Taliban, Pashtoons and Pakistan

Pew,

Yes, you're right. Zeemax is seriously delusional and needs professional help; a straight-jacket at least!

Re: # 151 Fuzair

Give up on Zeemax! He is incorrigible. At one point he was caught claiming that the US attack on Afghanistan was never sanctioned by the UN, notwithstanding the fact that the UN Charter itself recognizes the right of member nations to defend themselves if they are a victim of an attack.

FCRA supercedes the Constitution?

In any case there is nothing about consulting with a jirga in Clause 1 and 2 so, ipso facto, the President can bomb FATA to his heart's content.

I suggest you consult a constitutional law expert to explain to you why, since it is the second para of clause 6, consulting the jirga does not apply to clauses 1 -5.

fuzair,

Clauses 1-6 of Article 247 relate to Executive power, while 7 relates to Judicial power. Now go and fetch the FCRA and lemme tell you more.

So why did you lie and quote selectively? Answer that first.

So why did you lie and quote selectively? Answer that first.

fuzair,

Not only are you an idiot, you're an uneducated moron. Now go and fetch the Frontier Crimes Regulations Act and I will tell you the interpretation of this clause.

BTW, it is clear that the consult the jirga crap applies only to Clause 6 since there is a clause 7 right after it.

Zeemax,

Not only are a Jihadi apologist, you are a pathetic liar incapable of understanding simple English. Here is the entire clause; the only time the President has to listen to a bunch of tribal idiots is when he wants to turn the Tribal Areas into settled districts. READ the clause para before the section you selectively quoted.

Entire clause you selectively quoted:

(6) The President may, at any time, by Order, direct that the whole or any part of a Tribal Area shall cease to be Tribal Area, and such Order may contain such incidental and consequential provisions as appear to the President to be necessary and proper:

Provided that before making any Order under this clause, the President shall ascertain, in such manner as he considers appropriate, the views of the people of the Tribal Area concerned, as represented in tribal jirga.

#144 Posted by fuzair,

You didn't produce the entire article, but just the first two sub-clauses. Very convenient.

It basically states that neither parliament nor the judiciary has any jurisdiction over tribal area, though the president has executive authority over the tribal areas through his governors PROVIDED:

...that before making any Order under this clause, the President shall ascertain, in such manner as he considers appropriate, the views of the people of the Tribal Area concerned, as represented in tribal jirga.

Rabid dogs - Indeed, but it's not the tribals. It's your types.

#143 Posted by pavocavalry on February 5, 2008 6:20:06 am


Another idea is to integrate all Pashtuns under one state


sounds like a great idea...pashtun state where the people have the inalenable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of a goat...

Zeemax:

Here is the relevant clause of the Constitution. The President can order the Army into the Tribal Areas and pacify and civilize them at his sole discretion. Its high time that the PA brought the tribals to heel... but maybe the rabid dogs will bite!

247. Administration of Tribal Areas.
(1) Subject to the Constitution, the executive authority of the Federation shall extend to the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, and the executive authority of a Province shall extend to the Provincially Administered Tribal Areas therein.

(2) The President may, from time to time, give such directions to the Governor of a Province relating to the whole or any part of a Tribal Area within the Province as he may deem necessary, and the Governor shall, in the exercise of his functions under this Article, comply with such directions.

There is a school of thought in USA which advocates partition of Afghanistan based on Hindu Kush.In this scenario it has been hypothesised that the ideal route would run via Pakistani Balochistan via Nimroz in Afghanistan which is Baloch majority.This whole process may take a decade or so if it at all happens.

Another idea is to integrate all Pashtuns under one state so that the confusion about from where incursion is taking place is removed.In this case ideally all pashtun areas would be under afghanistan.

#140 Posted by bulleya on February 4, 2008 11:35:45 pm


this in between stage, where pakistan will be bombed by nato if it doesn't bomb fata, and it will be bombed by fata if it does bomb fata, is taking pakistan nowhere...


it's taking you up shit creek without a paddle..(you didn't think you'd need a paddle because of your "geostrategic" location)

#137 Posted by pavocavalry.

Yes ... Agha Shahi (R.I.P). He was the best diplomat Pakistan ever had.

An excerpt from Dawn September 07, 2006:

For example, in Afghanistan, he firmly took the position of “handshake with the Americans, not an embrace”. His position was not completely appreciated by military ruler Ziaul Haq and it became one of the reasons for his exit.

It is said he was also the one who convinced ZAB to play the highly effective China card.

pavo #: "pakistan's western borders would become indefensible"

at some stage in pakistan's existence, it will need to shift its foreign policy from a military and defence centric point of view to an economic centric point of view......

every single point being discussed cannot be looked at solely by analyzing what will become defensible and what will become indefensible.....pakistan needs to get out of this habit of feeling as if it is in a perpetual state of invasion from the east and the west.......

this is what is taught in military institutions...and for good reason...since a solider is to fight.......and thus possible military threats are to be his primary area of education......

however this is also why soldiers should not be deciding or influencing foreign and domestic policy........or financial policy etc.......they will always, genuinely, feel that if they do this or that, such and such border will be under threat and they will be invaded......

pakistan's complete foreign policy was based on the fact that india would invade pakistan......i have seen enough of india and have met enough indians, to say with quite a bit of certainity that india has no intention to invade pakistan......what will they gain by bringing in another 150 million muslims.....specifically those who don't want to join them.....don't they have their hands full in kashmir....

now pakistan's policy is being based on this threat from the wast......tribal areas were never under pakistan's management......and now they are even deciding their own foreign policy......hence they are a lost case......

either one has to have the power to subjugate them, if they form their own foreign policy (which pakistan doesn't have the power to do), or one has to leave them on their own......if they want to fight nato in afghanistan, even though pakistan, as a country doesn't want to do so, then let them fight nato, on their own.....let them generated their own funds and carry out their own security......

........who is going to invade pakistan on its western frontier?........nato?....afghanistan?......fata?.......if they do so, then it should be considered an act of war and should be fought out........

this in between stage, where pakistan will be bombed by nato if it doesn't bomb fata, and it will be bombed by fata if it does bomb fata, is taking pakistan nowhere......

there is a big bad world outside pakistan, where a lot of countries have worked out the best way to run affairs - foreign and domestic.......let's learn from them.......and they shifted, a long time ago, from a military centric to an economic centric foreign policy.......its about time we stopped relying on PMA as our only source of education for running pakistan.......

and lets get out of this military-centric perpetual threat from east, west, north and south mindset, and start figuring out how pakistan can prosper........