Compilation of Opinions on the Military Takeover in Pakistan

INTENTS ARE NOW CLEARER

After 48 days of illegimate takeover of power in Pakistan by the armed forces, each day makes the intents of the so called fair deal military rulers, more and more obvious. Jernaile Mussrraf and his touts couldn`t find a single corruption case against Nawaz Sharif, the legal Prime Minister of Pakistan. But to get rid of him, the jernailes instructed their employee, a colonel to lodge a report (FIR) for flight 805 hijack. What are you trying to prove jernaile ji? Well, this is his style of accountability, of course inspired by Zia-ul-Haq, jernaile Musharraf is inclined towards elimination of Mr. Sharif for good. ``Hang him`` said the drunk jernaile after his routine Friday night booze. Musharraf may be feeling very secure after having sent all his family members to USA, including his only son, Bilal. But those who are unjust and unfair to their own country and people, shall be doomed anyway, no matter where they are. Jernaile Ji, you have acted against the constitution of Pakistan, who gave you that right? You are artificially popular in the intelligence agenicies books through phony gallop polls conducted by newspapers under your control, in real life you are a villian. You belong to the same lot that killed our first prime minister, RLA khan; hanged the second prime minister ZA Bhutto; got the third prime minister convicted; and are now aiming at hanging the legal prime minister, democratically authorised ruler of Pkaistan, Mian Nawaz Sharif. Our all these years, army has shown no respect for the people`s representative. The pakistan army generals somehow still beleive themselves to be superior, still living in a fools paradise, a part of ruling British army that conspired with the fuedals and treated my people like animals. But we are sure, that this time we will make the difference, and we shall see the jernailes hung by their necks. The world shall see you and your team end in hell. Insallah.

Bye bye Jernaile Ji

Rahat

Soldotna: ``The Red Barons of Pakistan, Sharifs and Bhuttos and others, however corrupt they may have been, did benefit the general populace overall.`` You must be joking.

I agree with the excellent analysis by Zeemaz/Concerned. Another coup d`etat is in the offing. Honeymoon will be over by the end of November. And another turd will try a fellow turd for hijacking Flight 805. As Zemax has pointed out in an earlier posting, if Sharif wanted to prevent Mush from coming back to Pakistan from Ceylon, there were a lot of other sneakier ways to do it.

Any and every nation goes through the ``corruption`` stage before it fully matures. US had its Red Barons like Carnegie and Ford and Mellons. It took close to one hundred years before US fully

matured. However, US economy benefitted from these Red Barons. Just look around at Sigapores and Japans and Koreas. The Red Barons of Pakistan, Sharifs and Bhuttos and others, however corrupt they may have been, did benefit the general populace overall. These Turds and Mullahs must bear patience and give these barons a chance and let Pakistan go through the phases towards full maturation as any other nation or country has. USA did not get there today where it is in fifty years either. It took almost a hundred years.

Soldotna in Alaska

Re :Contributer formally known as Concerned !

Indeed no more elected premiers will be executed in this country. The people will make sure of that. No two bit self-serving randi-baaz boozer rogues in uniform can succeed in doing that after they succeeded with ZA Bhutto. The people will hang first these uniforms once the opium of the 16th November wears off and reality begins to sink in. Let the trial of the aircraft case be open and transparent to let the people know about the lies like how much fuel was left on the aircraft amongst others. Six minutes stuff makes me puke. Let the people know who it was who hijacked the aircraft alongwith his pet dogs inside the cockpit of PK 805...

Alas my words are coming true sooner than I thought. Islamabad`s Blue Area, the heart of Islamabad, has been rocked by remote controlled rocket launchers ( seven triggered in 2 minutes )installed in vehicles parked across from US installations.

There were 5 people wounded and no one was killed. Ambassador Milam`s comment is that at such close range it was possible to target the buildings directly but the perpetrators didn`t do it. So it was a display of the destructive capabality at hand .. a display of strength. Indeed the authorities are baffled as to how could such heavily armed vehicles enter the Capital and were parked across secure installtions.

