Islamabad Nagging

The Muslims in India are not discriminated as described by your cousin in Patna. Why then do the percentage of Muslims candidates who get accepted to IAS, IPS services the same as any other religious community - meaning if x% of Hindu applicants are acceptred then x% of candidates are acepted for all other religious groups as well, including Muslims.
The problem is that the Muslims in the Indian suncontinent did not take to modern education unlike the other religious groups.
I am an IIT alumni and let me tell you that in my batch of 300 we had about 8-10 Christians, 7-8 Parsis, 5 Sikhs and only 5 Muslims even though the Muslim population is much much larger than Sikhs, Christians and Parsis. The IIT exam is one of the most honest and credibly conducted exams not only in India but the world. PLEASE understand the real situation before you make absurd comments.
Why does Sharukh Khan say 'He has never experienced discrimination as a Muslim?" India has had Muslim justices, Muslim Generals, Muslims as heads of corporations, Muslim president. I can go on and on.

Satish Joglekar

I would also like to add that I don't agree with differentiation between 'migrant workers' and 'indigenous people'. (If people claim to be of Afghan and Turkish descent, are they still indigenous, btw?)

#148- CreateAlpha-

You are absolutely right about 800 lb thugs!

With promulgation of Islamic law in Malakund (Swat) Pakistanis find themselves in a state of profound crisis. It is a complex, multi-dimensional crisis whose facets touch every aspect of our lives ---- our health and livelihood, the quality of our environment and our social relationships, our ideology, our economy, and politics. It is a crisis of intellectual, moral, and spiritual dimensions; a crisis of a scale and urgency unprecedented in 63 years history of Pakistan.

What an irony – this system that blindly follows 1400 years old jurisprudence will dispense justice. This is major victory for Jamaat-e-Islami, Taliban, and other self-proclaimed champions of Islam. With this capitulation, government of Pakistan has subjugated men, and mostly women to a set of rules that has send Pakistan back to dark ages. I say dark ages because inequality retards not only the advancement of women but the progress of civilization itself. This is exactly what mullahs have always wanted. Not that women in other parts of Pakistan are emancipated, but those from this Swat will be denied due process, and human dignity. Case in point: video of the Swati girl who was publicly flogged by Taliban thugs.

Mr. Cheema,

Just to reconfirm my assumptions, I called my cousin in Patna who completed MSc in Physics, from JNU. He is not alone- I know many other lower middle class Muslims who have worked really, really hard to no avail. Muslims are are not offered the same payscale as their Hindu counterparts. There is a systemtic repression of Muslims in India and we can't just right that off.

And, no Sir, I am not suggesting that we compare miseries of Pakistan with that of India.

A very wiseman once said, "crap is crap- cow's is no better than 800 lb gorilla."

Regards,

#134, Just wanted to tell you that Bhopal state formed only a small part of today's MP.
Most Muslim leaders in MP at least do not appear interested in being leaders of the entire community; they focus on issues that do not interest non-Muslims, and yes, much of their discourse is about victimhood. When SIMI activists are caught in MP, the first reaction of these leaders is generally' "It's all a conspiracy". I cannot think of one popular Muslim leader throughout Madhya Pradesh. Isn't this the fault of the Muslim leaders themselves? Why does anyone expect to be made a leader?

#146 Posted by akcheema on April 19, 2009 6:30:15 am

well said...ever wonder why slumdog millionaire didn't have a jihadi ending? I've seen the poor of dharavi..both hindus and muslims...they are equally hard working and equally eager to see their kids study in english medium schools...

There is nothing wrong with comparisons....afterall the two countries are related by history, people and cultures. What is wrong is not to notice the divergent paths the two countries are on. If you are going to recognize the same-same, then do also recognize the different different.

Pakistan had admirers in south koreans in the 60's. I don't think anyone would envy pakistan now. That recognition and catharsis needs to occur. Barring a few...most pakistanis-even purported secular ones- would never attempt to acknoledge the 800lb gorilla in the room....Islam. It is not beyond reproach. Perhaps that is why the country is going backwards...the imprint of the religion has thwarted common sense.

