Zalan Alam August 27, 2006
#409 Posted by nakhok on November 16, 2006 7:14:38 pm
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 11 17 story_17-11-2006_pg3_5
Daily Times, Lahore, Pakistan
Friday, November 17, 2006
Bhashani: the man that was
By Afzal Khan
.....[Maulana Bhasani] was ... builder of politics of democratic opposition in the post-partition era and on June 24, 1949, founded the first viable opposition party - the East Pakistan Awami Muslim League (EPAML). He remained a central figure and both a maker and shaker of events, particularly during the most turbulent phase in East Pakistani politics, before and after 1971.
The EPAML was a reaction to the machinations of the Muslim League establishment under Nawabzada Liaquat Ali Khan and Khaleequz Zaman who, in complicity with Nawabs of Dhaka and the Bengali aristocracy worked to vilify and marginalise authentic Bengali leaders and top figures of Pakistan movement like Hussain Shaheed Suharwardy, Maulvi Fazlul Haq, the mover of Lahore Resolution and Bhashani. They were branded as traitors. Liaquat called Suharwady a ``mad dog let loose by India``.
Neither Bhashani nor Suharwardy immediately returned to Pakistan after partition to claim their share in power. Bhashani remained in Assam to protect Bengali settlers against persecution and expulsion while Suharwardy stayed in Calcutta as the prime minister of undivided Bengal to stop the terrible Hindu-Muslim bloodbath. On his return, Suharwardy was divested of the membership of the Constituent Assembly and banned from addressing any public rally. Bhashani`s election to the provincial assembly in a by-election was annulled by the governor who also disqualified him until 1950. Thus every trick in the book was used to derail the growth of democracy in the formative years of Pakistan.
In the 1954 provincial election, Bhashani, along with Suharwardy and Fazlul Haq, formed a United Front of six political parties that won a landslide victory nearly obliterating the Muslim League which could secure only seven seats in the 300-member assembly. This time the Ghulam Mohammad-Ayub-Sikandar Mirza axis conspired to nullify popular mandate and dismissed the Fazlul Haq government on sedition charges for asserting East Pakistan`s demand for provincial autonomy. The die was cast for the disintegration of Pakistan. .....
Daily Times, Lahore, Pakistan
Friday, November 17, 2006
Bhashani: the man that was
By Afzal Khan
.....[Maulana Bhasani] was ... builder of politics of democratic opposition in the post-partition era and on June 24, 1949, founded the first viable opposition party - the East Pakistan Awami Muslim League (EPAML). He remained a central figure and both a maker and shaker of events, particularly during the most turbulent phase in East Pakistani politics, before and after 1971.
The EPAML was a reaction to the machinations of the Muslim League establishment under Nawabzada Liaquat Ali Khan and Khaleequz Zaman who, in complicity with Nawabs of Dhaka and the Bengali aristocracy worked to vilify and marginalise authentic Bengali leaders and top figures of Pakistan movement like Hussain Shaheed Suharwardy, Maulvi Fazlul Haq, the mover of Lahore Resolution and Bhashani. They were branded as traitors. Liaquat called Suharwady a ``mad dog let loose by India``.
Neither Bhashani nor Suharwardy immediately returned to Pakistan after partition to claim their share in power. Bhashani remained in Assam to protect Bengali settlers against persecution and expulsion while Suharwardy stayed in Calcutta as the prime minister of undivided Bengal to stop the terrible Hindu-Muslim bloodbath. On his return, Suharwardy was divested of the membership of the Constituent Assembly and banned from addressing any public rally. Bhashani`s election to the provincial assembly in a by-election was annulled by the governor who also disqualified him until 1950. Thus every trick in the book was used to derail the growth of democracy in the formative years of Pakistan.
In the 1954 provincial election, Bhashani, along with Suharwardy and Fazlul Haq, formed a United Front of six political parties that won a landslide victory nearly obliterating the Muslim League which could secure only seven seats in the 300-member assembly. This time the Ghulam Mohammad-Ayub-Sikandar Mirza axis conspired to nullify popular mandate and dismissed the Fazlul Haq government on sedition charges for asserting East Pakistan`s demand for provincial autonomy. The die was cast for the disintegration of Pakistan. .....
