Saving the Female Fetus

#120 i favor abolition of ``arranged marriage`` itself..the source of all centralized planning, its time girls kissed some frogs ;-)

#119 Jang: Of course I agree. Murder is not the same thing as abortion. I favor the free market approach to fixing the dowry problem rather than government meddling into it. Dowry is a problem and becoming worse. Daughters shold be allowed to contest their parents` estate and could use legislative help in that regard.

Manny various,

i think the issues of dowry-death and that of gender selective abortion are different. if a woman comes into a ``party`` and declares that she is pregnant, she is asked by the women if its a boy, then they do a khusur-phusur about if she did something ``special`` and she then she give that special doctors number.

a dowry death is not so..the dead womans sasural dont give out instructions about best kerosene shop. its all hush-hush, many times they even leave town.

so, while a significant stigma exists in middle-class about killing of a bahu, this is not so about gender-selective abortion. additionally, boys are desired due to other reason of carrying the family name as well, and not just for dowry-avoidance.

given this, its very easy to have a highly skewed ratio using the ultrasound.

aleph pointed out that in future some other techniques will be available.. but hopefully by then the extreme pressure felt for need of a male child will be less.

#114 Majumdar Sahib: My full statement was:

``Now Mr. DM, using emotive slogans is asking for state planning, control and use of `British methods` to implement baby production and dowry regulation.``

Please address the problem of dowry, parents`choice to determine their baby`s gender and the probability determination of ratio for each state and region. Moreover the ratios can wander all over the place from year to year anyways.

Why do the Chowkies want to interfere in a couple`s choice if they are not willing to pay a red cent towards the dowry? It is no skin off my nose if Sanket is what he is or how he got into this world.

# 116: intellibent = some one of an intelligent bent of mind.

#114: What are those probabilities? The demand for 1000/1000 ratio was by an intellibent Chowki earlier. Why are the ratios in post #107 all over the place?
What was the objective of this ratio anyway?
A planner knows better what to produce than the parents?
What are the Dowry laws?

# 109: ``Hope you don`t use this term again for it underscores the gravity of the issue.``

Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing
Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing
Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing
Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing
Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing, Eveteasing and Eve....
Hold on, I am catching my breath.
teasing.
Sorry, I had to get it off my chest.

Mannyd

(Chowkies want 1000 females for 1000 males but no one seems worried that the ratio in Europe over decades has been where it is in India right now. What would you have couples do? Conjugate under the watchful eyes of `Ratio Polce`? )

Chowkies want male-female ratio to be determined by laws of probability- thats all. Not decided by sex selective abortions or by Ratio Police.

Regards

DullaBhatti: That was a moving poem by the unborn daughter but not quite so moving as the song by Surinder Kaur:
`Ni kankaN Lammia DhiaN kioN Jammiaan ne maE....`

(Why did you give birth to me O mother, when my brothers and their wives are so cold and unloving towards me).
It was very sad to read about the dowry problem of an educated girl in Amritsar. There was a window of time right up to early eighties when it was the only Ram Baan of dowry. That has been at least my extended family`s experience.

Several posts: I am all for freedom of speech as long as you speak my thoughts.
I am all for pro-choice, as long as you choose what I tell you to choose.
I am all for pro-choice, as long as it is done blind-folded.
There ia a definite asymmetry in attitudes towards females v/s males. It needs to be fixed, starting with people on Chowk.
Equal education, equal job opportunities, equal inheritance and uniform laws for all citizens is a must. It just makes sense. None of this personal Muslim Laws and personal Jaini Laws for different groups.
Chowkies speak with revulsion of `Bought brides` but no one talks about `Bought Giglows`.
Chowkies speak with clenched fists about heinous crimes of `female feticide` but noone is too worried about abortions in general.
Chowkies want 1000 females for 1000 males but no one seems worried that the ratio in Europe over decades has been where it is in India right now. What would you have couples do? Conjugate under the watchful eyes of `Ratio Polce`?

Anyone who thinks that asymmetry does not describe the attitude of all male Chowkies is a `Sala Haraamzada` and can address me as Jija Ji from now on.)

#102 Jang: `there is little social sanction towards infanticide..what with all the nosy neighbors. and with girls going to school (or going out of the house), ..`

You maybe right. Teachers can inspect the girls without clothes visually and digitally for any signs of abuse or lumps. Yes that should work. Of course if it is male teachers, they should work in pairs.

If they do find sign of abuse, what do they do, write DM an e-mail? He can handle probably a few cases, but eventually we might need a small `Bureau of female student welfare`, No?

