Akbar and Alexander

Dear ajeya, Elavya, Nkg, guru,Ranjit and others

I have heeded your desire for REFERENCES but as it is a long reply have sent it as another article to Chowk that i expect will be up in a few days.

These are not references from Romila Thapar or JNU scholars but mostly from Brahmin sources. Remember that there are no final words to history and many very good and many very bad things were done by all races, rulers and religions in their pursuit of power so please keep an open mind.

Murad

Re: # 140
Murad:

I think you will be better off writing a book on history of car salesmanship than history of India, hinduism or Islam in India.

You have written good books on the subject, I believe.

Just my feelings.

Kamath

Re: # 110
Murad...
Ans: Nice mixure of history with fiction best adopted by JNU liars...

There is no proof of destruction of Budhdhist monasteries by Shashanka (the King of Goud). All these stories from the Harshavardhana side. Shashanka's kingdom was spread from Malda (Bihar -Bengal border) to much of Bangladesh and eastern Orissa. Murad Baig,site one example of such conversion and destruction. Better look at the islamic barbarism there in Adina Mosque...The temple converted into a mosque....

A myth is created that, Puri temple was Budhdhist monastary and Brahmins (most of the Brahmins in West Bengal and Orissa are from Kanauj) forecfully taken over from them. And some people use Swami Vivekananda's remark to prove that...
Kanauji brahmins to establish Oriya God, (jagganath)forecfully evicted Budhdhists!!!! Too much....

Re: # 119
Ekalavya...

There were no Hindus then, and presumably not just brahmins could have carried out such mass extirmination of Buddhists.

Ans: Ho ho ho ho...Do you believe in this theory of extermination?
These Romilla thapar ,moslems ( & liars) like Irphan Habibs just presents such concocted stories to prevent backlash against muslims...Go to Thirupati temple, Kashi Vishwanath Temple, Mathura ...
Indians were never violent against Budhdhists. Some brahmins disagreed to loose power. They used to influence kings to extract money and prove Budhdhists wrong. Majority of the people assimilated with some of the budhdhist and jain philosphy; budhdhism lost its identity in India. During puranic age, Budhdha was accepted as avatar of Vishnu....
Why Budhdhism survived in indo-china, china and japan for long time?
Because they have formed their own type of Budhdhism and were able to transfer Indian knowledge to these areas....

The monastic structure, tonsuring, bhikshu etc. concept originated from budhdhism and adopted in mainstream...
Now, none of school history books talks about islamic barbarism in India, destruction of education system, stagnation in all fields like (medical science, mathematics etc...)...
That scoundrel Akber, who Mr. Murad claims great, tried to distort indian philosphy by creating whole new Upanishad "Allopanishad" and merge with Atharva Veda!!!! What a rotten shit!!!! And you see Joker Naik, the GREAT Phlosopher,claims that the Vedas mentioned about Muhammed and allah...

muradbaig#140:

Sir, I had no problem with your article. You derailed the discussion by your post#110 and then could not give satisfactory answers to any of the questions raised by me and others. And now, you may derail the discussion further into what is India, what were people's religious practices and who ruled when and other issues.

Re: # 141
Khas kum jahan pak.

Re: # 140:

Indians, don't waste your time on these web sites. A grain of action goes farther than a mountain of discussion. Action can lead to integrity which is needed for peace. Peace/Shanti will give you the bliss ie right thought at right time. Visit goodbewsindia.com

We are in the age of very fast technological change. Which might be frightening if we deal with it serially and discretely as trained by MCaulay system. Murad Babu is a creature brought up in this abuse to get BA (Hon) in some subject.

Have trust! We do not need to read more learn about some Cyrus guy. We would rather care about how Dr. Patil created Cirrus Logic logic, his 84 year old Dad developed Devnagiri font in 1989.

Ask yourself how many patents you developed this month. How many new employees you hired this month? To sustain that growth you will realize dissolution of ego or Ananda.

Please try to understand that history is much more than books alone. The things in the past were very different from our perspectives today. Our wonderful history was not limited to the geographic boundaries of where the British and other colonialists stuck their flags so there is absolutely no point in arguing if Panini was Indian or Pakistani. If Gandhari of the Mahabharat came from Gandahar it does not make her Afghan. And our history may cover the whole of central Asia long before legends became embedded into the huge baggage of myths that all priests incorporated into all religions as they evolved.

