1857 and the Lessons of 150 Years
mehul kamdar October 29, 2006
#333 Posted by bjkumar on February 22, 2007 7:06:46 pm
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#332 Posted by MantoLives on November 10, 2006 11:30:36 pm
Re: # 330
What a cop out.
Did I suddenly educate you on what GDP/Capita is?
What a cop out.
Did I suddenly educate you on what GDP/Capita is?
#331 Posted by echoboom on November 10, 2006 9:44:31 pm
Just for record & future reference by me
Role of Muslims in India’s Freedom Movement
The history of Indian national movement would be incomplete and biased without the presentation of the actual role of Indian Muslims in it.
Many historians tried to prove that Indian Muslim leaders preached the gospel of separation right from the Revolt of 1857 to the day of independence in 1947, and the Muslim antagonism to the Freedom Movement dates back to its beginning itself and that Religion can never allow a true Muslim to adopt India as his motherland.
There is also a propaganda that this tendency was ultimately the reason for partition of the country in 1947 and the ideology of separatism has influenced the Muslim masses so intensely that they were not satisfied by the concessions granted to them by the majority community which resulted in fresh demands for a separate homeland.
This propaganda has been resulted in the campaign of hatred against the Muslims.
After the attainment of independence it was hoped that our intellectuals would say good-bye to the British historiography of infusing communal politics and sowing the seeds of dissension between the two communities in India and usher in the golden age of freedom.
No adequate coverage
But contrary to the expectations, the role of Indian Muslims in the national movement has not been given adequate coverage in the press or books. It has either been sidetracked or referred to here and there by scholars. Instead of factual and secular historiography it has been communalized.
The contribution of Muslim revolutionaries, poets and writers is not known today. Similarly scarcely is known about the contribution of Muhammad Ashfaq Ullah Khan of Shahjehanpur who conspired and looted the British treasury at Kakori (Lucknow) to cripple the administration and who, when asked for his last will, before execution, desired: No desire is left except one that some one may put a little soil of my motherland in my winding sheet.
Likewise present generation of students do not know about Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan, a great nationalist who had passed 45 years of his 95 years of life in jail for the freedom of India; Barakatullah of Bhopal, one of the founders of the Ghadar party who created a network of anti-British organization and who died penniless in Germany in l927; Syed Rahmat Shah of the Ghadar party who worked as an underground revolutionary in France and was hanged for his part in unsuccessful Ghadar uprising in 1915; Ali Ahmad Siddiqui of Faizabad (UP) who planned the Indian Mutiny in Malaya and Burma along with Syed Mujtaba Hussain of Jaunpur and who was hanged In 1917; Umar Subhani, an industrialist and a millionaire of Bombay who presented a blank check to Gandhiji for congress expenses and who ultimately gave his life for the cause of independence, Muhammad Basheer, Khuda Bux, A. Zakaria, Zafar Hasan, Allah Nawaz, Abdul Aziz and tens of thousands of revolutionaries are ignored.
There is no doubt about that the Muslims have contributed massively to the national movement. Their struggle started since the advent of British rule in India. In the annals of archives Qaiser-ul-Tawarikh mentioned that the number of Muslims executed only in Delhi during 1857-58 was 27,000, not to speak of those killed in the general massacre. This shows the great sacrifices they made for the emancipation of their country from British rule.
In all the national uprisings from Sanyasi Movement to independence, the files of the Home Department are replete with their immense sacrifices that finally led to the withdrawal of British from India in 1947. What surprises one is the thing that even during the celebration of 50 years of Independence, their role was not properly taken care of by the press which led the All-India Milli Council, a body of Muslims to launch a Karavan-e-Azadi Rally, one from Srirangapatnam where the mausoleum of Tipu Sultan is located and the other from Silchar (Assam) to educate people about the role of Muslims in the country s freedom struggle.
What further pains one is the fate of Sultan Tipu s epitaph, put on the memorable place where he fell fighting with the British in defense of his metropolis his country which had been made a cricket wicket by the youngsters for their cricket practice during the World Cup 1999. No one, not even the local administration prevented this. This shows the ignorance of Indians of their greatest patriots who laid their lives for India s freedom.
