Jibran Saithi March 19, 2006
#8 Posted by wain on February 4, 2007 12:43:52 pm
Dear Jibran
I went through your article and it was quite informative and educative. It certainly helps in resurfacing Bulleh shah and his kalam after a gap of approx 300 years.
Furthermore, I have a suggestion to submit that there are not so many individuals those enjoy command over the english language. I felt your this article a bit hard and heavy to digest without the help of some big size dictionary. The aim should be to educate the people in simple words so taht they can understand the message. Please consider this factor once you put the next article in air.
Thanks
I went through your article and it was quite informative and educative. It certainly helps in resurfacing Bulleh shah and his kalam after a gap of approx 300 years.
Furthermore, I have a suggestion to submit that there are not so many individuals those enjoy command over the english language. I felt your this article a bit hard and heavy to digest without the help of some big size dictionary. The aim should be to educate the people in simple words so taht they can understand the message. Please consider this factor once you put the next article in air.
Thanks
#7 Posted by hassansiddiqi on March 22, 2006 10:22:28 am
Re: # 6
Jibran,
I like the way you put it. I think sometimes people mix up modernization and westernization. Sometimes its really hard to tell the difference between the two.
What if Bullah`s shrine was converted into a center for sufi learnings? Would you consider that to be distasteful? Because I think Bullah would have loved that idea. He was all about spreading ``the message``. Tell me what you think.
Rgds,
Hassan
Jibran,
I like the way you put it. I think sometimes people mix up modernization and westernization. Sometimes its really hard to tell the difference between the two.
What if Bullah`s shrine was converted into a center for sufi learnings? Would you consider that to be distasteful? Because I think Bullah would have loved that idea. He was all about spreading ``the message``. Tell me what you think.
Rgds,
Hassan
#6 Posted by jibran_saithi on March 22, 2006 3:31:31 am
I take your point - and i agree that Rabbi`s music (which i find very interesting myself!) is exactly the reinterpretation of our heritage that should be going on. I`m certainly not against globalization per se, and i think just taking position on the debate washes away so much of the nuance that must, of necessity be considered when we think about how our past should be celebrated and indeed incorporated into our present.
But my issue comes with the fact that we seem to think of imported culture, or as i would argue, the superficial veneer of imported culture to be superior (and thus worthy of subsuming) our own heritage. When it comes to globalization, we dont want to take up the liberal, pluralistic values of the `west` for example--which should be something we learn-- even though i think it was something very much a part of our own traditions; those we remain so oblivious to.
And there i think lies the issue- the desecration of Bulle shah`s ideology is really driven by a blind apathy, which is worrying and ultimately a shame.
#5 Posted by adityapant on March 22, 2006 2:37:04 am
Dear Jibran
Thanks for a very moving article. Your translation of Bulle Shah`s verses makes me want to buy a CD of Rabbi Shergill. Now, is not that an excellent example of globalisation, where culture can be presented/sold as a commodity with slick marketing.
In listening to the CD, lost in the lyrics, one may believe that we are connected with Bulle Shah of the ages... till the track ends.
And where does that leave us? What is culture...can we try and define it as a nonelastic intangible which is represented by us as our past and present ? We endow it with mystical qualities, at times seeking to protect/defend it, at times propogate and less and less often, challenge it.
In my hometown in Uttaranchal (a new state in the Indian Himalayas,carved out of Uttar Pradesh) there was an old temple made of stone. Bare black stone in the typical Kumaoni style (Kumaon and Garhwal being the two main historical regions) with a wooden crown. Over the years I have seen it being transformed...the small temple complex being gradually enlarged, marble and granite flooring laid, the entire temple cemented and painted in saffron, yellow. Colours that, to me, represent the spread of orthodox Hinduism of the plains rather than the easygoing type that the hills are known for. Loudspeakers, hitherto unknown and unused for religious practices, became the norm with night long jaagrans (staying up all night singing songs) being blared over the PA system. I mourn the lost simplicity of my village temple as I mourn for Kasur andd Bulle Shah`s shrine.
And that where I think you miss the point in your essay. The challenge to Kasur is not posed by modernity or globalisation..the latter may well be used to commodify its heritage and (re)present it in a new fashion for consumption by a new generation..though many may decry it.
The greater challenge is the one to the heritage of composite culture that Bulle Shah represents posed by interpretations of Islam that seeks to marginalise the South Asian heritage.
Its a telling comment on CHOWK, where arguments descend into invective and abuse, the focus is on upstaging the Indian or the Pakistani ...and where a very thought provoking essay on our shared heritage is ignored.
Aditya
Thanks for a very moving article. Your translation of Bulle Shah`s verses makes me want to buy a CD of Rabbi Shergill. Now, is not that an excellent example of globalisation, where culture can be presented/sold as a commodity with slick marketing.
In listening to the CD, lost in the lyrics, one may believe that we are connected with Bulle Shah of the ages... till the track ends.
And where does that leave us? What is culture...can we try and define it as a nonelastic intangible which is represented by us as our past and present ? We endow it with mystical qualities, at times seeking to protect/defend it, at times propogate and less and less often, challenge it.