Many friends will now recall the sudden surge in violence before NS was toppled. These things are never by coincidence. The preperation for the next coup has begun.

Islamabad

14-11-99

Subject: Clinton, Stay Home

The US Government is prating on about `benchmarks` that have to be met

before Bill Clinton can visit Pakistan next year. They are dead right. The

benchmarks are as follows:-

1. Clinton must personally apologise to the people of Pakistan for lending

unwarranted support to Nawaz Sharif and his gang of thieves.

2. The US Government must lift all sanctions against Pakistan and make

reparation to Pakistan for losses arising from these sanctions.

3. The US must deliver all equipment bought by Pakistan and illegally held

in the USA, and pay due penalties at commercial rates for financial and

opportunity losses accruing to Pakistan therefrom.

4. The USA must unequivocally declare that it supports the right of the

people of Jammu & Kashmir for self-determination under the relevant UN

resolutions.

5. The USA must declare that it supports the current endeavours of the

people of Pakistan to find a new and genuine democratic framework.

Regarding this last condition, it may be of interest to note that it took

the people of the original 13 States of the USA 13 years after the

Declaration of Independence in 1776 and 8 years after the surrender of the

British in 1881 to frame their Constitution and install George Washington

as first President in 1889. Pakistan today needs to cast away the poisoned

chalice of Westminster-style parliamentary `democracy` and (ironically)

seek a constitutional framework akin to that adopted by the American

people. Only a government that is not our friend will demand that we

hastily plaster on a `label of democracy` to satisfy what it sees as its

domestic public opinion. We will stand firm: that is not the kind of `black

label` that we want.

So, Mr Clinton, please don`t bother to come to Pakistan if you do not share

in our current happiness, relief and hope. You can go and visit those who

have been kicking you in the teeth for the last 50 years.

Yours truly,

Rizvan Ali,

36 Margalla Road,

F-8/3, Islamabad

92-51-262736

- The moral bankruptcy of the regime is more pronounced than financial bankruptcy. The witch hunt against companies and individuals is likely to reach is crescendo on the 17th.

- Gen Musharraf has stated that there will be a

``blast`` if not enough money is obtained. He should

know about blasting because he had a lot of good men and $1.6 billion blasted off in Kargil - and almost brought the entire region close to a radio active blast.

- Picking up small children to get their parents

to pay up sounds like kidnappers, extortionists and blackmailers are in charge. Just go on the human rights sites and see what a blast they are having !

- Incidently the danger of a full blast run on the banks is now building up as people have started withdrawing funds from the banks and moving valuables from lockers home - lest their savings get blasted out of the vaults.

Fidel

Fidel

UR & Irfan Whatever Dawn Industries!

You know what your problem is and when I say that I mean people from lower middle class with education....people like the uniformed turd who suddenly has raised himself to the the level ``Expert on International Affairs`` ......U think that you can do better and this press of the country which has exploited every single person who did good or bad for the country..........I know all the losers from all institutions ended up writing for the news papers and papers like Dawn who only write against the governament when it sells more or they are advised that fewer days are left for them(governament) to survive (help us get rid of em)........who doesnt know the way press works in the country every night the news is distributed among them at the local hotels for them to publish as it is...........this is besides the point..........but suggestion is physician heal thyself!

About NS who is no uncle or friend of mine by the way...........if you are from Lahore you would know this family has grown over the years and this guy use to drive Mercedes 450 SEL in early eighties much before he even became the finance minister............well you know what..........lets face it we all are corrupt and the worst are who would pay RS 500 to get their ID made but if the Business man pays accordingly to his ratio to get his loan approved from a corrupt banker or a beaurecrat.................see hush hush in it............No industry has ever been started on intiaters own many........gone are those days................and not all are sucessfull and the loans do go bad........but has anyone ever seen how many jobs these industries provided for the people of the country.................and countinue to do so...........every one of you use your influences everyday for get their kid admitted to getting their stuff go through the custom unchecked................and the press bratts use their press cards to harass people everyday day..............

