The Sangh Octopussy

#149 #150....
Govt., with limited resource can not control mob frenzy all the times. When you see more than 1 lakh people participating in an incident, how will you tell the police to take stern action against such a huge mob? It is not possible....

Re: # 120
DM...

"The Sikh issues with Hindus are the opposite of what you suggest, they resent Hindus not respecting their separate identity...."

Indians (Hindus) don't recognise Jains, Buddhists....as separate identity as well. An outright atheist like Buddha, was taken in Hinduism as avatar of Vishnu or Sakya Muni....
Sir, Indians/Hindus are so large hearted, they generaly try to include everything within their fold...That is why the concept of India is still very much alive...a Madrasi will defend his Sardarji counterpart, though they crack joke about each other in their private parties....

Re: # 151
Kamath...
Cool down my friend. It is not the matter of Bajrangees alone. What these fellows (BD) are doing in Gujrat and Karnataka is very bad. But the incidents in Kandhamal is something different.....Tribal are killing tribals not at the instance of people of Nagpur. It is survival of their culture and getting rid of deception from the Christian Missionaries....Unless and until, Govt. ensures that, the tribals, who are under payroll of Vatican, is not extended Govt. benefits as tribals, the war will intensify....The Govt. has to take some action, which benefits tribals, without loosing their identity....
Sangh, with it's vandalism, is the only organisation, who can threaten islamic militants....

Re: # 128 krishna_abcd;

You seem to relishe &-penises as you write in your post. Send me your address to me. I shall send post haste few things that oozes from mine for your morning breakfast. Then you can go and beat some helpless minorities- with your Bajrang buddies.

Kamath

DM # 149,
Indeed the actions of the hindu zealots and the inability of the state machinery to stop these violent acts are condemnable and should be put an end to quickly. But then, when has our state ever effectively prevented such violence from happening? I recall Punjab, the anti-sikh violence, Ram Janmbhoomi- Babri masjid, bombay riots etc. We all know that if the state machinery wanted to, they could have prevented or atleast stopped it. Do you think that perhaps due to the government's suspect intentions, the people finally take law in their own hands?
But then that brings us to another topic for other time i.e. the defeat of upholding the constitutional rights of individuals by the government while pandering to the most primeval instinct of survival of a group defined by ethnic, religious or caste lines.
When the government can publicly state that the possible cause of islamic terrorism is alienation of muslims in the society, I often wonder why the same explanation is not warranted in orrisa. This has been brewing for the last 15-20 years and no one cares, effectively alienating the tribes there.
Adios

Maharana#147:

I agree with you and am not insensitive to the underlying causes and concerns as you mentioned. In my other articles and interacts, I have frequently expressed sympathy and support for those concerns. However, if the media are not doing their job (although there are quite a few in print journalism who are doing a fair job) or if some overzealous missionaries are stepping out of bounds, one could understand people protesting outside the media outlets or some hot heads giving a thrashing to that priest but, as you agree, this does not justify burning of churches or killing of Christians?

there is something to be said about conversion..let us say a destitute gets help from a mission, gets a fishing rod and learns to fish. now, he can clearly recognize the pivotal event which is further reinforced by the new religious community. a destitute may get help from a local considerate man (as was the practice in indian villages, who would feed orphans routinely..indeed the village always ensured that brhmin orphan kids never missed out on education) but without a conversion and new community to belong to, the significance of the pivot is blurred. there have been counteless home-brew missionaries e.g. one karve who lead womens education and widow resettlement, some amte baba who ran a massive lepers colony and so on, but they are not to be confused with the power of religious missionary work.

person belongs to a new community with a renewed vigor, gives back to the "alma mater", indeed becomes a gaji for the new community and spreads the message of new light. now these mechanisms, this zeal, this vigor are simply missing in home-brew shyte.

nkg # 143,

"Comparing RKM with Missionaries of Charity is like comparing IIT Kanpur with Red Mosque of Pakistan.."

You know that the indian media has done a wonderful job in painting just the opposite. No wonder that according to a poll in India people respect Mother T more than anyone else in the country. Only a few people who know these facts would affirm your views about the two organisations. You would be surprised that RKM's work of providing vocational training to the prostitutes (hindus and muslims alike) was shown in the US channels. I did some research later on to find out the extent of work RKM does and since then crossed over from the "illetrate/low life" you mention. Unfortunately this information is not available in indian media as readily on primetime networks. Therein lies my disgust for the indian media as just one more example of their incompetence and lack of the ability to think objectively and not follow the herd mentality. DM is right on to say that the paki media is far better than the indian media.
Despite the fact that all violence in the name of religion or anything is deplorable and that the christians in india should be protected, I think articles that merely gloss over the surface without studying the ground realities only add to the pent up frustration and mess up the situation further. I think to solve the problem, it is important to know the problem first.