There is no dearth of books on the Indian National Movement but only passing references have been made in them about the role of Muslims. So much so that in her book entitled Women In India s Freedom Movement Manmohan Kaur makes reference to only Begum Hazrat Mahel and Bi-Amma out of the hundreds of women who fought the battle of freedom with their men folk against the British Raj.
Several monographs in which Santimay Ray s Freedom Movement and Indian Muslims or P.N. Chopra s Role of Indian Muslims in the Struggle for Freedom; Kamta Chaubey s Muslims and Freedom Movement in India and a few regional studies like Muzaffar Imam s Role of Muslims in the National Movement and Hasan Imam s Indian National Movement regarding the role of Muslims have been published.
But the subject is wide and needs a comprehensive study. Such a study is essential to help eradicating prejudices and many misconceptions against the Muslims grown in the absence of fair historiography.
Shan Muhammad s book
Aligarh University professor Shan Muhammad s book Muslims and India s Freedom Movement that he dedicated to those who suffered for the cause of India s Independence, is a marvelous work in this regard. It was Institute of Objective Studies, New Delhi, which extended due encouragement to bring this work in its present shape. This project was to be released on the 50th anniversary of our independence but got released last year.
An objective study of the national movement reveals that Muslims have never been wanting in nationalist upsurge. Shoulder to shoulder they have fought with the other communities for the Independence of India. No single political party could have driver the British and it was with the indefatigable struggle of all that the British were forced to quit. The Faraizi and the Wahhabi Movements had disturbed the pace of British plan in the initial stages of its expansion in India. These movements may rightly be called as the most organized struggle to oust the British. The Wahhabis with their network all over India obstructed the smooth sailing of the British and fought gallantly against them. It is in this sense that they are said to be the early fighters for India s freedom. They resisted their fresh masters, gave them a befitting reply and convinced them that their stay in India was momentary.
It is a pity that their role in the struggle for freedom has not been adequately presented in the national history. What is more surprising is the fact that the role and contribution of Muslim women in the war of independence and the subsequent movement have been totally ignored by the historians.
Along with their counterparts they fought gallantly and suffered heavily. In the revolt of 1857 Asghari Begum (mother of Qazi Abdur Rahim, the revolutionary of Thana Bhawan, Muzaffarnagar) fought the British and was burnt alive when defeated. Similarly Habiba and Rahimi who obstructed the advance of English forces were caught and hanged. It is estimated that about 225 Muslim women gave their lives in the revolt.
The history of the national movement would be incomplete without mentioning the services of Abadi Begum (mother of Maulana Muhammad Ali), Amjadi Begum (wife of Maulana Muhammad Ali), Nishat-un-Nisa (Begum Hasrat Mohani), Saadat Bano Kitchlew (wife of Dr Saifuddin Kichlew), Begum Khursheed Khwaja (wife of M.A. Khwaja), Zulekha Begum (wife of Maulana Azad), Khadeja Begum and Khursheed Sahiba of frontier, Mehr Taj (daughter of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan), Zubaida Begum Daoodi (wife of Shafi Daoodi, the reputed nationalist of Bihar), Kaneez Sajida Begum (Bihar), Muneera Begum (wife of Maulana Mazhar-ul-Haq), Asmat Ara Begum Sughra Khatoon (Lucknow), Amina Tyabji (wife of Abbas Tyabji), Begum Sakina Luqmani (wife of Dr Luqmani and daughter of Badruddin Tyabji), Rehana Tyabji, (daughter of Abbas Tyabji), Hamida Tyabji (granddaughter of Shamsuddin Tyabji), Fatima Taib Ali, Safia Saad Khan, Shafaat-un-Nisa Bibi (wife of Maulana Habib-ur-Rahman, Ludhiana), Kulsoom Siyani (wife of Dr Jan Muhammad Siyani, nephew of Rahmtoo They participated in all the political movements from partition of Bengal to the partition of India with Congress banners in their hands. They were imprisoned, fined, baton-charged and suffered for a cause. Their life story itself is a part of the national movement, which cannot be denied and obliterated.
Role of Muslims in India’s Freedom Movement
The history of Indian national movement would be incomplete and biased without the presentation of the actual role of Indian Muslims in it.
