Kaura S Mitha November 23, 2005
#17 Posted by delhiwala on December 5, 2005 11:43:45 am
Re: # 5
Who exactly is a Bhapa?
Is non Jatt a Bhapa?
Then all of the Sikh Gurus would be Bhapas?
Who exactly is a Bhapa?
Is non Jatt a Bhapa?
Then all of the Sikh Gurus would be Bhapas?
#16 Posted by dost_mittar on December 5, 2005 6:45:55 am
Layman#15:
Most certainly going by the expanding definition of ``bhapa`` but, just like me, he probably never considered himself as one.
Most certainly going by the expanding definition of ``bhapa`` but, just like me, he probably never considered himself as one.
#15 Posted by Layman on December 5, 2005 4:44:46 am
Interesting. Would PM Manmohan Singh be considered a bhapa?
#14 Posted by kaurasach on December 1, 2005 1:08:13 pm
I went to Mandi (HP) and saw that the paharis throng the Bhapa shops.....the locals dont bother going into others` shop. In Bangkok, they are extremely successful....
I guess with money comes arrogance.....many of them are extremely rude.....In chandigarh, the Bhapa had the most successful shop in our sector. he was so rude that I went to other sectors to get my grocery..........
he would cuss at poor folks who just wanted small amount or a few things, and throw them out of the shop.....(An acquaintance of mine who has strong muscular build would drive the Bhapa up the wall.....The Bhapa would fume and turn red......but he didnt dare say anything....he would start throwing stuff at us.....then he would give up and tell his assistant to deal with us....) - same thing happened routinely at a Bhapa`s shop in Bangkok. He also ran a motel I stayed at......I heard him yell at customers.....most of them left without buying......he didn`t care he was rich......
These days, now that Jats and others who have adopted the business life, display the same traits that they scorned the Bhapas for.........
Master Tara Singh was a Hindu from Rawalpindi who converted to sikhi as a young man.....
The most successfull businessmen from N India and govts. jobs are all Bhapas. They have excelled in almost every sphere even before partition......Pothohar has contributed great figures to India and Punjab...........
I guess with money comes arrogance.....many of them are extremely rude.....In chandigarh, the Bhapa had the most successful shop in our sector. he was so rude that I went to other sectors to get my grocery..........
he would cuss at poor folks who just wanted small amount or a few things, and throw them out of the shop.....(An acquaintance of mine who has strong muscular build would drive the Bhapa up the wall.....The Bhapa would fume and turn red......but he didnt dare say anything....he would start throwing stuff at us.....then he would give up and tell his assistant to deal with us....) - same thing happened routinely at a Bhapa`s shop in Bangkok. He also ran a motel I stayed at......I heard him yell at customers.....most of them left without buying......he didn`t care he was rich......
These days, now that Jats and others who have adopted the business life, display the same traits that they scorned the Bhapas for.........
Master Tara Singh was a Hindu from Rawalpindi who converted to sikhi as a young man.....
The most successfull businessmen from N India and govts. jobs are all Bhapas. They have excelled in almost every sphere even before partition......Pothohar has contributed great figures to India and Punjab...........
#13 Posted by mannyd on December 1, 2005 8:04:26 am
DM #13:
Thank you Bhapa DM Sahib. I was surprised at the negativity ascribed to Bhapas.
I am from a sleepy little town in Punjab and I saw the incremetal growth in Bhapa retail businesses every year like an unfolding movie. They paid attention to customers, separated haphazrad storage godowns from display of merchandize, provided seating areas and beverages to potential customers and mechanized displays on Diwali to attract gawking lookers. These things were unheard of in my town before 1947. `Unscrupulous practises` may be an epithet thrown by the lsoers, who could not compete in a free market.
Aman:
`Ik Bhapa, sau siapa`, never heard of that one before....LOL. However knowing Tara Singh, one could say that. He was the father of Punjabi Suba Morcha. Every spring he would go on a death unto fast, give up and then spend the following summer cleaning Sangat`s shoes.
Thank you Bhapa DM Sahib. I was surprised at the negativity ascribed to Bhapas.
I am from a sleepy little town in Punjab and I saw the incremetal growth in Bhapa retail businesses every year like an unfolding movie. They paid attention to customers, separated haphazrad storage godowns from display of merchandize, provided seating areas and beverages to potential customers and mechanized displays on Diwali to attract gawking lookers. These things were unheard of in my town before 1947. `Unscrupulous practises` may be an epithet thrown by the lsoers, who could not compete in a free market.