Adios

tahmed@123:

This figures cannot be added as some people would have memberships in multiple organizations. Also, wikipedia is not always an authoritative source in these matters.

Tahmed # 132,

Thanks for your response and accepting the facts. It takes courage to accept facts contrary to one's held views.

Adios

#131...
Mother T is respected but not RKM...
Who are those people who respect Mother T and don't respect R K M? May be some illiterate low lives/ordinary lives....


R K M is of different league- I have not seen such institution in India so far. Far better managed than any Mutt and convent (with due respect to Loreto House etc...). The variety of programs they form for different section of society is un-imaginable...
For poor people in villages-cheap sanitation, pisciculture, sericulture, bio-fertiliser, training female SHGs, supporting primary education, in cities- computer training centres, ITIs, Polytechniques......

Re: # 129
Maharana....
Well posted....The blame should squarely go to R K Mission.
They were never media savy nor try to bring people in their fold with cheap publicity and colorful events....
During (so called) independence movement, Vivekanada was strictly against any political activities and even scolded sister Nivedita for attending Congress session. Though luminaries like Subhas Bose etc. were his followers, but none of the cow belt leaders (who later dominated central politics and Govt.), were ever involved in any of the R K M activities. Ramkrishna was very much against taking donation from business community and in several occations he had rejected financial assistance from prominant businessmen. So, R K Mission had lost the patronage of Birlas and Bajajs etc... as well as Congress leaders....CPI(M) tried to destroy the organisation several times. But ultimately failed ( such a strong value system)....

For Missionaries of Charity, Mother Teresa was USP ( Unique Selling Point) and she had sold indian poverty to the western people and church to collect money. It was no doubt good effort. But the effect of this work is very minimal. Travel 5 KM outside Kolkata, you will see no trace of it's work. Anyhow, R K Mission do not depend upon press publicity. Neither it arranges colorful events etc...It is of different league, different intellectual level....

The alumni of the schools/colleges run by R K M is enough for R K Mission....Comparing RKM with Missionaries of Charity is like comparing IIT Kanpur with Red Mosque of Pakistan....

There is a nice biography of Ramkrishna by Nobel Lauriate (Literature-1915) Romaine Rolland (France). He was Ramakrishn'a ardent disciple (Like Vivekananda). Majority of the indians need to reach upto that intellectual level to know and appreciate RKM.....
I know couple of IIT toppers joined RKM just after completetion of their PhD ( Integrated PhD)...You can see the VYC (Vivekananda Youth Circles) in many engineering colleges and IIT Chennai...


Regarding Tahmed's comment...he is inbred retard. I don't see any point to take his words seriously regarding R K M.... His level is upto the 7th century arab beduine, his camels, wives, 72 virgins, heaven, how islam brings universal brotherhood (and punish infidels and collect extortion money.....)- middle eastern stupidity and barbarism...

#103 Posted by Eklavya

I am a secular humanist. I think God/Gods was/were created by man in His own image. I am sure you have seen the movie Planet of the Apes (1968.

If one attributes nature’s wonders to a ‘Creator’, it is OK with me. I have no problem with any religious person as long as he does not impose his views on me.

Here are two favorite Bertrand Russell quotes:
“Christians hold that their faith does good, but other faiths do harm. At any rate, they hold this about the Communist faith. What I wish to maintain is that all faiths do harm. We may define 'faith' as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. When there is evidence, no one speaks of 'faith.' We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence.�

“The standpoint of modern liberal theologians is well set forth by Dr. Tennant in his book The Concept of Sin. to him sin consists in acts of will that are in conscious opposition to a known law, the moral law being known by Revelation as God's will. It follows that a man destitute of religion cannot sin�

Re #125 Posted by Kamath on

Who filtered that comment of Kamath???

Why does anybody needs to filter any comment???

Which is more important hospital built by Aga Khan /ram Krishna or Satff (nurses doctors Technicians).I think the people running the Hospital Schools Are servfull and serving more than the insitution named after

And some time these bilding of Instituion are not at all altruistic
.

#130 pinku: maharana already advised me on this, and i already acknowledged below. but thanks anyway.