India's Yin and Yang 60 years After Independence

Aslam bhai,

U R rite, a killing is a killing. And ur Momin Paki army has killed more Muslims than the Hanud Injun Army. Enjoy.

Regards

Re: # 47
what's the difference whether one's killed by white phosphrous or a bullet. a killing is a killing.

Of-course it is besides the point that when the base is 2.5%, 9,5% over that means garbage.

It's the base effect .... idiots ... over which you are jumping up and down like macacas.

In India, the cop don't use white phosphorus, artillery or helicopter gunships...

Can pakis say the same..

And brit-pakis like you are at the bottom of the social heap..numbers don't lie...

You have brit pakis who've blown up subways, were planning to poison people, were planning to blow up the ministry of sound, were planning to blow up airlines over the atlantic etc etc...

Re: # 45
Arjuna

It’s not just brit-pakis who are unemployable, there are thousands of ‘educated’ Indians who are doing odd jobs in the UK, there are tamil-indians who claim that they are srilankan-tamils to get asylum in the UK.

I can’t figure this out India is suppose to be booming but Indian migration into UK is at an all time high.

The last terrorist act in the UK was commited by an Indian not a paki.

In the UK police do not shoot rioters as in India, in the Bradford riots the biggest weapon police used was loudspeakers telling rioters “ please go home otherwise you will arrested to public disorder”

#43 Posted by aslam644 on August 16, 2007 5:40:35 am

So? There are plenty of "educated" people who are unemployable.

You brit-pakis are the worse educated in the UK..yet you're into all kinds of terrorism..

Ref zeemax #40

[1 out of every 7 Indians is a Muslim, upon whom you pull a Gujrat and deny jobs. 1 out of every 6 Indians is an achoot (Dalit? Politically correct?) who can't walk within a 100 yards of a Mandir. That's a third of the entire population. Then you add the rural 70% who get 2.5% of growth against 5% inflation in the 9.5% of just three South Indian locations. That's 100%. How do you expect any ying and yang? Just from Noida and Gurgaon?]

Hey, at least the Muslims have a way out all because of Jinnah.

They can move to the Land of the Pure and they will have 100% employment as suicide bombers.

Re: # 42
not every one has an IT degree the statistics i have are that 17% of indian graduates are unemployed or underemployed.

#41 Posted by aslam644 on August 16, 2007 5:05:08 am

WTF are you talking about? There's no shortage of demand for educated people in the cities..IT companies will hire any warm body with a basic level of education...There used to be a joke about TCS saying they have a sign outside their office saying "Trespassers will be recruited"...

It's islamic indoctrination that makes muslims terrorists...not education or the lack thereof...

Re: # 35
education is not the panacea for the muslims of india, it might lead to more tension because of competition for jobs, whereas uneducated people tend to be docile, the educated muslim young men might be more aggressive and fight for their rights, or even turn to terrorism, which some are already doing sadly.

#33 Posted by bjkumar,

Mr. Beej Kumar (and several duplicate nicks), may I ask you a question?

1 out of every 7 Indians is a Muslim, upon whom you pull a Gujrat and deny jobs. 1 out of every 6 Indians is an achoot (Dalit? Politically correct?) who can't walk within a 100 yards of a Mandir. That's a third of the entire population. Then you add the rural 70% who get 2.5% of growth against 5% inflation in the 9.5% of just three South Indian locations. That's 100%. How do you expect any ying and yang? Just from Noida and Gurgaon?

Ranjit you are a good man below is not for you:

Important point: All of this was done while police, government and society was supporting this. Laddu says hindus don’t believe this will lead to retaliation and bombs but only hindus can be so good at logic no one else in the world is such a genius. We will always help our muslim brothers against such heinous crimes and genocide.

Stupid muslims you are always criticizing Islam, muslims and Pakistan see how hindus like always defend India, Hinduism and hindus learn from them how to be nationalist.