Re: # 146

.... especially given the zeal you showed in creating the 'same-same' comparison between the BJP and the Taliban ... what happens in a 'foreign' country (India in this case), is none of our business ... what happens in ours (Pakistan) is every bit our business ... and that is the issue here

do we keep 'satisfying' ourselves by finding some examples in India that things 'arent as bad' or do we face up to the REALITY that 'things are really very bad indeed'! ...

... I leave you to answer that for yourself

Re: # 145

you called my 'assumption' flawed without providing an 'evidence' that wasn't just 'circumstancial'!! ... I find that astounding!

you go and visit the 'self-styled ghettos' in the UK and you'll get the same feel ... that these 'poor-people' are hard done to etc ... this 'victim-mentality' is what the whole premise of the 'jihad against all' business thrives on

reality is that the same opportunities exist for all ... those who are poor are naturally disadvantaged (in any society ... regardless of religion) ... just so happens more of the muslims happen to be poor and they are 'competing'! ... question is if there is anything 'systematic' that preferentially makes a segment of population poor? ... answers that I have found in most parts of the world (that are democratic) are .. NO

.. hence the extrapolation I made

since you advertised yourself as a 'non-believer in organised religion', if you wrote any articles about the 'disadvantages' faces by religious and ethnic minorities in Pakistan, they sure have missed my attention

Cheema Sahab,
{and they do ... they only have to have a willingness to 'participate' and avail those opportunities}

Sir your assumption is flawed. When was the last time you were in India? Which urban and rural city did u visit?

Those who are compassionate defend all oppressed people - Muslims in India don't have a fair share. And, to say they have equal opportunity is rather sad. Hope you will reconsider.

Regards,

#140 Posted by imalick on April 19, 2009 5:34:43 am


But, these 150 MILLION MUSLIMS in India never left their homeland. They deserve equal opportunity.


Equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome. I'm not saying muslims have it great in India. they don't...but if south asia's only muslim billionaire is azim premji, there are plenty of opportunities...

perhaps muslims themselves share some of the blame?

Arjun ... many thanks for posting those graphs just at the right time! ... kudos

I am sure you know the point I am trying to make here

#131 Posted by imalick

"Muslims in India represent ~14% of society by Indian prisons have ~40% muslim population. The Muslim literacy and poverty rates ranks well below the national average. Fewer than 5 percent have government jobs and make up only 4 percent of the undergraduate student body in India's elite universities. Muslims fall behind other groups in terms of access to credit, despite the fact that Muslims are self-employed at a far higher rate than other groups."

You are right, statistically speaking. But what you don't seem to appreciate is that this is the direct outcome of the syndrome that Narendra Modi prefers to call "HUM PAANCH, HAMARE PACHIS" Reckless multiplication of population, putting guinea pigs to shame, has its own fallouts. Speak about the charity, you see huge masjids coming up in the cities, but the poor muslim children who form beeline in front of the marriage pandals are shooed away while their guests are served with ice cream. Family planning is dubbed as anti islam. The Government is egged on to increase haj subsidy rather than increase the number of schools.
Religious that they are, they prefer to send their children to Urdoo schools without realising they are playing with the future of their children. What job will it fetch them with such qualification? The sequel is that they take to crime and obviously get jailed for their acts. This is why the rate of muslims prisoners is high.

The muslims are still trying to live in the 7th century and firmly believe that the 'RISQ' is given by Allah and their job is only to produce children.

Re: # 140; mallick

[[But, these 150 MILLION MUSLIMS in India never left their homeland. They deserve equal opportunity. ]]

and they do ... they only have to have a willingness to 'participate' and avail those opportunities ... that's what I am saying ... sometimes it is the 'un-willingness' to avail those opportunities that makes people 'stagnant' in evolutionary terms

... sometimes there ARE difficulties (we are all humans afteall) but it is our ability (as a group) to overcome those hurdles that counts

AKCheema Sahab- I do not support any form of organized religion, therefore, I am not defending Muslims by any stretch of imagination. I am only suggesting that we use appropriate framework when talking about indeginous people vs. immigrants. When you migrate, you should assimilate. Absolutely agreed!

But, these 150 MILLION MUSLIMS in India never left their homeland. They deserve equal opportunity.

The graph below is of % of people with no educational qualifications.