#408 Posted by HasanMahmood on September 5, 2006 8:12:38 am
Re: # 323
Nasah, I do agree that Pakistan would not have achieved as much as it did had it not been for 9-11. But my only point is that people are so upset at the killing of Bugti that they forget that Baluchistan was a different country in Pakistan. There was a different law and order situation and Bugti was nothing more than a Saddam wannabe. All he did was keep people from education and basic needs and keeping the wealth to himself. If you were not a Baloch you could not enter baluchistan without fearing for your life. These politicians who are crying right now are happy deep inside becaue they know that they could not have stood up to him. These people shout for democracy but what what has democracy given us except Surray Palace and Raiwand estate to name a few. I lived in Karachi during Zia regime and in Bhutto`s and nawaz`a rule. Even though Karachi was not really booming in Zia`s times, during Bhutto`s and especially Nawaz`a times all the money was taken and was spent in Punjab (especiallt lahore). The end result was Karachi getting nothing and Lahore being developed at an extraordinary pace. So being a true pakistani and a karachiite I have only seen the worse those two have brought on this country. If you can give me one example of a good thing those two have done, I might change my mind (not that it might matter to you :)).
Nasah, I do agree that Pakistan would not have achieved as much as it did had it not been for 9-11. But my only point is that people are so upset at the killing of Bugti that they forget that Baluchistan was a different country in Pakistan. There was a different law and order situation and Bugti was nothing more than a Saddam wannabe. All he did was keep people from education and basic needs and keeping the wealth to himself. If you were not a Baloch you could not enter baluchistan without fearing for your life. These politicians who are crying right now are happy deep inside becaue they know that they could not have stood up to him. These people shout for democracy but what what has democracy given us except Surray Palace and Raiwand estate to name a few. I lived in Karachi during Zia regime and in Bhutto`s and nawaz`a rule. Even though Karachi was not really booming in Zia`s times, during Bhutto`s and especially Nawaz`a times all the money was taken and was spent in Punjab (especiallt lahore). The end result was Karachi getting nothing and Lahore being developed at an extraordinary pace. So being a true pakistani and a karachiite I have only seen the worse those two have brought on this country. If you can give me one example of a good thing those two have done, I might change my mind (not that it might matter to you :)).
#407 Posted by PewResearch on September 5, 2006 7:17:05 am
Re: # 352 Romair:
Romair:
What sort of charges are the torture victims typically accused of? Are these people being tortured for political/religious beliefs or for violations of the military code?
Romair:
What sort of charges are the torture victims typically accused of? Are these people being tortured for political/religious beliefs or for violations of the military code?
#406 Posted by bulleya on September 3, 2006 10:11:15 am
ijaz_gul...........to some extent you are correct. though not completely. much of what i belived in has been strengthened by this new insight into pakistani society. i would say i was correct on most things, previously. however, certain views have changed..........
- my view that the top tier of politicians are scoundrels has strengthened further, having seen their own second tier accuse them of such...........however, i have met quite a few in t second tier who are quite decent fellows......moreso than i expected......
- i always felt that the top tier of the military is a problem......however i never realizd how much of a problem......i didn`t realize the degradation of their ethics to the level i have seen now..........at the same time, i always felt that the military as an institution, at least at the lower level, is alright........that view has changed. the military, as an institution, has degenerated significantly........it is a bigger problem than i initially thought....
- i always felt the economy was growing well, under musharraf, and that proved correct. and my positive view of the private sector has strengthened further.......
- my views that the debate on religion and secularism in pakistan is of little interest to the public and politicians proved true........at the same time my view that pakistanis are, at heart, a non-theocratic state proved true also.........
etc. etc.
the two major changes of views are realizing that while i always thought musharraf should have left after three years, i didn`t realize how much of a liability he has become. primarily because, i didn`t realize, how ruthlessly he has destroyed any institution below him.......i still think he has (mostly) the correct ideas for pakistan, but his own illegitimacy has forced him to make too many comprimises.....
- the second change was the amount of disallusionment that exists in pakistan. i expected the society to be more upbeat about their future, now that the economy is doing well........but that was not the case.........
- my view that the top tier of politicians are scoundrels has strengthened further, having seen their own second tier accuse them of such...........however, i have met quite a few in t second tier who are quite decent fellows......moreso than i expected......
- i always felt that the top tier of the military is a problem......however i never realizd how much of a problem......i didn`t realize the degradation of their ethics to the level i have seen now..........at the same time, i always felt that the military as an institution, at least at the lower level, is alright........that view has changed. the military, as an institution, has degenerated significantly........it is a bigger problem than i initially thought....