The `religion' of all these people was neither Hinduism or Islam that were of much more recent origin. There was mostly anamist tribal worship of local deities that is still very widely practiced. The rulers were mainly Buddhist for 1000 years from Ashoka to Harshavardhan with the exception of a short 147 year Gupta period in a part of North India. The Rulers were mostly Muslim from the 12th to 18th Century and then British for 200 years. So India had never been a Hindu country till 1947.

The word Hindu had earlier beeen just a geographic expression meaning the natives of the land of the Sindhu (or Hindu as Cyrus the Great had defined in the 6th century BC). It was anly used as the name for a religion after Ram Mohun Roy just 200 years ago. And as a Religion there were huge differences between the Hinduism of the Vedas, the Puranas and in other periods.

This Article is about the characters of two great but imperfect Emperors and we need to get back to that theme.

Murad

Yaar, it's not fair to pile on baig sahib. One can perfectly well expect that many Indian kings etc, in their wars, destroyed whatever religious iconery/temples/stupas etc of their political foes. And in political fights, people of different groups, including between buddhists and non-buddhists (since there were no Hindus then) suffered.

What is unlikely is that people were extirpated and killed en masse, across large parts of India, in the name of religion or for their religious beliefs per se - definitely not for buddhist beliefs.

May be it happened, but is quite unlikely. And if baig sahib shows us how and when that happened - mass killings of buddhists for following the Buddha (instead of being brahmins and kshatriyas, for example), leading to extinction of Buddhism from almost everywhere in India - that will be a great service to every one.

#124 muradbaig

[For references and bibliography read my book:

REFLECTIONS IN A SACRED POND]

Of course. I guessed as much...

If you have the time to be posting long posts on Chowk, you definitely have the time to defend your assertions with specific references - just mention your point, and also the book/article etc. that validates it.

Reading through your whole book, finding out where you made those points, and then crosschecking against your bibliography is a mammoth task.

Put up your evidence or admit that you have none.

Muradbaig

"For references and bibliography read my book"
Earlier I asked you for references (page number/article) when you wrote similar unsubstantiated research in your "India unvarnished" article. I have no intention of spending money on your book. Would you be kind enough to provide good references?

PS: Meahwhile also do a time-line study of Adi Shankra, and Angkorwat temples and explain how Buddhists were able to take over hindu temples 3 centuries after Shankara.

Re: # 135

"2. The Nehruvian period which berated the Hindu religion (much of it well deserved!) and presented Muslim rule as benevolent towards Hindus?
"

First of all there is no such thing as Hindu religion. It was all hypocritical. Was ever Sanatan Dharma taught or studied? How many studied patanjali Yoga Sutra, Bhagwad Geeta, Vashishta Geeta and Katho Upanishad. We all missed on that. Instead of history we should have relied on Itihaas.

muradbaig#124:

"many people are also guided by well sanitized school history books"


Which sanitised history books are you referring to:

1. The British period school texts which exaggerated Black Hole and downplayed "Sepoy Mutiny"?
2. The Nehruvian period which berated the Hindu religion (much of it well deserved!) and presented Muslim rule as benevolent towards Hindus?
3. The short-lived Manohar Joshi rewrite which demonised Muslims? or
4. The latest arjun-singh rewrite?

From the demographics of Indian chowkies, most of them would have been taught the second version.

Muradbaig:

"For references and bibliography read my book"


So, you are your own reference. That's really impressive!


You did not answer the question:Why is there no embedded memory of such savagery among Hindus, Buddhists and Jains?


guru:

The metallurgy pillar is not the kutub minar, it is called the Ashoka pillar, located next to the qutub minar.

Re: # 132: So Paki own Panini? Do you name Sahitya Academy in his honor? How many PhDs dissertations on him and his grammar?

Pakis are middle-eastern by choice. Why don't you vacate the occupied land of present day Pakistan and head back to Mecca?

Re: # 131
You may have few one hit wonders in 5000 years of history.remember panini was from attock,learn some geography.