I am justifying any misdoings of any body and if someone has done damamge to countries economy...........then they should account for it.................but no ``Uniformed Turd`` has a right to do that to the elected PM of Pakistan and what else can be funnier then the case that is being presented...........and when all else fails....start mud slingging...............and the families involved that how bad the sharif`s were to their business partners.........................is that nations concern.................You people are pathetic!

This nation doesnot deserve any better leader.............and what makes anyone think with after what they are doing to this guy who some economic vision anyone else will volunteer for this job..........He didnot creat IPP issue but was trying to solve it.............He didnt creat Kargil issue but was trying to solve it....................He didnot ask India to detinate the bomb either.................the condition of was based on several reasons and the biggest of all this Turds 1.5 billion dollar mistake............and ongoing serious expeditures on these good for nothing political generals.................

Last time when NS was let go.............the Stock market was its peak the best it has ever been...........and about this time.............

UR when next time you go to take a 3 hr exam I would like to be there..........45 minutes past I will cut off the power and also start screaming and yelling around you that you are bound to fail..................and then I will make others to join me in making that noise..........will have a shoot arranged as well..............so that the interest is maintained...........just past the hour I will start spreading the rumours that this exam is gonna end much earlier then the designated time and also create all kinds of panic.............and after 90 mintues I will come and slap u in the face and take your paper.............with just one comment...........I knew you would have failed anyways...........and by the way I am a sel proclaimed examiner..........with no experience or clue with either the exam/subject or even my own @ss!

How about that?

This time if some SOOOOB tried to kill the PM........and let me clearify our lad from Lahore.................that would be then end of geographical pakistan as we all know it!

Contributer Formerlly Known As Concerned

RE: QUERY REGARDING EJAZ UL HAQ.

- It is a publicly known fact that this guy has

a lot of money. Estimated to be between $150 to

$ 200 million cash. This is besides properties

and things like jewellery that his mother obtained

on visits to the middle east.

- Surprisingly the army goes along with this guy

because he is the son of the old boss. Most of

this generation of officers came up the ranks

in the Zia era so one can expect some defference

for the brat.

- As he is not a bank defaulter he is unlikely

to be asked to give up anything.

- He is also known to be very unreliable as far

as loyalties are concerned.

- He has however come up with a good suggestion that the assembly be summoned and an indemnity

bill be passed excusing the army from trashing

the constitution. He probably believes that this

will save them from contemplating killing Mr.

Sharif to prevent a future day of reckoning.

Fidel

Couldn`t have explained the situation better, myself.

DAWN-Pakistan:

For me, Nawaz Sharif is the very antithesis of a democrat: here is a man who was first made finance minister of Punjab by the then governor, General Jilani, and then elevated to chief ministership by Zia. Finally, with ISI funding, he became the prime minister. While climbing up the political ladder, he used his muscle to lean on nationalized banks to lend him and his family hundreds of millions until they became one of the biggest industrial groups in the country. Never sated, he continued milking the system even after he did not need any more money.

When people ask me how I can support a military coup against a democratically elected government, I reply (somewhat defensively) that this was the only possible way of getting rid of the man. Having neutered all the possible threats to his autocratic rule, he had turned his attention to the press, and it was only a matter of time before this last bastion of critical speech was muzzled. Given his lack of respect for democratic institutions, I have no doubt in my mind that he would have rigged the elections shamelessly when the time came. Having mounted a tiger, he just could not get off: after what he had done to the opposition, he could not afford the risk of being voted out of office and facing the same fate. The stake were just too high for him to suddenly see the light and become a true democrat.

Consider the man`s track record during the first half of his term: from having his goons storm the Supreme Court to having Najam Sethi of the Friday Times roughed up and held incommunicado for a month, he showed every sign of intolerance and fascism. But having said this, let me emnphasize that I do not regard military rule as a panacea: time and again, they have proved that they have no solutions to Pakistan`s highly complex problems. Each time they have seized power, they have left a bigger mess in their wake. Above all, once ensconced, they never leave of their own free will.

This, then, is the liberal dilemma: how to condone a military takeover and the overthrow of an elected government, even though Nawaz Sharif was acting more and more like his mentor, General Zia. In the liberal lexicon, army coups are automatically evil, while elected governments, no matter how corrupt and inefficient, are preferable to military juntas.