- i always felt the economy was growing well, under musharraf, and that proved correct. and my positive view of the private sector has strengthened further.......
- my views that the debate on religion and secularism in pakistan is of little interest to the public and politicians proved true........at the same time my view that pakistanis are, at heart, a non-theocratic state proved true also.........
etc. etc.
the two major changes of views are realizing that while i always thought musharraf should have left after three years, i didn`t realize how much of a liability he has become. primarily because, i didn`t realize, how ruthlessly he has destroyed any institution below him.......i still think he has (mostly) the correct ideas for pakistan, but his own illegitimacy has forced him to make too many comprimises.....
- the second change was the amount of disallusionment that exists in pakistan. i expected the society to be more upbeat about their future, now that the economy is doing well........but that was not the case.........
#405 Posted by VRV on September 3, 2006 5:59:52 am
Re: # 404
Mr. Gul,
I noticed that u never crossed the line of decency (though I occasionally do for some unruly guys).
What u think is the course for the hoi polloi in Pakistan? As I understand there is no civic agenda but quasi-theocratic agenda in Pak. That kind of consciousness runs thru` elite and commners alike. Pl correct me if I am wrong.
I am a converter to Baloch sympathy after seeing the stone-age lives of some people in Balochistan. It seems that they live the way our Indus Valley people lived during 2500 BC. I dont see much difference between the settlements in Lothal, Dholavira and their stone hutments in Balochistan. Do you?
Regards,
Mr. Gul,
I noticed that u never crossed the line of decency (though I occasionally do for some unruly guys).
What u think is the course for the hoi polloi in Pakistan? As I understand there is no civic agenda but quasi-theocratic agenda in Pak. That kind of consciousness runs thru` elite and commners alike. Pl correct me if I am wrong.
I am a converter to Baloch sympathy after seeing the stone-age lives of some people in Balochistan. It seems that they live the way our Indus Valley people lived during 2500 BC. I dont see much difference between the settlements in Lothal, Dholavira and their stone hutments in Balochistan. Do you?
Regards,
#404 Posted by ijaz_gul on September 3, 2006 1:34:44 am
Romair,
I have seen you on chowk for a long time. For the most time you stood by the Pakistan Policies and supported them staunchly. It finally took a visit to Pakistan and association with writing a book that has caused a volte face. You claim to met many people in all tiers of establishment and have inside knowledge.
Yes I too am disappointed with the latest episode of Balochistan and my feelings are spelled in my views on un plugged, but as educated Pakistanis, we are not required to jump boats. Rather, we should be the voices of consience and reflect the true thoughts of the majority of our people.
Cherrios
I have seen you on chowk for a long time. For the most time you stood by the Pakistan Policies and supported them staunchly. It finally took a visit to Pakistan and association with writing a book that has caused a volte face. You claim to met many people in all tiers of establishment and have inside knowledge.
Yes I too am disappointed with the latest episode of Balochistan and my feelings are spelled in my views on un plugged, but as educated Pakistanis, we are not required to jump boats. Rather, we should be the voices of consience and reflect the true thoughts of the majority of our people.
Cherrios
#403 Posted by teshah on September 2, 2006 9:19:06 pm
Re: # 401
VRV
Thank you dear for your courteous and detailed reply. I loved Balochies for their valour and their courteous behaviour and sincerity of character despite their despise for Punjabies.
The semantics shown by DCO, Lasi, reminded me of a couplet of Ghalib:
``Chand tasaaweere butaan chan haseenon ke khatoot
Bahd marne ke mere ghar se yih samaan nikla``
Was all this just for a spectacle and a Rolex watch? After all he went through; he turned out to be
just a petty thief. Ibtida Mush, intiha Lasi. What a drama it was, ik chor ik shaheed. God bless the illustrious Bugti, he died like Hussein exposing the petty Yazeediat of the murderers.
VRV
Thank you dear for your courteous and detailed reply. I loved Balochies for their valour and their courteous behaviour and sincerity of character despite their despise for Punjabies.
The semantics shown by DCO, Lasi, reminded me of a couplet of Ghalib:
``Chand tasaaweere butaan chan haseenon ke khatoot
Bahd marne ke mere ghar se yih samaan nikla``
Was all this just for a spectacle and a Rolex watch? After all he went through; he turned out to be
just a petty thief. Ibtida Mush, intiha Lasi. What a drama it was, ik chor ik shaheed. God bless the illustrious Bugti, he died like Hussein exposing the petty Yazeediat of the murderers.