They will deny any crticsm of India and hindus and point out how wrong Pakistan and muslims are even if they support a good cause like poor kasmiris or bomabay muslims they will call them terrorits and you join them and abuse ur country and fellow muslims, shame on you and shame on this Busharraf

You can see yourself the hate in their heart fror muslims, and Pakistan from this web site if not convinced read the articles I posted you will see these hindus in UK and USA are funding Gujarat, VHP, BJP and Shiv sena

And in the end thanks to Quaid whose shukrguzaar we are

cut your yng yang ping pang get a reality check:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engasa200012005

Calls to rape Muslim girls and women were contained in pamphlets produced by the VHP and RSS and distributed in Ahmedabad months before the violence started.(46) A VHP leaflet called Jihad (holy war), signed by VHP state general secretary Chinubhai Patel, calls on Hindus: “"We will cut them and their blood will flow like rivers. We will kill Muslims the way they destroyed Babri mosque”". It goes on to spell out the sexual nature of their communal hatred:
“"The volcano which was inactive … has erupted, it has burned the arse of miyas [Muslim men] and made them dance nude. We have untied the penises which were tied till now. We have widened the tight vaginas of the bibis [women]”"(47)

Medico Friends Circle (MFC), a voluntary organization of Indian health professionals, similarly observed, “"as pamphlets by the Sangh Parivar indicate, women’s bodies were turned into battlefields in order to perpetrate hate and dishonour and assault the pride, dignity and integrity of the whole community”".(48)

Women have been raped and sexually humiliated the world over in clashes between communities as a mechanism of dishonouring their entire community which becomes impure and polluted by the rape of an outsider. Most observers agree that rape and other forms of sexual humiliation and assault were used in the Gujarat violence as an instrument of systematic “"subjugation and humiliation of [the Muslim] community”".(49) The means and methods of assault bore a deliberate and open Hindu imprint. Women were raped while the rapists chanted Hindu slogans; the weapons with which women’s wombs were cut open were trishuls and swords; the bodies of the victims were not left where they fell but burned in the way Hindus cremate their dead. Witnesses reported that in some cases, the syllable “"Om”" which has religious significance in Hinduism, was cut into the bodies and skulls of victims.

Evidence of the systematic sexual assault on Muslim girls and women is well documented and overwhelming.(50) Girls’ and women’s bodies were subjected to “"almost inexhaustible violence, with infinitely plural and innovative forms of torture … their sexual and reproductive organs were attacked with special savagery”".(51) A doctor who examined victims in a local hospital reported injuries inflicted with a brutality he had not seen before. Women working in a relief camp in Ahmedabad reported to the International Initiative for Justice in Gujarat: “"There were many women bleeding, injured, naked. Many women had bite marks on their breasts. Three women were raped with wooden rods inserted in their vaginas. They were bleeding. We cleaned these women’s wounds after removing the objects inserted into their bodies”".(52) Reports on the violence in Gujarat concur on the pattern of violence inflicted on women. It was not only deliberate but designed to inflict maximum suffering. It was long-drawn, intended to kill not outright but, almost identically everywhere, involving a prolonged gradually increasing pain and humiliation.

Muslim girls’ and women’s sense of shame was deliberately outraged by stripping them in front of relatives and the mob. In Fatehpur, young girls were paraded naked and subjected to verbal sexual taunts, humiliation and threats of sexual violence. When an ambulance finally rescued them, they had nothing to cover themselves with. In all the cases in which groups of people were killed, several women underwent this ordeal. In an attack in the Gulberg Society in Ahmedabad on 28 February 2002, at least 10-12 women were raped and over 30 killed.

While some Muslim survivors reported that rapists had shouted that they intended to impregnate them with “"little Hindus”", the target of particular rage were pregnant women. Several eye-witnesses testified before human rights groups that a young woman, Kausar Bano of Naroda Patiya, Ahmedabad, who was nine months pregnant, was gang-raped and had her womb cut open with a sword; her foetus was ripped out, hacked to pieces and flung on the fire. The mother’s body was thrown on the fire as well. Police in Vadodara were reported by several witnesses to have hit the bodies of pregnant women with rifles shouting “"kill them before they are born”".

The logic of hatred against Muslims also explained the attacks by Hindu mobs on children, both born and unborn, which added another layer of extreme suffering to their parents. Such attacks would remove the future of the community and was certain to profoundly devastate Muslim women and the entire community. Numerous accounts show that women’s main concern during the attacks was for their children’s lives and safety. There are moving accounts of mothers describing the violation of their young daughters. One woman reported, “"I recognized two people from my village … pulling away my daughter. She screamed telling the men to get off her and leave her alone. … My mind was seething with fear and fury. I could do nothing to help my daughter from being assaulted sexually and tortured to death. My daughter was like a flower, still to experience life. Why did they do this to her?”"(53) Children of all ages were deliberately and mercilessly threatened, beaten, cut with swords and killed by Hindu mobs in front of their mother’s and other relatives’ eyes. In Naroda Patiya, a Muslim area of Ahmedabad, new born infants were torn from the arms of their mothers and thrown on the fire. Also in Naroda Patiya, mothers were reported to have pleaded with police to save their children. Some women reportedly laid their babies at their feet begging, in vain, for their protection. Bilqis Yakoob Rasool from Randhikpur village, Dahod district who was five months pregnant when a violent Hindu mob caught up with her and her family was violently gang-raped and made to watch as her three-year old daughter was killed.