Many historians tried to prove that Indian Muslim leaders preached the gospel of separation right from the Revolt of 1857 to the day of independence in 1947, and the Muslim antagonism to the Freedom Movement dates back to its beginning itself and that Religion can never allow a true Muslim to adopt India as his motherland.
There is also a propaganda that this tendency was ultimately the reason for partition of the country in 1947 and the ideology of separatism has influenced the Muslim masses so intensely that they were not satisfied by the concessions granted to them by the majority community which resulted in fresh demands for a separate homeland.
This propaganda has been resulted in the campaign of hatred against the Muslims.
After the attainment of independence it was hoped that our intellectuals would say good-bye to the British historiography of infusing communal politics and sowing the seeds of dissension between the two communities in India and usher in the golden age of freedom.
No adequate coverage
But contrary to the expectations, the role of Indian Muslims in the national movement has not been given adequate coverage in the press or books. It has either been sidetracked or referred to here and there by scholars. Instead of factual and secular historiography it has been communalized.
The contribution of Muslim revolutionaries, poets and writers is not known today. Similarly scarcely is known about the contribution of Muhammad Ashfaq Ullah Khan of Shahjehanpur who conspired and looted the British treasury at Kakori (Lucknow) to cripple the administration and who, when asked for his last will, before execution, desired: No desire is left except one that some one may put a little soil of my motherland in my winding sheet.
Likewise present generation of students do not know about Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan, a great nationalist who had passed 45 years of his 95 years of life in jail for the freedom of India; Barakatullah of Bhopal, one of the founders of the Ghadar party who created a network of anti-British organization and who died penniless in Germany in l927; Syed Rahmat Shah of the Ghadar party who worked as an underground revolutionary in France and was hanged for his part in unsuccessful Ghadar uprising in 1915; Ali Ahmad Siddiqui of Faizabad (UP) who planned the Indian Mutiny in Malaya and Burma along with Syed Mujtaba Hussain of Jaunpur and who was hanged In 1917; Umar Subhani, an industrialist and a millionaire of Bombay who presented a blank check to Gandhiji for congress expenses and who ultimately gave his life for the cause of independence, Muhammad Basheer, Khuda Bux, A. Zakaria, Zafar Hasan, Allah Nawaz, Abdul Aziz and tens of thousands of revolutionaries are ignored.
There is no doubt about that the Muslims have contributed massively to the national movement. Their struggle started since the advent of British rule in India. In the annals of archives Qaiser-ul-Tawarikh mentioned that the number of Muslims executed only in Delhi during 1857-58 was 27,000, not to speak of those killed in the general massacre. This shows the great sacrifices they made for the emancipation of their country from British rule.
In all the national uprisings from Sanyasi Movement to independence, the files of the Home Department are replete with their immense sacrifices that finally led to the withdrawal of British from India in 1947. What surprises one is the thing that even during the celebration of 50 years of Independence, their role was not properly taken care of by the press which led the All-India Milli Council, a body of Muslims to launch a Karavan-e-Azadi Rally, one from Srirangapatnam where the mausoleum of Tipu Sultan is located and the other from Silchar (Assam) to educate people about the role of Muslims in the country s freedom struggle.
What further pains one is the fate of Sultan Tipu s epitaph, put on the memorable place where he fell fighting with the British in defense of his metropolis his country which had been made a cricket wicket by the youngsters for their cricket practice during the World Cup 1999. No one, not even the local administration prevented this. This shows the ignorance of Indians of their greatest patriots who laid their lives for India s freedom.
There is no dearth of books on the Indian National Movement but only passing references have been made in them about the role of Muslims. So much so that in her book entitled Women In India s Freedom Movement Manmohan Kaur makes reference to only Begum Hazrat Mahel and Bi-Amma out of the hundreds of women who fought the battle of freedom with their men folk against the British Raj.
Several monographs in which Santimay Ray s Freedom Movement and Indian Muslims or P.N. Chopra s Role of Indian Muslims in the Struggle for Freedom; Kamta Chaubey s Muslims and Freedom Movement in India and a few regional studies like Muzaffar Imam s Role of Muslims in the National Movement and Hasan Imam s Indian National Movement regarding the role of Muslims have been published.