#402 Posted by bulleya on September 2, 2006 6:28:54 pm
soysauce...............``The torture - is it because of personal vendetta or is it more political and in ``national interest?``
of all the things that disappointed me in pakistan, this had to be the most disappointing. torture is normal in pakistan, in its jails. in fact, by law, prisoners are allowed to be beaten. and they are beaten black and blue. these are normal criminals. not the ones in for separatist movements or spies etc.......
what was the most depressing was the amount of torture in the military. i have lost a lot of respect for the military after this trip. go to any military station and you will see soldiers under trial, rotting in military jails, unnecessarily, for months and months.
the ones tortured specifically by the musharraf govt. fall into two categories. the first category are the politicians who are tortured in the sense that they are locked up in inhuman conditions for months. and some who are picked up and beaten up.
all the above i am 100% sure about......i saw it first hand........
then there are the ones who are heavily tortured. i think journalists who report on waziristan and us actions through pakistani base(s) etc. are tortured big time. one was killed and his body was found three months after he had disappeared. this is the general consensus.......
and i assume (not sure) that anyone whose name comes in any form on terrorism (actual or otherwise) must have been tortured heavily..........
p.s. i doubt one can compare any dictatorship of indira gandhi with that of musharraf.........musharraf is literally a one man show..........the only check on him is the press...........that`s it...........
of all the things that disappointed me in pakistan, this had to be the most disappointing. torture is normal in pakistan, in its jails. in fact, by law, prisoners are allowed to be beaten. and they are beaten black and blue. these are normal criminals. not the ones in for separatist movements or spies etc.......
what was the most depressing was the amount of torture in the military. i have lost a lot of respect for the military after this trip. go to any military station and you will see soldiers under trial, rotting in military jails, unnecessarily, for months and months.
the ones tortured specifically by the musharraf govt. fall into two categories. the first category are the politicians who are tortured in the sense that they are locked up in inhuman conditions for months. and some who are picked up and beaten up.
all the above i am 100% sure about......i saw it first hand........
then there are the ones who are heavily tortured. i think journalists who report on waziristan and us actions through pakistani base(s) etc. are tortured big time. one was killed and his body was found three months after he had disappeared. this is the general consensus.......
and i assume (not sure) that anyone whose name comes in any form on terrorism (actual or otherwise) must have been tortured heavily..........
p.s. i doubt one can compare any dictatorship of indira gandhi with that of musharraf.........musharraf is literally a one man show..........the only check on him is the press...........that`s it...........
#401 Posted by VRV on September 2, 2006 5:58:40 am
Re: # 400
To Mr. Shah & all concenrned:
Pl see http://dawn.com/2006/09/02/top1.htm and www.paktribue.com as well.
Abdul Samad Lasi is seen holding the wrist watch as a souvenir. What a disgusting sight! It looks like Musharraf is showing the contempt for Bugti thru` Lasi by such vulgar display of personal belongings after burying the dead! It looks like ``I`ve got him!`` expression on his face.
For a towering tribal like Bugti who lived for honour this is an anti-climax, no doubt!
To Mr. Shah & all concenrned:
Pl see http://dawn.com/2006/09/02/top1.htm and www.paktribue.com as well.
Abdul Samad Lasi is seen holding the wrist watch as a souvenir. What a disgusting sight! It looks like Musharraf is showing the contempt for Bugti thru` Lasi by such vulgar display of personal belongings after burying the dead! It looks like ``I`ve got him!`` expression on his face.
For a towering tribal like Bugti who lived for honour this is an anti-climax, no doubt!
#400 Posted by VRV on September 1, 2006 8:03:31 pm
Re: # 398
Respected Shah Saheb,
I have mixed feelings about Bugti`s career but as a leader with 50-odd years of political life he doesn`t deserve this dog`s death. Even if he had this death, he deserved a decent burial from his family members but NOT from his adversary Lasi as the solemnising official.
There was this hush-hush from Mushy`s admin. I mentioned this in my ilogs. They changed versions as there was groudswell of sympathy even from Mush`s own cronies like Shujaat, Kasuri & Mushahid not to mention the comments from Nawaz Sheriff and other political leaders. Even MMA is encashing the public resentment of Bugti`s murder by organising Strikes.
I saw the photos of the specatacles and Rolex watch of Bugti (Daily Times). The caption itself tells as to what`s behind the unbruised spectacles!
