Caste, Technology and Religious Conversions in India

unkaljay:

``A mechanical net nanny award to punch anNy when she uses, ji, unkal etc``

i love you very much also

Ref 12-head-Shah #: 93

[Thats right you god knows who(brahmin,christian,dalit,wannabe brahmin shudra..who knows)most of your brahmins ,i have out witted,outperformed & competed out from Pondicherry to Pillani.]

I breathlessly await the day your name is announced as the winner of the Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine.

By any chance, if you are in Michigan, do you think you can join the Headshrinker to form Quacky & Wacky PC?

Ref Prem #53:

Let us see what Gail Omvedt actually said:

[But there are divisions among the new {Dalit} radicals, both at the personal level and at the levels of class and profession, apart from the traditional levels of caste. There are the traditional antagonisms of Mahars versus Mangs in Maharashtra, Madigas versus Malas in Andhra, Chuhras versus Chamars in Uttar Pradesh, Paraiyas versus Pallars in Tamil Nadu and this continues in new names and forms.]

Soy Sauce (why Chinese soy sauce, why not the native kari-kuzhambu as your handle?), in your beloved Tamil Nadu, it is Paraiyas versus Pallars.... both castes are Untouchables.... what are they fighting for.... probably for crumbs left over after the Mudaliars and Chettiars have grabbed all the opportunities supposedly given to the Scheduled Castes and Tribes.

Let me tell you a little bit more about all these idiots who cry themselves hoarse over how Tamil as a language is discriminated against and how Tamilians are at the bottom of the heap. Let us take the Nattukkottai Nagarathars, Chettiars by caste. They consider themselves to be descendants of North Indian immigrants (specifically, the Seths). And marry among themselves so that they can keep their wealth ill-gotten by charging DAILY interest rate of 2.5%. And the people who paid these atrocious interest rates? The landless laborer of Tamil Nadu who borrowed money for weddings, etc. Where were the Muslims with prohibitions of interest? I would gladly hand over these Chettiars to them to behead.

These Chettiars and immigrant Reddys and Naidus (Telugu-speaking) and Naickars (from Karnataka) name their kids Tamil Mani (Tamil Jewel), Tamil Arasan (Tamil King), etc., so as to seem to be native Tamilians while continuing to speak their mother-tongues in the home environment. At the rate the various combinations of nouns with the prefix Tamil is being used up by these guys, the native Tamilians will be left with just one possible name: Tamil A$$hole. Which will suit them just fine because that is what they have shown themselves to be. You of course can have the other unique name of Tamil Thayoli.

What a bunch of pathetic losers!

Gail also has this to say [In some regions, the hatred is not between Dalits and Brahmins, but between Dalits and OBCs.]

Not just in some regions, in almost every region.

anarayan,

i do believe in the freudian dictum that ``one who threw an abuse at the other instead of a stone is the father of civilisation``.

malayalam is relatively poor in abuses compared to tamil, and as a corollary I accept that tamil is more `cultured`` than malayalam.

An extreme example is thai, it has only one abuse, and the violence in the society is unbelievable. It is accepted for the supervisor to be shot for illtreating a subordinate, a little like the honour killing in pakistan. You are likely to know only a few seconds before death that a thai was mad at you. Well i survived for nearly a decade.

The specific fish frying abuse i havnt heard and it is quite unlikely to be a kerala abuse because there is no equivalen of gandoo, gand marna type of usages in kerala. may be because of the long association with the muslims, homosexuality among men is accepted, and as such might have lost the abuse connotations.

regards

Jay

Ref 12-head-Shah #: 88

[Of course i know Arabic some which they dont know b/c i went to madrssah also .]

Listen, if your madrassah education was anything like your medical degree from Magadh University, I wouldn`t brag about it.

Ref Zafar al-Talib #: 87

I said [A South Indian politician once said that the only two major pieces of literature in Hindi were the Ramayana by Tulsidas and the All-India Railway Timetable and Guide. So let us not confuse the two!.....]

You replied [Must have been a Brahmin....]

Bingo! Only they have a wit sardonic enough to make such statements.