According to conventional wisdom, the cure for a poorly run democracy is more democracy, not less. This school of thought holds that no matter what their faults, both Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto should have been given a chance to discredit themselves to the point when they would be rejected by voters. At this point, a vibrant new leadership would emerge. Unfortunately, by the time this miracle took place, I doubt very much there would have been a country left for this breed of honest politicians to lead.

But as far as I am concerned, the fact that leaders of religious parties like Qazi Hussain Ahmed and Maulana Fazlur Rahman have begun opposing the military regime because it is liberal is ground enough for me to support it. I may not be clear about whom I am for, but I know who I am against.

(DAWN: Irfan Hussain)

Martial law is the worst thing that can happen to a country. Martial law administrator cannot expect

people to follow the law since he himself has broken the constitution. We hav`nt experienced democracy

because of our long association with military or quasi-military rule. Thats way all democratic

governments we experienced have been dictatorial in nature. Democracy takes a lot of time and patience

to florish. The journey for a perfect democratic system is painfull but in the end very effective. The

western countries has gone through the worse since they believed in the system and now they are

enjoying the fruits of democracy. On the other hand our people have been repeatedly fooled by our

military for the last 52 years. You can fool a nation once or twice but not for ever. But our nation is so

marvellous that it has been fooled for 52 years and still has`nt learnt from its mistake. So instead of

blaming the politicians for not knowing the spelling of democracy, we should look at ourself and ask ,

are we really literate? After 52 years we don`t even know our destiny. Are we really a failed nation?

It is the army who has failed us and those ignorant masses who celebrate whenever a democratic elected

government is uncounstitutionally removed. Army has a habit of counqering our nation every 10-20 year.

It destroys all democractic norms that flourished in its absence. The Indophobia we inherited since our

creation is also the reason behind this mess. Only people has to decide the fate of out nation. No

mard-e-momin of khlifa would help. The reason for all this mess in Pakistan is because peoples opinion

has been voilated every now and then by military and its pawns. For a country entering 21st century,

having a system even looked downed upon by ancient Greeks is a shame. Shame on Pakistan nation!

Gen.Musharaf did the right thing.There is nothing more that can be said about this episode.

Mamur Mustapha.

It`s quite ironic. Nawaz Sharif will be tried by the same Anti-Terrorist Courts he set up. I think they will get him for endagering the lives of passengers, but not for hijacking and murder.

By the way, does any one have any information about this guy, Ejaz-ul-Haq. What else has he done in his life apart from being the son of Zia-ul-Haq? He seems to always be in the news.

General is Proving his ``Mutterness``.

Yesturday a case was registered by the military regime against Prime Minister (under unlawfull detention)Mian Mohammad Nawaz Sharif and eight others for conspiring to kill dismissed jernaile Mutterraf G. Last week in his interview to BBC Urdu (Audio recording available at BBC website) jernaile Mutterraf declared that he was not a vindictive person. Now this case reflects his intentions and confirms my fears that I had voiced at this forum earlier. Jernaile Ji everybody cannot be Zana-ul-Haq nor can Sharif-ud-din Pirzada do miricales all the times; also it is not 1977. The TRUTH remains that you jernaile Mutterraf were dismissed by the lawfull and democratically elected prime Minister of Pakistan, but you and your SSG group personnel revolted and overthrew the elected government of Pakistan. When Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif came to know about your touts revolt, he ordered directing your airplane to land at NawabShah with orders to arrest you, and ensure that you obey the orders. But you jernaile Mutter G. yourself went to the cockpit of the airliner, and instructed the pilot to circle around Karachi airport until allowed to land. You general Mutter G, had then snatched the microphone-headphone set from the co-pilot and insisted on Karachi airport tower on the wireless that the plane was not going to NawabShah but will land here, ``Only here and nowhere else``. I wish people in the airplane can speak out the truth. It is you general Mutter G. who risked the lifes of the 200 passengers, and have now held the whole nation hostage to your ambitions. It is jernaile Mutter G. who should be tried for treason and not Nawaz Sharif, the elected Prime Minister of Pakistan. Now we are gonna see the flash backs of Zana-ul-Haq era, who during his 11 years rule wasted energies to destroy the PPP. But became of him, his remains were just his ``Jabrah``. Jernaile Mutter G, you will go to HELL, as your predeccessor jernaile Zana-ul-Haq did. INSALLAH.