Being forced to witness the fear and humiliation, gang-rape, burning to death of mothers, sisters and other female relatives has left deep scars on hundreds of children who survived the violence. At least 33,000 children, many of them orphans, lived in Gujarat’s relief camps after witnessing some of the most brutal forms of violence on their relatives. The Concerned Citizens Tribunal stated, “"They are mute witnesses to gross gender crimes perpetrated on their near and dear ones – sisters, mothers, aunts and even grandmothers – with gory and military precision, evidence of some sick minds and a vicious ideology”".(54)
The intentional sexual humiliation of girls and women is also evident in several reports of police officers exposing themselves to Muslim girls and women and waving their penises at them. A head constable of Gomtipur police station is reported on several occasions to have successfully used this technique to frighten women and cause them to run away. On 2 March 2002, Muslim women in Patel ki chali, a neighbourhood in the Gomtipur area of Ahmedabad, gathered outside the closed main entry gates to their areas to protect the men who had hidden in the houses from both the mobs and police. Two days earlier Muslim neighbourhoods had been burned down. They protested when police entered the area by jumping over the walls. In response, the head constable and his fellow policemen reportedly pulled down their trousers and exposed themselves to the women shouting obscene insults. The mob outside the gate took their cue from the police and did the same. Similar incidents are reported from other areas of Ahmedabad where Hindu men, including police officers, exposed their penises and shouted, “"your men are weak, we’re strong, you’re not strong enough to fuck your own women”".(55)

Many women victims of gang rape and other sexual assault were killed, most frequently by burning them, often while still alive. The burning of victims had the effect of depriving victims’ families of the ceremonies surrounding burial and mourning prescribed by Indian Muslim culture. Muslims bury their dead, whereas Hindus cremate them. By burning the dead or dying, the Hindu mobs enforced a cultural form of disposing of the dead that is alien to the victims’ families and deprived the already traumatized minority community of the important coping mechanism of culturally sanctioned customs of burial and mourning. Hindu mobs were clearly aware of and intended these effects. On 28 February 2002, a Hindu mob of around 25,000 surrounded a Muslim area in Saijpur Patia, Naroda, Ahmedabad, and stormed the lanes and raped girls and women in front of their male relatives. Among the victims were girls as young as 11 who were stripped of their clothes in front of the violent mobs who humiliated and gang-raped them, thrust swords and knives into their vaginas before burning them alive. They then killed Muslim men and women with swords before setting them on fire. They shouted that they would “"even spoil their deaths”". Arson and burning of the dead and the dying and living Muslim victims was clearly intended to “"obliterate a whole community”" by annihilating its culture and beliefs.(56)

The burning of bodies of women victims of sexual assault had the additional effect of destroying all material evidence. In Gujarat, the criminal justice system had been steadily communalized over several years which made it much harder for members of the Muslim minority to obtain justice. In such a context, to deprive victims’ families of the possibility to present material evidence for their complaints in court further diminished the slim chances they had to prove their cases in court.

Surviving girls and women victims of sexual assault have not had any official therapy or trauma counselling to help them cope with their experiences; in fact many had to immediately take on the new responsibilities of caring for other survivors who were equally traumatized and of tending to injured family members.

A unique feature of the sexual violence inflicted in Gujarat in 2002 was the participation of small but significant numbers of Hindu women who approved, instigated and encouraged it. Local human rights monitors have pointed out that “"women from all communities were affected by the fear and terror promoted by the state and the police”".(57) Many Hindu women were convinced of the likelihood of attacks by Muslim men as this prospect had been systematically spread in local media and numerous pamphlets.(58) Local observers have been alarmed by the “"level of hate”" among Hindu women resulting from such indoctrination. Many Hindu women during the violence stayed up at night with their male relatives to guard their homes against presumed assault by Muslims. It is a small step from such vigilante activities to joining men who went on the rampage against Muslims neighbours. Eye-witnesses have named several prominent women who took part in the violence.(59) Some were also reported to be involved in looting of Muslim properties. But many other Hindu women, resisting enormous pressure and braving personal risks, protected their endangered Muslim neighbours, sheltered and fed them and helped them escape.