By the way were there any Dowry deaths in plush ChandiGarh or South Delhi ever? If you had told me thirty years ago that people will murder for dowry, I would not have believed you, but it is happening.

What are the Dowry Laws anyway? Do you know them?

To paraphrase Tagore:

``Where the clear stream of reason
has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of empty slogans and Narebazi;
Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action
Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country`s Chowkies awake.``
I do not care too much for Pakis, they are too far gone anyway.

EinsteinWallah #105: ``If value of female child were to go up with their declining numbers then that should have happened in 1700s and 1800s. But it did not happen.``

Please explain why did it happen now and not then? Is it the hole in the Ozone layer this time or is it some planetory alignment or maybe the report was .....?

Agree with you on the British methods. Wonderful people the Englishmen were!
Can we use these methods for sitiuations, where they are really needed, like on terrorism promoters and sympathisers. No need to use them to regulate private speculation in marriages. There will be a real change in attitude only when you read that a desperate father unable to meet the `Mehar` demands killed his three sons and their mother and then commited suicide.


``The idea that because of this national integration is quickening its pace is just laughable.``

Not exactly my words, but why is it laughable? Please explain the joke so I can laugh with you.
The immediate relief is given to Jharkahndi brides families with cash. The Haryanwi F/M ratio has thus trickled down to JharKhand. This will provide relief from dowry demands for other Jharkhandi brides to be. To hasten the process keep the central palnners and analysts out of the loop and decriminalize the ultrasound tests.

The central planners failed miserably in Moscow. They were telling peasants in Ukraine what to plant and what to sell to the state at what prices. Those who defied the planners ended up in Gulag, causing famines, widespread misery and death of millions. Now Mr. DM, using emotive slogans is asking for state planning, control and use of `British methods` to implement baby production and dowry regulation.

This is no reflection on DM. Indeed his cousin and wife may be the devils incarnate. I just do not like hyperbolic exaggerations in `snuffing of lives` and `loss of whole generation`. Moreover I do`nt think he or anyother human being is capable of controlling what he is asking for.

Please explain the numbers, you posted in #107. What does it all mean?
I agree with the rest of your post, but it is a different topic.

Dost-Mittar, truely an article that needed to be written. About a year and a half ago, I was reading a report brought out by the Punjab govt on this issue. The report contained a survey of women who had indulged in female foeticide. Surprisingly, the number one reason these women gave for such a heinous crime was the importance of the continuation of the family line/name! This figured above dowry. These women however, may not have been completely honest for various reasons. What was also very interesting was that education had no correlation with female foeticide.

The govt has been trying to create awareness through the media and health workers, but to no avail. The issue is centered around the way society views women. Even if stricter measures against female foeticide are put in place, the girls who are born, will still be unwanted girls who will never be treated at par with the men. It`s the whole attitude that needs changing-an attitude that treats women like property. I`m sure you know that this crime is committed by the diaspora community as well.

Kabuliwallah #20, By using the word `eve-teasing` you make light of something as serious as sexual harassment/molestation of women on the streets. Hope you don`t use this term again for it underscores the gravity of the issue. And yes, it does seem to be more prevalent in north india.

Re: # 99

Ditto to nb`s post.

I strongly believe in pro-choice.

Following data from Indian census website (URL: http://www.censusindia.net/fsex.html):

Female Sex Ratio (Excluding J & K)
Number of Females / Thousand Males
India 927
Rural 939
Urban 894
State with Highest Female Sex Ratio Kerala 1036
State with Lowest Female Sex Ratio Arunachal Pradesh 859
UT with Highest Female Sex Ratio Pondicherry 979
UT with Lowest Female Sex Ratio Chandigarh 790
District with Highest Female Sex Ratio Ratnagiri (Maharashtra) 1205
District with Lowest Female Sex Ratio Dibang Valley (Arunachal Pradesh) 788

Data Source : 1991 Census of India

Jang, in general I`d agree that if X is forbidden people would find Y, ergo X should be allowed is a weak argument. However, which aspect of gender-selective abortion are you going to forbid? Ultrasound tests? Disclosing to the parents the gender of the foetus? Abortion? Each of these could be done by a different medical technician/physician. If there`s a will, there`s a way.
Bride burning is a crime with a low bar of proof. Yet it continues and grows. You don`t cure the sickness of a society by having strictures against it. Make it shameful, educate the people. Problem with our government is passing laws is the be all and end all. How has that changed anything? Middle-class avarice if anything has increased and bride burning is very much a middle-class phenomenon.