Roohi Allah Ditta

BAHMED#75.

Thanks, we can not expect the world to change overnight. A beginning is to be made, direction to be set.

Opinions/ UR #74/73

Something like SECULAR Bharat?

Churchil, Eisenhower, De’Gaule, Fiedel Castro, Marshall Tito, General Franco to name a few of the turds, if however our experience has been of the worst, but you never know.

Speaking of traffic lights, first and foremost duty is to avoid a catastrophe, legalities are secondary.

Let him be the Sardar ji who after having saved a drowning dame asked, “menu dhukka kaon ditta? Who pushed me into the water?

tariqlodi

-Reference Chowkidar agenda - some reflections:

You mentioned very dracaonian punishments for loan

defaulters. General Musharraf also said yesterday

that if people do not pay back by the 17th there

will be a blast. Well one opinion is that this

guy is going to be put on top of a ghauri missile

blasted somewhere. It could be the closet taliban

generals waiting in the wings wanting to let

him be the fall guy. I have no problem with him

being drunk in the evening but he is expected to be sober at day time.

In regard to the matter of default: Son, lot of

business operations fail - just like military

operations. In the third world this is more likely

to happen for variety of reasons that primarily

include government policies. While I am not

denying the fact that people have defrauded banks

or were ill intentioned - but defining a willful

defaulter is quite difficult even for the bankers.

Our economy has been slipping into a recession

for serveral years now. Some international factors

and a lot of domestic factors as well. Fundamentally we have been living beyond means

and supporting a big wasteful and corrupt government apparatus that has been directly and

indirectly spending borrowed money. Plus we have

been supporting a huge military machine that costs

a hell of a lot of money. There is also reason to

suspect that one of the factors that led the

army to decide that the civilians should be ousted

was that they say it coming that the defence

allocations would have to be slashed as there was

no money left. They probably did not think it was

important to work out a strategy that would have

maintained a military posture at the same levels

in lesser funds.

Infact the critical failing has been that they

did not a allow this kind of debate. If Musharraf

allows this I will be convinced that this is the

guy we have been waiting for.

We are unable to generate funds to support the

latter two - obvious brought on by this kind

of spending binge. On top of it we have not spent

any substantial money or had the systems in place

to educate our manpower that could have supported

an economy running on software, high tech value

added work and what have you.

The nuclear program was developed as a sequal to

the emerging resouce contstraints because the

leaders then - Mr.Bhutto included - realised that

we could not maintain a military posture that

provided the balance of power with India beyond

a point. So perhaps the nuclear program was ``a``

solution to freezing the status quo. I would

have done the same.

Coming back to the default thing. The actual

default figures are estimated to be $2.8 billion.

Even this figure has been doubted in a recent

analysis. The figures are apparently cooked up by

the State Bank to con the IMF and includes interest that has not really accrued. This figure

includes a lot of government commercial operations.

We are in the hoc to the tune of 30 billion dollars plus. Where did the other 27 billion go ?

He is not talking about that.

Another point - just to make you think while you

are on guard duty - there is also serious concern

about the IMF treatment and the fact that there

seems to be something stange happening. The banks

are orchestrating forced bankruptcies. I find

that very suspicious because there is a growing

body of literature suggesting that this is part

of scam to acquire Pakistani industrial assets,

banks and infrastructure and 10% value by western

interests. Writings about this ``scam`` have been

published by western economists - not the mullahs,

pinkos and crooks. The statement by the American

Ambassador the other day did give out the latter

odour.

The kind of witchhunt and pogrom being planned is

going to have frightful consequences. Our ecomomy

is likely to collapse with catastropic consequences and the costs are going far exceed

what we may gain. Just wait and see...

Fidel