But the subject is wide and needs a comprehensive study. Such a study is essential to help eradicating prejudices and many misconceptions against the Muslims grown in the absence of fair historiography.
Shan Muhammad s book
Aligarh University professor Shan Muhammad s book Muslims and India s Freedom Movement that he dedicated to those who suffered for the cause of India s Independence, is a marvelous work in this regard. It was Institute of Objective Studies, New Delhi, which extended due encouragement to bring this work in its present shape. This project was to be released on the 50th anniversary of our independence but got released last year.
An objective study of the national movement reveals that Muslims have never been wanting in nationalist upsurge. Shoulder to shoulder they have fought with the other communities for the Independence of India. No single political party could have driver the British and it was with the indefatigable struggle of all that the British were forced to quit. The Faraizi and the Wahhabi Movements had disturbed the pace of British plan in the initial stages of its expansion in India. These movements may rightly be called as the most organized struggle to oust the British. The Wahhabis with their network all over India obstructed the smooth sailing of the British and fought gallantly against them. It is in this sense that they are said to be the early fighters for India s freedom. They resisted their fresh masters, gave them a befitting reply and convinced them that their stay in India was momentary.
It is a pity that their role in the struggle for freedom has not been adequately presented in the national history. What is more surprising is the fact that the role and contribution of Muslim women in the war of independence and the subsequent movement have been totally ignored by the historians.
Along with their counterparts they fought gallantly and suffered heavily. In the revolt of 1857 Asghari Begum (mother of Qazi Abdur Rahim, the revolutionary of Thana Bhawan, Muzaffarnagar) fought the British and was burnt alive when defeated. Similarly Habiba and Rahimi who obstructed the advance of English forces were caught and hanged. It is estimated that about 225 Muslim women gave their lives in the revolt.
The history of the national movement would be incomplete without mentioning the services of Abadi Begum (mother of Maulana Muhammad Ali), Amjadi Begum (wife of Maulana Muhammad Ali), Nishat-un-Nisa (Begum Hasrat Mohani), Saadat Bano Kitchlew (wife of Dr Saifuddin Kichlew), Begum Khursheed Khwaja (wife of M.A. Khwaja), Zulekha Begum (wife of Maulana Azad), Khadeja Begum and Khursheed Sahiba of frontier, Mehr Taj (daughter of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan), Zubaida Begum Daoodi (wife of Shafi Daoodi, the reputed nationalist of Bihar), Kaneez Sajida Begum (Bihar), Muneera Begum (wife of Maulana Mazhar-ul-Haq), Asmat Ara Begum Sughra Khatoon (Lucknow), Amina Tyabji (wife of Abbas Tyabji), Begum Sakina Luqmani (wife of Dr Luqmani and daughter of Badruddin Tyabji), Rehana Tyabji, (daughter of Abbas Tyabji), Hamida Tyabji (granddaughter of Shamsuddin Tyabji), Fatima Taib Ali, Safia Saad Khan, Shafaat-un-Nisa Bibi (wife of Maulana Habib-ur-Rahman, Ludhiana), Kulsoom Siyani (wife of Dr Jan Muhammad Siyani, nephew of Rahmtoo They participated in all the political movements from partition of Bengal to the partition of India with Congress banners in their hands. They were imprisoned, fined, baton-charged and suffered for a cause. Their life story itself is a part of the national movement, which cannot be denied and obliterated.
#330 Posted by VRV on November 10, 2006 9:53:26 am
Yasser,
I dont need a person like u assess my brain but I wud look for better or normal people who do not lie routinely.
As a proven liar u are, u need to give the web link or address to others here so that they can cross-check ur list coz u are renowned to fudge facts and misquote very often. Therefore its in ur credibility u shud provide link/web address of the list to others. In any case I dont care a hoot for ur assertions.
P.S: Smaller countries can have higher GDP, for example Japan though being a smaller country than India or China had higher GDP.
PPS: Unlike u, I am not into this business of giving lists and ejaculating if mine is better than urs. India`s intrinsic strenghts and weaknesses are an open book. I dont need to highlight them here unless there`s a context. Even if I do, I dont use ur kind of cheap thrill tactics.........