This one was by Chakravarthi Rajagopalachari, the first Governor-General of independent India.

Reportedly another is supposed to have said that Gandhi`s dearest wish would be to die by an assassin`s bullet... some years before the fact.

Ref scout #: 85

[too much caffeine lately or just a fresh pair of energizer batteries?]

Just energized by the lack of intellectual honesty amongst certain Indians.

[go look at water.]

I have been looking at it for a couple of days.... the solidified form of it. You won`t believe it but I just fought my way out of Buffalo, NY.

harimau,

too much caffeine lately or just a fresh pair of energizer batteries?

go look at water.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/gul.khan/main1.jpg

http://www3.sympatico.ca/gul.khan/main1.jpg

I like this kind of news from war torn weary Afghanistan for a change

Lol..he he he he he

Don`t mess with Afghans with satellite phones



By Raz Mohammad

Friday December 28, 10:20 PM

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Picking a fight with your neighbour in Afghanistan can be dangerous -- especially if he has a satellite phone and threatens to use it to call in the U.S. air force to drop bombs on you.

Fida Jan, a junior commander of the anti-Taliban mujahideen in the village of Shirkat-e-Mewa near the southern city of Kandahar, knows all about the problem, a neighbour said.

His boss, Mullah Zilla, took a shine to Fida Jan`s four-wheel drive vehicle, a necessity but also a must-have fashion item in rural Afghanistan, and on December 25 asked him to hand it over, he said.

No, said Fida Jan, pointing out that it was on patrol.

This earned him a string of abuse from Mullah Zilla, Fida Jan`s neighbour said, and an interesting threat:

Hand it over or I`ll call in U.S. aircraft and have you bombed.

Such threats are commonplace, the neighbour, Mir Ahmad Shah, told Reuters, and effective: ``People are scared of B-52 bombers.``

The row escalated. Fida Jan warned his neighbours that a fight with Mullah Zilla was imminent and advised them to leave their homes, which they did.

Village elders and mullahs from the mosque asked Mullah Zilla to back down, to no avail. Fida Jan`s men set up checkpoints around the town. A few shots were fired in the air.

All seemed set for violence until the son of an important local commander, Amir Lalai, to whom Mullah Zilla owes allegiance, stepped in and persuaded Zilla to call off his threats. The danger eased and relieved villagers returned home.

But while the incident in Shirkat-e-Mewa ended without bloodshed, there are serious fears that some Afghans elsewhere may have already summoned up strikes from the world`s most powerful air force to settle local disputes.

Last week, a convoy in the eastern Paktia province was destroyed by U.S. airstrikes, leaving some 60 people dead.

The United States says it was a legitimate target that carried members of the al Qaeda network, headed by Osama bin Laden, the primary focus of the U.S. campaign in Afghanistan and wanted for the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington.

Others say the convoy consisted of tribal elders travelling to Kabul with invitations to attend the inauguration of new interim leader Hamid Karzai.

Some locals have said these elders were the victims of tribal rivalries -- and the attack was masterminded by a rogue satellite phone user.

Karzai has now promised to ask for a halt to U.S. bombardment in the province while the incident is investigated.

Until the truth is discovered, Afghans may not want to quarrel with satellite phone owners.

Something interesting enough to be copied & kept as a record.Please email to as many as you can.....Dawah is important too!It strenghtens you if it strenghthens the UMMAH.

_________________________________________________

The Opinion Of Non-Muslims Intellectuals On Muhammad (saw):

There are many eminent non Muslim scholars and scientists which have assessed and evaluated the Holy Book of Allah-The HOLY QURAN dispassionately, casting aside their customary and traditional attitude of condemnation. In the following paragraphs i have given the extracts from their writings.

If the facts that have been gathered and quoted here stimulate your thoughts, challenge your conscience and stir your soul to accept the Commands of HOLY QURAN, then rise and try to be like your worthy ancestors-the best and the most noble. Holy Quran says- ``We have indeed created man in the best of moulds.`` {Surah Tin 95:4}

The purpose is also to bring a modern educated Muslim youth nearer to Quranic code of life by straightening the mental curves that have arisen in his make up as a result of his Western oriented materialistic education. The purpose is to awaken his faith and prompt his pious spirit that lies buried deep down in his heart towards him, the Holy Quran and Islam.

