Zarrar Said January 20, 2009
#3 Posted by TehminaTanveer on February 6, 2009 1:48:21 am
Was an interesting read, although it touches upon the age old nature versus nurture argument. One could bring in the case of operant conditioning- modification of voluntary behavior through various consequences, namely reinforcement and punishment. Learning under operant conditioning is dictated by adaptation of behavior due to exposure to the various consequences resulting from responses to stimuli, which form the core basis of this type of conditioning. Operant conditioning is clearly dependent on the adaptation of behavior to get suitable consequences. With repeated exposures to the similar conditions, the responses become permanent, as Thorndike observed in his cat-in-the-puzzle experiments [“Thorndike’s puzzle boxes and the Origins of the experimental Analysis of Behavior�, Paul Chance; Journal of Experimental Analysis of Behavior #3: Pg 433-440 (November 1999)].
These consequences dictate the type of response the subject will exhibit, adapting its behavior according to the factors of effectiveness of consequences, as stated above. The adaptive nature of behavior helps the subjects to consciously learn over the period of time. The duration of exposure to such cause and effect relation will make the learning long term, bring in permanent adaptation in case of future recurrences. Thus the article was a good twist on the use of genetics to explain behavior i.e. altruism, it didn’t however consider the case where behavior is inured or the fact that education and awareness of the consequences of ones actions makes one more rational than selfish.
There is also the philosophical perspective. The reason why man entered into a social contract was because he wanted to let go of the state of nature. Now what is the state of nature? It was the state in which man had the right to everything and everybody. He could have been selfish and greedy without consequence but still, man chose to enter the social contract and under the sovereign gave up natural rights for civil rights under which he could no longer afford to be selfish. So what does this tell you about man? It tells you how man is inherently anything but selfish.
These consequences dictate the type of response the subject will exhibit, adapting its behavior according to the factors of effectiveness of consequences, as stated above. The adaptive nature of behavior helps the subjects to consciously learn over the period of time. The duration of exposure to such cause and effect relation will make the learning long term, bring in permanent adaptation in case of future recurrences. Thus the article was a good twist on the use of genetics to explain behavior i.e. altruism, it didn’t however consider the case where behavior is inured or the fact that education and awareness of the consequences of ones actions makes one more rational than selfish.
There is also the philosophical perspective. The reason why man entered into a social contract was because he wanted to let go of the state of nature. Now what is the state of nature? It was the state in which man had the right to everything and everybody. He could have been selfish and greedy without consequence but still, man chose to enter the social contract and under the sovereign gave up natural rights for civil rights under which he could no longer afford to be selfish. So what does this tell you about man? It tells you how man is inherently anything but selfish.
#2 Posted by zarrar2 on January 21, 2009 8:21:56 pm
VRV
thank you for your post. you are always very positive on my articles. I actually didn't think about the common predator thing, although its very common in every aspect, work, history, love, etc. People in politics use it constantly. A prime example, india and pakistan, israel and palestine, etc.
thank you for your post. you are always very positive on my articles. I actually didn't think about the common predator thing, although its very common in every aspect, work, history, love, etc. People in politics use it constantly. A prime example, india and pakistan, israel and palestine, etc.
#1 Posted by VRV on January 21, 2009 5:15:25 pm
Mr. Said,
Well researched & written.
1. A stone age man would attack another man but if both of them face a predator like a cheetah then both would join hands to attack the 'common' threat.
Even wild buffalos showed solidarity like we do in this video. This is the real event @ Kruger National park
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
Is this an act of goodness or an act of 'solidarity' towards its species?
I guess 'self preservation & perpetuation' principle is hard-wired into all living beings.
2. Some animals show peculiar habits. For eg you mentioned penguins. The level of altruism among penguins can be explained from the harshness of the environment they live.
Another peculiar habit is that of nightingales who lay eggs in the nests of crows. I dont' know how they manage maternal duties with such 'habit' of laying eggs elsewhere.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ceQr90C0Em0
In this video above the predator ignores the pregnant baboon that's killed for food but takes care of the baby baboon that takes birth. Though both are of different species the motherly instinct of leopard overtakes her hunger & treats the baby baboon as her baby. Food is a necessity but this leopard overcame with motherly affection. It's another case of extreme altruism. I don't know what researchers or you say about this.
3. 'Conclusively, we are good because we are selfish beings. We want what is best for us, our families, friends, society, and culture.'
If we draw concentric circles to represent the groups you mentioned - starting with a point representing the self - we can understand 'our' behaviour. We act like a unit in each case and respond to external stimuli. There're shared needs, fears & threats. A threat to family becomes 'our' threat. A prize for our city becomes 'our' prize etc.,
It's being good to oneself i.e. 'self-welfare' principle underlies & regulates the behaviour of all living beings with exceptions (penguins in Antarctica, leopard & baby baboon).
Well researched & written.
1. A stone age man would attack another man but if both of them face a predator like a cheetah then both would join hands to attack the 'common' threat.
Even wild buffalos showed solidarity like we do in this video. This is the real event @ Kruger National park
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM
Is this an act of goodness or an act of 'solidarity' towards its species?
I guess 'self preservation & perpetuation' principle is hard-wired into all living beings.
2. Some animals show peculiar habits. For eg you mentioned penguins. The level of altruism among penguins can be explained from the harshness of the environment they live.
Another peculiar habit is that of nightingales who lay eggs in the nests of crows. I dont' know how they manage maternal duties with such 'habit' of laying eggs elsewhere.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ceQr90C0Em0
In this video above the predator ignores the pregnant baboon that's killed for food but takes care of the baby baboon that takes birth. Though both are of different species the motherly instinct of leopard overtakes her hunger & treats the baby baboon as her baby. Food is a necessity but this leopard overcame with motherly affection. It's another case of extreme altruism. I don't know what researchers or you say about this.
3. 'Conclusively, we are good because we are selfish beings. We want what is best for us, our families, friends, society, and culture.'
If we draw concentric circles to represent the groups you mentioned - starting with a point representing the self - we can understand 'our' behaviour. We act like a unit in each case and respond to external stimuli. There're shared needs, fears & threats. A threat to family becomes 'our' threat. A prize for our city becomes 'our' prize etc.,
It's being good to oneself i.e. 'self-welfare' principle underlies & regulates the behaviour of all living beings with exceptions (penguins in Antarctica, leopard & baby baboon).
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