They raped mothers infront of their children and killed them and children infront of parents

The Times of India -Breaking news, views. reviews, cricket from across India


'Women from minority community still traumatised'
16 Dec 2003, 0343 hrs IST,Piali Banerjee,TNN

SMS NEWS to 8888 for latest updates
MUMBAI: In an unfair world, women have always been the spoils of war. And the post-Godhra carnage in Gujarat, in February-March, 2002, reiterated this with a vengeance.

A testimony of the extent of violence against women, mostly sexual in nature, in Gujarat, comes in the form of a report published by the International Initiative for Justice in Gujarat (IIJG).

The report, titled 'Threatened Existence —A Feminist Analysis Of The Genocide In Gujarat', has been compiled by an international panel comprising feminist jurists, activists, lawyers, writers and academics, based on their interaction with women survivors, activists, doctors, etc.

"The deliberate shaming, especially of girls and young women, by raping them publicly or in front of other family members, including children, speaks of the intentional attempt to subjugate a community by attacking the female body," says the report.

And goes on to cite testimony after chilling testimony of women from the minority community, who were abused, violated, raped, and women who were forced to watch their daughters being abused, violated, raped.

There are testimonies of those who are living only so that they can see their attackers punished.

"I think the most chilling aftermath of the entire carnage comes in the third chapter of the report," says writer Shobhaa De, one of the "chilling first to read the report.

"I got gooseflesh when I read, 'In Gujarat, as in Bosnia or Rwanda earlier, the widespread and furious attacks against women of the minority community were regarded as legitimate not only by male attackers but also by women belonging to the majority community. We heard from testimonies that in some places the rapists were actively supported or even instigated by women of the majority community.' It indicates the complete breaking down of basic humanity."

Documentary filmmaker Rakesh Sharma, Sharma, who has covered much the same ground as the IIJG panelists for his film on the post-Godhra rampage in Gujarat, 'Final Solution' feels that the report will help to remove the misconception of the public that what happened in Gujarat last year was a momentary burst of madness which has now subsided.

"The report will definitely help to put Gujarat back on the agenda, when it comes to public memory," he says.

"We like to live in denial. This will at least jolt us into realising that there has been severe delay, if not complete denial of justice for hundreds of women, who are still living traumatised traumatised lives today, forced to cohabit with their violators who never lose a chance to taunt them whenever they swagger past them."

The trauma, for the women, is far from being over. Consider the example of Madina and her family, who hid in a field in Eral village in Gujarat for three days during the carnage. On the third day, the family was spotted by the mobs. Most of the members were pulled out.

The men were killed. Madina's two teenaged daughters were brutally gang-raped and then burnt to death. Only Madina remained unseen in her hiding place, clutching at her seven-yearold son. Today, when recounting her trauma, her most desperate refrain is, "Did I do wrong in not coming out when my daughters were being raped? Wouldn't they have killed my son too?"

"There are hundreds of women who haven't filed charges for fear of stigmatisation or further abuse. Those who have pressed charges, have begun to give up hope of getting justice," says Sharma.

"For instance, Sultana of Delol village, who was gang-raped has filed a complaint, but the police have claimed that the accused are absconding. Yet she pointed out a local paan-seller to me as one of the rapists."

In its final analysis, the IIJG report offers recommendations to the international community, the Indian government, the judiciary and civil society in India. It remains to be seen how seriously these recommendations are considered by any of the above sectors.

For all muslims:

Read the Srikrishna report written by a judge on massacre of muslims in broad day light under directives of state administration, police and shiv sena in Bombay

http://www.sabrang.com/srikrish/sri%20main.htm


in Gujarat it is even worse they raped and cut open the beliies of pregnant muslim women and innocent childrens genital were cut, they raped girls infront of their mother and fathers and burnt them alive or cut them with swords read it yourself.

http://coalitionagainstgenocide.org/reports/2002/uscirf.10jun2002.n ajid.pdf

http://www.sabrang.com/tribunal/volI/incipanchmahal.html

http://h rw.org/press/2002/04/gujarat.htm

http://india.indymedia.org/en/newswire/archi ve38.shtml

They burnt down thousands of crores of muslim business's got the records from the municipality and thewas done under the directives of the state police and government.

They also imposed a boycott on doing business with muslims, so that muslims can not recover after their business were looted and burnt.