For man of lifetime tribal life, burial by his adversary is the worst thing for any tribal leader. It`s worse than death. Adbul Samad Lasi was his adversary and he administered the burial PLUS he confirmed the deadbody as that of Bugti! What a shame to the deadman!!
Musharraf can be held for these indiscretions by politicians and public alike. Since Mush is not accountable for anybody, he wont care BUT people wud rememebr this. There were a loose string of small leaders from Balochstan BUT there`s no icon for them. Musarraf gave them one. As for the words of Jamali he`s sitting on the fence now. He wud change tack as the developments unfold or he may revert to administration man if the upsurge subsides.
All in all, Khan of Kalat spoke in unabigious terms for the first time, I think. Many commentators were predcitng the 1971 events since 2005 or so but who cares! Mush is not accountable to anybody nor there`s any value for public opinion in your country. Both of these points are interlinked. Had Mush been an elected man, he`d have been guaging the public pulse on his actions. He need to be guagng the pulse of Dubya, unfortunately.
Personally I dont think that Bugti was standing for any values but the die was cast in 2004 and that was Mush Vs 3-Sardars as proxy for the whole of Balochistan. For all his colourful life, Bugti volunteered to fight tooth and nail.
All military Generals oversaw the weakening of the dream of a frail Bombay Khoja. For all their best intentions Generals are the curse of Pakistan and they wud continue to be so. This General is no differtn from others. I dont know when wud you get rid of this Nemesis. Some people may not like my plain speaking and mistake it for abuse. I wont be talking with you irresponsibly. This is what I feel abt the latest developments.
P.S: I do get mails from some important Baloch leaders (In Pak and elsewhere) with detailed info on latest developments and their viewpoints on them. For reasons of confidence I wudnt disclose those details.
Respected Shah Saheb,
I have mixed feelings about Bugti`s career but as a leader with 50-odd years of political life he doesn`t deserve this dog`s death. Even if he had this death, he deserved a decent burial from his family members but NOT from his adversary Lasi as the solemnising official.
There was this hush-hush from Mushy`s admin. I mentioned this in my ilogs. They changed versions as there was groudswell of sympathy even from Mush`s own cronies like Shujaat, Kasuri & Mushahid not to mention the comments from Nawaz Sheriff and other political leaders. Even MMA is encashing the public resentment of Bugti`s murder by organising Strikes.
I saw the photos of the specatacles and Rolex watch of Bugti (Daily Times). The caption itself tells as to what`s behind the unbruised spectacles!
For man of lifetime tribal life, burial by his adversary is the worst thing for any tribal leader. It`s worse than death. Adbul Samad Lasi was his adversary and he administered the burial PLUS he confirmed the deadbody as that of Bugti! What a shame to the deadman!!
Musharraf can be held for these indiscretions by politicians and public alike. Since Mush is not accountable for anybody, he wont care BUT people wud rememebr this. There were a loose string of small leaders from Balochstan BUT there`s no icon for them. Musarraf gave them one. As for the words of Jamali he`s sitting on the fence now. He wud change tack as the developments unfold or he may revert to administration man if the upsurge subsides.
All in all, Khan of Kalat spoke in unabigious terms for the first time, I think. Many commentators were predcitng the 1971 events since 2005 or so but who cares! Mush is not accountable to anybody nor there`s any value for public opinion in your country. Both of these points are interlinked. Had Mush been an elected man, he`d have been guaging the public pulse on his actions. He need to be guagng the pulse of Dubya, unfortunately.
Personally I dont think that Bugti was standing for any values but the die was cast in 2004 and that was Mush Vs 3-Sardars as proxy for the whole of Balochistan. For all his colourful life, Bugti volunteered to fight tooth and nail.
All military Generals oversaw the weakening of the dream of a frail Bombay Khoja. For all their best intentions Generals are the curse of Pakistan and they wud continue to be so. This General is no differtn from others. I dont know when wud you get rid of this Nemesis. Some people may not like my plain speaking and mistake it for abuse. I wont be talking with you irresponsibly. This is what I feel abt the latest developments.
P.S: I do get mails from some important Baloch leaders (In Pak and elsewhere) with detailed info on latest developments and their viewpoints on them. For reasons of confidence I wudnt disclose those details.