Aman:
`Ik Bhapa, sau siapa`, never heard of that one before....LOL. However knowing Tara Singh, one could say that. He was the father of Punjabi Suba Morcha. Every spring he would go on a death unto fast, give up and then spend the following summer cleaning Sangat`s shoes.
#12 Posted by dost_mittar on December 1, 2005 6:03:48 am
mannyd:
``Words change their meanings with time. When I was growing up Bhapa referred to both Hindu or Sikh refugee from West Punjab. Other refugees were Multani, Jhangi, Bahawalpuri, Sindhi or Blauchi but Bhapa referred to the areas you mentioned.`
The meaning does change and it has changed even more than you indicated. While growing up in Karol Bagh, that citadel of refugees from Pakistan, bhapa referred to sikhs from Rawalpindi, Master Tara Singh being the most prominent one. Then the meaning was modified to all Khatris from Rawalpindi and the term extended to all of the pothowar, even though most of them had never heard the term, pothowar. I never thought that I would be included among `bhapas` one day even though my younger brother has always called me `bhapaji` and I called my older brother `bhapaji` as well. By the new definition, almost the entire Karol Bagh would be considered bhapas.
``Words change their meanings with time. When I was growing up Bhapa referred to both Hindu or Sikh refugee from West Punjab. Other refugees were Multani, Jhangi, Bahawalpuri, Sindhi or Blauchi but Bhapa referred to the areas you mentioned.`
The meaning does change and it has changed even more than you indicated. While growing up in Karol Bagh, that citadel of refugees from Pakistan, bhapa referred to sikhs from Rawalpindi, Master Tara Singh being the most prominent one. Then the meaning was modified to all Khatris from Rawalpindi and the term extended to all of the pothowar, even though most of them had never heard the term, pothowar. I never thought that I would be included among `bhapas` one day even though my younger brother has always called me `bhapaji` and I called my older brother `bhapaji` as well. By the new definition, almost the entire Karol Bagh would be considered bhapas.
#11 Posted by mannyd on November 30, 2005 8:20:52 pm
Kaura Sinhaya: Nice writeup. I was born and raised on the east side of Punjab and my family was fortunate to escape the 47 Ghalukara. hOwever I am related through marriage with five Bhape families, both Hindu and Sikhs.
Words change their meanings with time. When I was growing up Bhapa referred to both Hindu or Sikh refugee from West Punjab. Other refugees were Multani, Jhangi, Bahawalpuri, Sindhi or Blauchi but Bhapa referred to the areas you mentioned.
Going thru schools, I had Bhape classmates, Bhape school teachers, Professors, Principles, Deans and colleagues. I knew what the Bhapes had gone through, but not once they bemoaned their ill fate or cursed their `watan` in classes. The little small businesses they started were named after Pehawar, Mardan , Lahore, Ravi and Chenab etc. Some of them might have money, but I have been told by my parents how trees were stripped bare of their fruit, leaves and bark for food and fuel around refugee camps.
Your observation about Bhapa business acumen is 100% right on the money. The East Punjabi Bumpkins wondered with wide mouthed wonder at their fortitude, hard work and faith in themselves.
They might have been joked about in the early fifties but the laughter was gone in less than ten years.
Anyhow thanks for providing a different perspective.
Words change their meanings with time. When I was growing up Bhapa referred to both Hindu or Sikh refugee from West Punjab. Other refugees were Multani, Jhangi, Bahawalpuri, Sindhi or Blauchi but Bhapa referred to the areas you mentioned.
Going thru schools, I had Bhape classmates, Bhape school teachers, Professors, Principles, Deans and colleagues. I knew what the Bhapes had gone through, but not once they bemoaned their ill fate or cursed their `watan` in classes. The little small businesses they started were named after Pehawar, Mardan , Lahore, Ravi and Chenab etc. Some of them might have money, but I have been told by my parents how trees were stripped bare of their fruit, leaves and bark for food and fuel around refugee camps.
Your observation about Bhapa business acumen is 100% right on the money. The East Punjabi Bumpkins wondered with wide mouthed wonder at their fortitude, hard work and faith in themselves.
They might have been joked about in the early fifties but the laughter was gone in less than ten years.
Anyhow thanks for providing a different perspective.
#10 Posted by kaurasach on November 29, 2005 11:33:42 am
I see that the title has been changed.....it was submitted under ``BHAPA``.
probably offensive though the word means brother or father......
I still use the word out of habit in front of bhapas but there is no malice or prejudice intended.....many of them dont mind and use bhapa for each other too....
probably offensive though the word means brother or father......
I still use the word out of habit in front of bhapas but there is no malice or prejudice intended.....many of them dont mind and use bhapa for each other too....