I dont need a person like u assess my brain but I wud look for better or normal people who do not lie routinely.
As a proven liar u are, u need to give the web link or address to others here so that they can cross-check ur list coz u are renowned to fudge facts and misquote very often. Therefore its in ur credibility u shud provide link/web address of the list to others. In any case I dont care a hoot for ur assertions.
P.S: Smaller countries can have higher GDP, for example Japan though being a smaller country than India or China had higher GDP.
PPS: Unlike u, I am not into this business of giving lists and ejaculating if mine is better than urs. India`s intrinsic strenghts and weaknesses are an open book. I dont need to highlight them here unless there`s a context. Even if I do, I dont use ur kind of cheap thrill tactics.........
#329 Posted by MantoLives on November 10, 2006 4:33:03 am
``he`d mention the figures as GDP``
My 309 is there. And the source is there. I said GDP/Capita. But when one is a liar like VRV... one can`t help it.
My 309 is there. And the source is there. I said GDP/Capita. But when one is a liar like VRV... one can`t help it.
#328 Posted by MantoLives on November 10, 2006 4:31:42 am
Dostmittar sahab,
It turns out that you`ve been relegated to what VRV calls Resident Non-Indian... and you are not even a resident.
It turns out that you`ve been relegated to what VRV calls Resident Non-Indian... and you are not even a resident.
#327 Posted by MantoLives on November 10, 2006 4:28:57 am
VRV,
The figures I have quoted are the most recent and from IMF`s World Economic Outlook September 2006
I`ve already blown to bits similar assertions on the other board. You may go and read it.
Secondly... for your brainlessness... I suggest you see that being 12th or being 43rd in Nominal GDP is not the same has having a higher rank in GDP/Capita.
The figures I have quoted are the most recent and from IMF`s World Economic Outlook September 2006
I`ve already blown to bits similar assertions on the other board. You may go and read it.
Secondly... for your brainlessness... I suggest you see that being 12th or being 43rd in Nominal GDP is not the same has having a higher rank in GDP/Capita.
#326 Posted by mohar11 on November 9, 2006 9:21:55 am
Re: # 325 naq
Politicians on Indian side do mention the poverty but mostly as crocodile tears... Over the years, we have heard various slogans and various hare-brained plans: garibi hatao(eliminate poverty) and what not... all just slogans...
Recently we have National Rural Employment Gurantee(NREG) scheme going on... looks like yet another anti-poverty white elephant... even though there has been some early successes from a few places - but the long term result remains to be seen...
Politicians on Indian side do mention the poverty but mostly as crocodile tears... Over the years, we have heard various slogans and various hare-brained plans: garibi hatao(eliminate poverty) and what not... all just slogans...
Recently we have National Rural Employment Gurantee(NREG) scheme going on... looks like yet another anti-poverty white elephant... even though there has been some early successes from a few places - but the long term result remains to be seen...
#325 Posted by Naqshbandi on November 9, 2006 7:52:18 am
tahmed32 --for once i agree with you. i never thought we`d ever agree on anything on chowk!
yes, those in the West have the LUXURY of thinking of past glories and other such intellectual exercises; those in the East have to ask--what will I eat tonight and how do i get it? Meanwhile, the govts of Indo-Pak fiddle whilst their respective countries burn from poverty.
Somewhere I heard/read that over half of the world`s starving children live in India and Pakistan. Yet I`ve NEVER heard ANY politician of either side of the border or of any political persuasion mentioning that.
la`anat bar kazaab!
yes, those in the West have the LUXURY of thinking of past glories and other such intellectual exercises; those in the East have to ask--what will I eat tonight and how do i get it? Meanwhile, the govts of Indo-Pak fiddle whilst their respective countries burn from poverty.
Somewhere I heard/read that over half of the world`s starving children live in India and Pakistan. Yet I`ve NEVER heard ANY politician of either side of the border or of any political persuasion mentioning that.
la`anat bar kazaab!
#324 Posted by VRV on November 8, 2006 8:56:25 am
Re: # 321
Dost,
Ur prevarication is all too evident. Btw, let me make it absolutely clear. I have not misquoted but quoted the figures from the World Bank data source (it`s the ultimate source) and the figures are the latest.