#399 Posted by krishna_abcd on September 1, 2006 7:57:35 pm
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#398 Posted by teshah on September 1, 2006 7:13:39 pm
Re: # 397
The most heinous show in this whole horrible episode of the murder of Akbar Bugti was in my view the display of the spectacles and watch of the Shaheed Nawab by the DCO, Dera Bugti, at the burial. What a `maal-e-ghanimat` he got as a result of the murder of an illustrious Baloch brother who dared to stand up against the despotism in uniform! History will perhaps never forget such a cynical spectacle.
BTW, why is he not charged for theft for all that which belonged to the heirs of the Nawab Shaheed?
The most heinous show in this whole horrible episode of the murder of Akbar Bugti was in my view the display of the spectacles and watch of the Shaheed Nawab by the DCO, Dera Bugti, at the burial. What a `maal-e-ghanimat` he got as a result of the murder of an illustrious Baloch brother who dared to stand up against the despotism in uniform! History will perhaps never forget such a cynical spectacle.
BTW, why is he not charged for theft for all that which belonged to the heirs of the Nawab Shaheed?
#397 Posted by VRV on September 1, 2006 4:24:23 pm
Is govt of Pakistan trying to cover-up something about Nawb Bugti`s assasination? It looks like!
(www.balochwarna.org)
Balochwarana believes that the body of SHAHEED NAWAB BUGTI has not been buried. we believe the body is still in the costudy of pakistan`s punjabi authorities. Pakistan is trying to hide its Crime agianst humanity/against Baloch Nation. According our independent sources that cave which was shown to Media people is NOT the palce were Nawab Bugti was residing. Thus is proves that pakistani authorities have used chemical weapons and clusters bombs against Baloch fighter and now hiding their crime.
Another 65 people have got martyred in this fight and the govt has failed return a single body. we are sure non of the body is in that so called cave. Even according to media people they have seen some bodies aound that area but the pakistan`s punjabi army did not allow them to take thier pictures. We believe pakistani media is also baised to the govt and is NOT showing/telling the truth to the Nation.
However from www.thenews.com.pk
HIS SON HAD TO SAY THIS:
Jamil Bugti criticised the military for burying his father’s body in Dera Bugti and not in Quetta. “The government is scared the people will show their anger if my father is allowed to be buried in Quetta,” he said. “But they want to bury him in Dera Bugti, where there are no family members present, so they can cover up this cold-blooded killing. It’s unethical and immoral. We and the entire Baloch nation are not surprised over this act by the military, which has no regard for values,” he said.
& THIS IS MQM`S ALTAF HAD TO SAY:
Muttahida Qaumi Movement chief Altaf Hussain has said that the burial of Nawab Akbar Bugti without handing over his body to his next-of-kin was totally un-Islamic, immoral and inhuman.
In a statement issued on Friday from London, he said refusal to return the body of the veteran politician to his family was an offence even more heinous than murder.
He heaped scathing criticism on the government for this act.
He said family of Nawab Akbar Bugti should have been given a chance to complete all the formalities and go through the rites of the burial as enjoined by religion and age-old tradition.
Altaf said that even the body of a convict who is hanged to death is always handed over to his immediate family members, be it in Pakistan or elsewhere in the world.
THIS IS THE MUSHY`s HENCHMAN HAD TO SAY:
A plywood box, which was sealed by two China-made locks and buried in a graveyard &
Lasi refused, telling reporters it is “illegal to show his face” (Abdul Samad Lasi is a sarkari i.e Mushy Lasi).
NOW, WHO`S TELLING THE TRUTH?
(www.balochwarna.org)
Balochwarana believes that the body of SHAHEED NAWAB BUGTI has not been buried. we believe the body is still in the costudy of pakistan`s punjabi authorities. Pakistan is trying to hide its Crime agianst humanity/against Baloch Nation. According our independent sources that cave which was shown to Media people is NOT the palce were Nawab Bugti was residing. Thus is proves that pakistani authorities have used chemical weapons and clusters bombs against Baloch fighter and now hiding their crime.
Another 65 people have got martyred in this fight and the govt has failed return a single body. we are sure non of the body is in that so called cave. Even according to media people they have seen some bodies aound that area but the pakistan`s punjabi army did not allow them to take thier pictures. We believe pakistani media is also baised to the govt and is NOT showing/telling the truth to the Nation.
However from www.thenews.com.pk
HIS SON HAD TO SAY THIS:
Jamil Bugti criticised the military for burying his father’s body in Dera Bugti and not in Quetta. “The government is scared the people will show their anger if my father is allowed to be buried in Quetta,” he said. “But they want to bury him in Dera Bugti, where there are no family members present, so they can cover up this cold-blooded killing. It’s unethical and immoral. We and the entire Baloch nation are not surprised over this act by the military, which has no regard for values,” he said.
