On Zillae Huma Usman

Re: # 161

Zeena Ji

You say:
``If, we start calling everyone Muslim then christians, Jews and all others can be Muslim...... ``.

So that it! `Billi thiele se bahar aa gai`. You are afraid that your `writ` in authorizing one to call oneself a Muslim will be jeopardized if every body is allowed to be called a Muslim.

In the first place; why should any body like to be called a Muslim when it is no longer a of word of honour and certainly had never been for the Jews and Christians, believing in Islam but of Pre-Mohammedan vintage - vide Quran.

How absurd it is that it is only in the Pakland that when you call yourself a Hindu or an Ahmadi, etc., nobody would question your faith. But if you claim to be a Muslim your faith would become damn questionable and you would be
required to fill up a stupid affidavit declaring some fellow citizens of yours as non-Muslim and an unknown Indian, long since dead, to be an impostor. So technically all Muslims in the Parkland having been converted into `Halafi Muslims` who would in your opinion be authorized to accept their `Halaf Nammas` and give them a certificate of being a Muslim, a Mohammedan-one I mean? The truth is that the faith, being purely a subjective matter. it is only God who knows about Have you not read Quran which says:

Sura Hujurat (49), verse 14

049.014
YUSUFALI: The desert Arabs say, ``We believe.`` Say, ``Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, `We have submitted our wills to Allah,` For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.``

PICKTHAL: The wandering Arabs say: We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Ye believe not, but rather say ``We submit,`` for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and His messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

SHAKIR: The dwellers of the desert say: We believe. Say: You do not believe but say, We submit; and faith has not yet entered into your hearts; and if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not diminish aught of your deeds; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. ``

(Note: It is actually the word `Ahraab`, meaning plainly as all Arabs, in Quran which has been translated differently by different translators apparently to limit its applicability to a particular section of Arabs when it has obvious applicability to all humanity for all times.)

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#165 sattar2 sahib

Who is going in circles again and again? Obviously you. Look @ each and every post of your`s....Repeating the same thing over and over again.

Call all Muslims foundations ODD, then calling Prophet Mohd(PBUH) ODD. And then insisting then you should be called Muslim...............just think

You are way , too confused.

As Longfellow said,

Life is real! Life is earnest!
And the grave is not its goal;
Dust thou art, to dust returnest,
Was not spoken of the soul.

Let us, then, be up and doing,
With a heart for any fate;
Still achieving, still pursuing,
Learn to labor and to wait.

Re: # 167

:)

To each his own.

Zahra,

Inadvertently and somewhat unwittingly, I have become the Chowk poster boy of this Muslim/Ahmadi debate. It reminds me of an Oscar Wilde quote, which said something like … ”we did not accomlish great things; rather greatness was thrust upon us”.

Sorry to have borrowed your board for this recurring issue. The issue sort of got thrust upon me and I couldn`t walk away. Greatness was neither intended, nor the outcome of this discusison, as we all have witnessed. But then again, I have was always been a ``B`` student ... and for most part laugh at myself every now and then. Good luck.

teshah (#153),

I read Munir Report sometime ago. Yes, when asked, ullema could not agree to definition of a Muslim.

1973 hearings of “Ahmadi issue” were conducted behind closed doors. I don’t think content of this hearing is publicly available … including the speech you are referring to. It all remains a secret.

+++

samar #157... not a problem … and #160 … you’re welcome.

Zeena,

You keep insisting on “last prophet” but are unable to validate your claim. And note that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was also the odd one when he preached oneness of God.

Ahmadi-Muslims do not claim Mirza Sahib is the last prophet. We believe Allah will continue to raise prophets as He sees fit. Yes, this view is based on Quran and teachings of dear Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This also addresses your post #161.

You are going in circles ... with claims you have failed to validate. Pardon me if I fail to take you seriously. Good luck.

Chowk staff

Please, do not set an example of NEPOTISM. What, if, all of us do the samething using two or more ids?

Just show us your honesty.........samar1986 aka aishaM is one person.

this interactor admitted him/herself.................

If, this is the way, you wish this site to be, then ban me and I will come with multiple nicks........................to please you........

Moderators/Invigilators -

I suggest we also look into an earlier post where under Khurram`s name we had a redundant post -- #127. Let`s make sure that there are not 2 individuals trying to give an impression of one. Or, it may have been a system glitch ? Probably, the servers could not withstand the intellectual honesty on this board and gave up :)

Chowk Staff

If, you will not ban one ID of samar1986 aka aishaM, you will encourage Multiple nicks.

It will be hard for us to interact with multiple nicks of the same person. This is simply a murder of intellectual honesty.

Please, apply your chowk interact guidelines fairly and ban one active ID of samar1986 aka aishaM.

I am sure you will take care of this issue seriously.

#153 teshah sahib

No, we can not call Mirzaiis as Muslims IF they do not believe Prophet Mohd(PBUH) as their last prophet.

If, we start calling everyone Muslim then christains, jews and all others can be Muslim......

Followers of Jesus Christ=Christians
Followers of Hinduism=Hindus
Followers of David=Jews
Followrs of Prophet Mohd(PBUH)=Muslims
Followers of buddha=buddhists
Followers of Gurus(Nanak and more)=sikhs
Followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed=Mirzaais.

Simple.

Re: # 149, Sattar2

My query was really very simple and straight forward. You have very kindly given an elaborated reply for which I am grateful to you. I got it`s essence and the subtle meaning. Thanks again.

#153, teshah saheb,

I completely agree with your post, sir. And when there is no clear-cut definition everyone should treat others (who wish to call themselves Muslims) Muslims. This is the fairest thing for Pak and Muslim world in general. But look, what the fanatics are bent upon doing. Really frustrating.

Samar

Chowk Staff

Show us your fairness. samar1982 is also using aishaM id.

regards

#146 ZahraJ dear

Relish the firecrackers, will you? You will never, in your lifetime, get this opportunity of enjoying Holi and Diwali at the same time.

Samar

Re: # 149, sattar saheb : ref: #148,

This post belongs to me. Aisha is my cousin who happened to visit us yesterday evening and used my computer. She wrote many poems in her i-log and was careless enough to let it be inadvertently used by me. When I came back late in the evening, found the window open and out of foolishness, stupidity, ineptitude, rashness, imbecility, etc. etc and idioCY sent the message through her ID.

Aisha, I accept my fault and feel sorry to have used your ID. I request Chowk staff to excuse me.

Samar