By vascillating on ur friend`s figures and ascribing the diff of years etc., u make it clearer to me that u are in fact shielding the lies of that person. Instead of questing his source and asking for it from him u are in fact protecting his lies as truths by prevaricating. Alright. I understand that by now.
I am therefore not seeking ur authentication for what I have posted. Keep it to urslef. Thanks but no thanks.
Dost,
Ur prevarication is all too evident. Btw, let me make it absolutely clear. I have not misquoted but quoted the figures from the World Bank data source (it`s the ultimate source) and the figures are the latest.
By vascillating on ur friend`s figures and ascribing the diff of years etc., u make it clearer to me that u are in fact shielding the lies of that person. Instead of questing his source and asking for it from him u are in fact protecting his lies as truths by prevaricating. Alright. I understand that by now.
I am therefore not seeking ur authentication for what I have posted. Keep it to urslef. Thanks but no thanks.
#323 Posted by tahmed32 on November 7, 2006 6:56:43 pm
naqshbandi #311 what you wrote in bold is exactly what i feel too. but it is not the whole truth - the truth that is left out is that there are many pakistanis too for whom fantasies of ``muslim glory`` are vastly more important than the reality of mass poverty in Pakistan from which they themselves conveniently escaped to live in the west.
#322 Posted by dost_mittar on November 7, 2006 3:35:05 pm
VRV:
On second examination, maybe the two of you are quoting figures for different years; while your figures are for 2005, I do not know what year are Manto`s figures for.
On second examination, maybe the two of you are quoting figures for different years; while your figures are for 2005, I do not know what year are Manto`s figures for.
#321 Posted by dost_mittar on November 7, 2006 3:31:13 pm
VRV:
I have no interest in defending either Manto , who btw is not a Canadian or my compatriot or you, as you are both capable of looking after yourself. I went by the posted statistics. There is apparently a discrepancy between the figures you posted, along with the website, and those posted by Manto. I do not know how to reconcile those two sets of figures.
I have no interest in defending either Manto , who btw is not a Canadian or my compatriot or you, as you are both capable of looking after yourself. I went by the posted statistics. There is apparently a discrepancy between the figures you posted, along with the website, and those posted by Manto. I do not know how to reconcile those two sets of figures.
#320 Posted by VRV on November 7, 2006 12:55:19 pm
Dost,
Are u going to argue now that 158 is bigger than 144
AND
171 is bigger than 159 & therefore Pakistan is ahead of India?
If that`s the argument, then I give up and confess that India is below Pakistan on both counts! ;)
Are u going to argue now that 158 is bigger than 144
AND
171 is bigger than 159 & therefore Pakistan is ahead of India?
If that`s the argument, then I give up and confess that India is below Pakistan on both counts! ;)
#319 Posted by VRV on November 7, 2006 12:51:24 pm
Dost,
It appears that u want to cover the vital parts of ur compatriot after he`s exposed! ;)
It appears that u want to cover the vital parts of ur compatriot after he`s exposed! ;)
#318 Posted by VRV on November 7, 2006 12:37:53 pm
Dost,
It appears that u didnt read my post clearly. I too gave the ranks as per Per Capita Incomes, Pl read this again:
Pl refer to source i.e World Bank:
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GNIPC.pdf
PER CAPITA INCOME AS PER DOLLAR TERMS:
China`s Rank : 128 with $ 1740
India at 159 with $ 720
AND ur Pakistan at 171 with $ 690
PER CAPITA INCOME AS PER PPP TERMS:
China is at 107 with $ 6,600
India is at 144 with $ 3,460
AND Grrrrreat Pakistan at 158 with $ 2,350
It appears that u didnt read my post clearly. I too gave the ranks as per Per Capita Incomes, Pl read this again:
Pl refer to source i.e World Bank:
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GNIPC.pdf
PER CAPITA INCOME AS PER DOLLAR TERMS:
China`s Rank : 128 with $ 1740
India at 159 with $ 720
AND ur Pakistan at 171 with $ 690
PER CAPITA INCOME AS PER PPP TERMS:
China is at 107 with $ 6,600
India is at 144 with $ 3,460
AND Grrrrreat Pakistan at 158 with $ 2,350
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