& THIS IS MQM`S ALTAF HAD TO SAY:
Muttahida Qaumi Movement chief Altaf Hussain has said that the burial of Nawab Akbar Bugti without handing over his body to his next-of-kin was totally un-Islamic, immoral and inhuman.
In a statement issued on Friday from London, he said refusal to return the body of the veteran politician to his family was an offence even more heinous than murder.
He heaped scathing criticism on the government for this act.
He said family of Nawab Akbar Bugti should have been given a chance to complete all the formalities and go through the rites of the burial as enjoined by religion and age-old tradition.
Altaf said that even the body of a convict who is hanged to death is always handed over to his immediate family members, be it in Pakistan or elsewhere in the world.
THIS IS THE MUSHY`s HENCHMAN HAD TO SAY:
A plywood box, which was sealed by two China-made locks and buried in a graveyard &
Lasi refused, telling reporters it is “illegal to show his face” (Abdul Samad Lasi is a sarkari i.e Mushy Lasi).
NOW, WHO`S TELLING THE TRUTH?
#396 Posted by soysauce on September 1, 2006 3:49:33 pm
Umair, so basically it`s a one-man show.
We had a one-woman show in india and she was (an) elected (dictator.)
The torture - is it because of personal vendetta or is it more political and in ``national interest?`` (We torture naxalites or anyone the local police finds inconvenient and brands naxalite all the time so it`s a mix of ``national interest`` and personal)
We had a one-woman show in india and she was (an) elected (dictator.)
The torture - is it because of personal vendetta or is it more political and in ``national interest?`` (We torture naxalites or anyone the local police finds inconvenient and brands naxalite all the time so it`s a mix of ``national interest`` and personal)
#395 Posted by bulleya on September 1, 2006 2:15:53 pm
soysauce........i have probably been more pro-military (or less anti-military would be a better term) than most on this site. however my facts, specifically about the military are very accurate. the next best thing to actually seeing things myself. i talked to people who were tortured. i know quite a few people in the military in high positions, having spend some time in it myself.
this dictatorship, by normal world dictatorship standards, is overall very benign. no doubt about that. only certain people are targeted. politicians and a few others. press is as free as never before. etc.
however that is not the point of discussion. the point being discussed is that nothing is done institutionally. it is musharraf`s will and whim. i didn`t realize how much, until this trip. he started off innocently enough. but now his own illegitimate position has forced him to delegitimize everything. he may not have put tanks on the streets to kill people, but the executive, judiciary and legislature have had tanks rolled over them........
that is not to say ppp and pml and mqm etc. didn`t do the same and won`t do the same again. which is the whole point. every direction one looks at, one sees the same thing.........
one point does need to be made however. the civilan leaders i talked to did seem to have some respect and fear of the judiciary. as well as of the press and of the general awam and its voting power. the military guys feared no one........other than the ability of the press to embarrass them, now and then. which musharraf could shut off, if he wanted to........
this dictatorship, by normal world dictatorship standards, is overall very benign. no doubt about that. only certain people are targeted. politicians and a few others. press is as free as never before. etc.
however that is not the point of discussion. the point being discussed is that nothing is done institutionally. it is musharraf`s will and whim. i didn`t realize how much, until this trip. he started off innocently enough. but now his own illegitimate position has forced him to delegitimize everything. he may not have put tanks on the streets to kill people, but the executive, judiciary and legislature have had tanks rolled over them........
that is not to say ppp and pml and mqm etc. didn`t do the same and won`t do the same again. which is the whole point. every direction one looks at, one sees the same thing.........
one point does need to be made however. the civilan leaders i talked to did seem to have some respect and fear of the judiciary. as well as of the press and of the general awam and its voting power. the military guys feared no one........other than the ability of the press to embarrass them, now and then. which musharraf could shut off, if he wanted to........
#394 Posted by soysauce on September 1, 2006 12:14:17 pm
hasanji,
as dictatorships go, this one does look to be benign - take Umair`s contention that the media are free. Either the dictator is a fool to let them write/speak what they want or he really has not much to hide....
as dictatorships go, this one does look to be benign - take Umair`s contention that the media are free. Either the dictator is a fool to let them write/speak what they want or he really has not much to hide....
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