#9 Posted by kaurasach on November 29, 2005 11:20:32 am
DM ji,
this happened in 89. only a few years after the riots. many bhapas suffered a lot. or there could be another reason for his poverty....
even non bhapas out of Punjab keep orthodox appearance....I am sure he was a bhapa....almost all the sikh residents were bhapas or W Pbis.
AS,
Bhapas marry their maternal cousins.....actually prefer them even today....times have changed though......even in the young generations .... it happens often.....
their behavior outside the Golden Temple was one reason I was ticked at them.....
they say `saunh guru di`.........before lying thru their teeth to sell......without scruples.
this happened in 89. only a few years after the riots. many bhapas suffered a lot. or there could be another reason for his poverty....
even non bhapas out of Punjab keep orthodox appearance....I am sure he was a bhapa....almost all the sikh residents were bhapas or W Pbis.
AS,
Bhapas marry their maternal cousins.....actually prefer them even today....times have changed though......even in the young generations .... it happens often.....
their behavior outside the Golden Temple was one reason I was ticked at them.....
they say `saunh guru di`.........before lying thru their teeth to sell......without scruples.
#8 Posted by kaurasach on November 29, 2005 11:13:45 am
The incident is 100% true - with minor changes......
Almost ALL Bhapas are rich - though some are of humble origins......
Mostly, I had negative experience with Bhapas thus the negative and cynical image......
Now that I know many of them closely, they display some remarkable and admirable qualities, along with the `negative` ones......
Almost ALL Bhapas are rich - though some are of humble origins......
Mostly, I had negative experience with Bhapas thus the negative and cynical image......
Now that I know many of them closely, they display some remarkable and admirable qualities, along with the `negative` ones......
#6 Posted by Succubus on November 25, 2005 3:33:40 am
...... A nice read kauray.
An colleague had encountered something similar outside the lahore airport... inspite of being constantly warned against the ``thaggs`` scattered all over the place, he ended up being escorted by a suspected ``thagg`` half way through his journey home.
And when he related the story of the ``angelic thagg`` to his family, a jeering tone called out ``Oye chek karleNRa see... kujj kho kay te nayi legeya... tennu pata vee nayi lagaNR ditta... `` which was followed by a humiliating check through all his travel bags........
....Funny. Yet sad.
But then again.. it was the ``thaggs`` who robbed another acquaintance of 85,000 rupees.
..........who`s to blame?
An colleague had encountered something similar outside the lahore airport... inspite of being constantly warned against the ``thaggs`` scattered all over the place, he ended up being escorted by a suspected ``thagg`` half way through his journey home.
And when he related the story of the ``angelic thagg`` to his family, a jeering tone called out ``Oye chek karleNRa see... kujj kho kay te nayi legeya... tennu pata vee nayi lagaNR ditta... `` which was followed by a humiliating check through all his travel bags........
....Funny. Yet sad.
But then again.. it was the ``thaggs`` who robbed another acquaintance of 85,000 rupees.
..........who`s to blame?
#5 Posted by amansandhu on November 25, 2005 2:50:19 am
Bhapas do not marry first cousins. There are many bhapas in Amritsars also. There is a saying ``ek bhapa, sau siapa``. In Amritsar many bhapas have businesses around the golden temple.They start the day with prayers at the temple.They are very industrious. Bhapas normally are well off, infact you will find many saying that it is not difficult to make money.[ paise kamoyan we koi aukha ne] Not all bhapas are money minded, I had bhapa friends who were not money minded at all.Of course that is a rarity.
#4 Posted by dost_mittar on November 24, 2005 6:23:05 pm
Good attempt, Kaura!
I believe it is a piece of fiction as it is unlikely to see a `bhapa` on cycle these days.
BTW bhapas do not marry paternal cousins, in fact, they do not traditionally marry within the same sub-caste. There is less taboo in marrying maternal cousins, but that too is frowned upon.
I believe it is a piece of fiction as it is unlikely to see a `bhapa` on cycle these days.
BTW bhapas do not marry paternal cousins, in fact, they do not traditionally marry within the same sub-caste. There is less taboo in marrying maternal cousins, but that too is frowned upon.
#3 Posted by subroto on November 24, 2005 5:38:23 pm
Nicely done. The transition from the nagging suspicion to remorse was very well conveyed.
#2 Posted by rahulmal on November 23, 2005 11:00:48 pm
The lack of conveyance, suspicion of the stranger, inability to pedal the bicycle, thoughts of `compensating` the stranger for his generosity - the emotions are captured very neatly. I guess this is not 100% fiction :-)
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