In my hometown in Uttaranchal (a new state in the Indian Himalayas,carved out of Uttar Pradesh) there was an old temple made of stone. Bare black stone in the typical Kumaoni style (Kumaon and Garhwal being the two main historical regions) with a wooden crown. Over the years I have seen it being transformed...the small temple complex being gradually enlarged, marble and granite flooring laid, the entire temple cemented and painted in saffron, yellow. Colours that, to me, represent the spread of orthodox Hinduism of the plains rather than the easygoing type that the hills are known for. Loudspeakers, hitherto unknown and unused for religious practices, became the norm with night long jaagrans (staying up all night singing songs) being blared over the PA system. I mourn the lost simplicity of my village temple as I mourn for Kasur andd Bulle Shah`s shrine.
And that where I think you miss the point in your essay. The challenge to Kasur is not posed by modernity or globalisation..the latter may well be used to commodify its heritage and (re)present it in a new fashion for consumption by a new generation..though many may decry it.
The greater challenge is the one to the heritage of composite culture that Bulle Shah represents posed by interpretations of Islam that seeks to marginalise the South Asian heritage.
Its a telling comment on CHOWK, where arguments descend into invective and abuse, the focus is on upstaging the Indian or the Pakistani ...and where a very thought provoking essay on our shared heritage is ignored.
Aditya
#4 Posted by hassansiddiqi on March 21, 2006 3:40:01 pm
Re: # 3
I beg to differ. Globalization is not some sort of conspiracy or ``trap`` to trick poor people. It is a phenomenon that is happening all over the world. Globalisation cannot be ``stopped`` by anyone. Its just a state of affairs. So lets try and deal with it. And who says we are not selfish? Every country in this world is selfish because every country has certain self interests. So we have to find a way to prosper in this environment of globalisation. Why can`t we have Fortune 100 corporations in Pakistan? Why can`t Bullah be celebrated with a modern monument? Why is modernity considered ``plastic``? Romanticising things of the past has never bore any real fruit. We have to change with the times and preserve our heritage at the same time, which we are doing. Whether it is with a skyscraping monument or a simple tombstone is irrelevant.
I beg to differ. Globalization is not some sort of conspiracy or ``trap`` to trick poor people. It is a phenomenon that is happening all over the world. Globalisation cannot be ``stopped`` by anyone. Its just a state of affairs. So lets try and deal with it. And who says we are not selfish? Every country in this world is selfish because every country has certain self interests. So we have to find a way to prosper in this environment of globalisation. Why can`t we have Fortune 100 corporations in Pakistan? Why can`t Bullah be celebrated with a modern monument? Why is modernity considered ``plastic``? Romanticising things of the past has never bore any real fruit. We have to change with the times and preserve our heritage at the same time, which we are doing. Whether it is with a skyscraping monument or a simple tombstone is irrelevant.
#3 Posted by Zeena on March 19, 2006 4:53:27 pm
Dear writer
Yes, you are so very right Globalization has killed our pure cultural values. Not only that it has made rich the richest and poor the poorest. Globalization is actually a trap for Pakistani and other thrid world poor people by superpowers for their own selfish motives and advantages. We don`t realise we are giving away our very own selves in this trade of globalization. Sad haan
Yes, you are so very right Globalization has killed our pure cultural values. Not only that it has made rich the richest and poor the poorest. Globalization is actually a trap for Pakistani and other thrid world poor people by superpowers for their own selfish motives and advantages. We don`t realise we are giving away our very own selves in this trade of globalization. Sad haan
#2 Posted by joieya on March 19, 2006 4:02:33 pm
Bulleh Shohh nain marna naheen
Goar payoo koi hooar
So what r u searching in the grave!!!
#1 Posted by kabuliwallah on March 19, 2006 12:53:11 pm
Jibran,
I do not know if the marble edifice you speak about is a new addition, but when I visited Baba Bulleh Shah`s shrine in 2000, it was relatively simple in a quiet and narrow street barely enough for a Toyota Hilux to fit in. There were very few people around unlike Ajmer or Data Darbar, with strings of jasmine flowers laid on the sarcophagus. The floor tiles were made of black and white granite. The shrine containing the sarcophagus was very small, just enough to hold maybe 7-8 people. The only people milling around seemed to be caretakers and a few charsis near the entrance. Maybe something has changed drastically since then. Then again I went on a weekday at around noon time.
I was surprised then that the greatest saint in India`s history (in my opinion anyway; his message is what I think true religion is about; concerned with the self as religion should be and to hell with conversions and politics) is buried almost unnoticed by the religious hordes that usually throng such places. But maybe that is how he would have wanted it, without all the tamasha, spectacle and hysteria usually attached to the graves of mystics. If the situation has changed as you describe it, it is indeed a sad state of affairs
regards
I do not know if the marble edifice you speak about is a new addition, but when I visited Baba Bulleh Shah`s shrine in 2000, it was relatively simple in a quiet and narrow street barely enough for a Toyota Hilux to fit in. There were very few people around unlike Ajmer or Data Darbar, with strings of jasmine flowers laid on the sarcophagus. The floor tiles were made of black and white granite. The shrine containing the sarcophagus was very small, just enough to hold maybe 7-8 people. The only people milling around seemed to be caretakers and a few charsis near the entrance. Maybe something has changed drastically since then. Then again I went on a weekday at around noon time.
I was surprised then that the greatest saint in India`s history (in my opinion anyway; his message is what I think true religion is about; concerned with the self as religion should be and to hell with conversions and politics) is buried almost unnoticed by the religious hordes that usually throng such places. But maybe that is how he would have wanted it, without all the tamasha, spectacle and hysteria usually attached to the graves of mystics. If the situation has changed as you describe it, it is indeed a sad state of affairs
regards
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