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/246411



Not the best thing to share on Independent day of neighbouring country, but couldn't resist. It might be just staring this way that people are hiding their ID as some poor desis do in west. But by looking at the dire situation of Muslims in general in India, this doesn't come as a shocker. Muslims are equally responsible for their current state. They didn't do enough to vamp up their youths in education, after 5 generations, they are still paying for it.



Fearful Muslims adopt Hindu IDs


In India, many members of religious minority hide the signs of their faith to escape discrimination

August 15, 2007
Shaikh Azizur Rahman
SPECIAL TO THE STAR




CALCUTTA–On a busy street in Calcutta's business district, he runs a food stall called "Rajib's Paratha" and is known as Rajib Mallick.




Using the popular Hindu name, no one suspects he is Rajab Ali Mollah, a Muslim who has adopted a fictitious identity to blend in with the neighbourhood's mostly Hindu office workers.




Sohrab Hossain, a Muslim student who came to the city to complete his Masters degree in English and lives in a Hindu-dominated housing complex, is known as Sourav Das among the students he tutors. To keep up his Hindu appearance he has a small idol of Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of learning, on his desk.




Every morning as she prepares to go to work as a fishmonger, Hasina Khatoon takes off her silver armband embossed with "Allah" in Arabic, puts vermillion powder on her forehead and red-white conch bangles on her wrist – symbols of a married Hindu woman – to maintain a Hindu appearance in a fish market where almost all of her customers are Hindus.




Rajab Mollah, Sohrab Hossain and Hasina Khatoon say they have adopted new identities in a Hindu-majority society where as Muslims they would face discrimination.



Analysts say many Muslims from all socio-economic backgrounds are quietly hiding their religious affiliation.




"Muslims in almost all spheres of life face a communal discrimination by powerful Hindus and they are denied many of their basic rights and freedom in an unjustified way," said Anjan Basu, a social analyst and executive editor of Pratidin, a Bengali daily in Calcutta.



Six decades after Partition, "many (Hindus) believe that Pakistan was created for Muslims and now they do not have right to live in India, which is meant for Hindus."




The Partition of India 60 years ago was a highly controversial arrangement, and remains a cause of much tension on the subcontinent today.




Basu, who is a Hindu, also said discrimination has been "institutionalized," with many Muslims being denied employment in government and private-sector offices where 90 to 95 per cent jobs are held by Hindus.




Gautam Ray, a senior journalist with Calcutta's largest Bengali daily Anandabazar Patrika, said that since the bulk of the dalits (low-caste Hindus or so-called Untouchables) converted to Islam when the religion spread in India, many upper-caste Hindus look down on Muslims as they had for generations looked down on dalits.




"The root of this communal discrimination is deeply entrenched in the society and most of these communal Hindus are not expected to change their feeling for Muslims any time soon," said Ray, who is also an upper-caste Hindu. "Muslims are often denied housing in Hindu-dominated modern residential complexes," he added.




"This communal discrimination against Muslims will not end unless Hindus themselves change their attitude. But we do not see hope of any such positive social change anytime soon."




Muslims who adopted fake Hindu identities believe they did nothing wrong by hiding their original identities.





"Ten years ago, when my house and land in the village was eaten up by a river and I came to Calcutta in search of a job, almost all street shops and restaurants in the city refused to employ me because I was a Muslim," Mollah said.




"Some said their Hindu customers could refuse to eat at their restaurants if a Muslim worked there," he said.




"But I met a Muslim man who worked under a Hindu identity to supply water to restaurants. I followed his advice, picked up a Hindu identity and soon an upper-class Hindu employed me to run a food stall."




Nearly all of Mollah's customers are Hindus and he fears his business would suffer disastrously if his customers found out he is a Muslim.




"I don't think I have done anything wrong because I know how they hate Muslims simply because of their religion," he added.




A federal commission recently found that Muslims "live in socio-economic conditions worse than many so-called backward tribal people," according to commission chief Rajendra Sachar, a former judge.



In the state of West Bengal, where the Muslim community makes up 27 per cent of the population, employment of Muslims in the government sector was below 3 per cent, the Sachar Commission reported.

Some Muslim leaders see education as the key to a better future.





"If the younger generation can educate themselves, it will be difficult for even the most communal Hindus to discriminate against a new Muslim force," said Nazrul Islam, a senior public servant and noted Calcutta writer.



"Maybe discrimination will not be wiped out completely, but an educated and powerful community of Muslims will be able to fight off the injustice, at least to a good extent."



this Article is taken from pakistan greatest forum ...

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=261635