__________________________________________________

Professor Dr. Hartwig Hirschfeld of London University:

1. Quran is unreproachable, congenial with regard to convincing power, eloquence and even composition. Never has a people been led more rapidly to a civilization, such as it was in the case of Muslims through Quran.

2. Quran was the fountainhead of all sciences.

Dr. Sir Tritton of London University, in His book ``Belief and Practices``:

He said that the Quranic beliefs are based on reason. To command what is right and to forbid what is wrong is an article of faith of Quran.

Dr. Albert Einstein, an Eminent Scientist in His book ``Life and Time``:

He said:

1. The most beautiful emotion that we can experience is mystical. He, who is not moved by this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead.

2. To know that what is not understandable really does exist, is the highest form of wisdom and most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties fail to comprehend. This knowledge, this feeling, is at the centre of true religiousness and in this sense, and in this sense only, I belong to the ranks of devoutly religious.

3. And - any one who does not believe in :-

a) Personal God

b) Revelations

c) Messengers

d) Angels and

e) The Day of Judgement , is not, and can not be called a scientist.

Goethe, one of the Greatest Poets:

He speaking about the Holy Quran declared that:

1. This Book will go on exercising through all ages a most potent influence.

2. We resign ourselves to God. If this be Islam , then do we not all live in Islam?

Dr. Oswald Seengler in his book ``History of Philosophy``:

He said:

1. The role of Quran in human history is of revolutionary importance as it revolted against ancient Roman and Greek traditions and it was against all speculative and all abstract nature of things.

2. Quran emphasizes that ` Nature and History ` are two sources of knowledge for the study and for the understanding of concrete signs of natural phenomenon.

Professor Arberry of Cambridge University in His book `Quran Interpreted`:

He said that Quran was revealed at a time when Greek and Roman civilizations were plainly dead. Quranic people created their own sciences and arts.

In a book - History of Mankind:

In this book it is said that it is probable that but for Quran, modern civilization would never have assumed that character which has enabled it to transcend all previous phases of evolution.

Professor Will Durrant:

He said :

1. Quran has abolished the greatest misery from humanity at large by the abolition of priesthood. What a tremendous amount of misery this institution of priesthood can cause in the administrative and ecclesiastical history of mankind!

2. In the `History of Civilization` he said - `` The false bogey and notions raised and sustained by biased Western writers against Islam, in preference to Christianity, are now being exposed by many western writers and thinkers who have studied Islam and Quran in detail.

Carnegie Research. Washington Publication No.376:

They said that from the 8th to 12th century the European language was Arabic. From 850 A.D. to 1250 A.D. Arabic was scientific and progressive language of mankind because the whole history of science is proof to it. Muslims were fired by enthusiastic curiosity and scientific genius. Muslim culture radiated from a number of centres which were spread in Western Europe, Maghrib and Central Asia. They related to mathematics, astronomy, chemistry, physics, technology, geography, medicine and botany. During 750 A.D. to 1100 A.D. Islam produced men like Al-Batair - the Botanist, Abdul Lateef - the Physician, Jabir Ibne Hayyan, Al-Kundi, Al Khwarazmi, Ibne Sina, Al-Masudi, Al-Ghazali, Umar Khayyam and Al-Jarrar to mention a few.

British Research Papers:

1) These British Research Papers disclose historical events of 800 A.D. to 1400 A.D. period which were kept mostly out of sight or were falsely represented by European historians to the world. These researches reveal how Quranic teachings were assiduously studied preached and its code of life was put into practical application in Europe by various emperors, warriors, kings, priests, scholars and elite, sometimes at the cost of their heads and crows.

2) Europe and other territories were not captured by sword but by sheer eloquence, appeal to reason, cultural excellence of Quran and its charm and through the vast potentialities of knowledge available in Arabic language.

3) Arabic was the language of Europe from 800 A.D. to 1400 A.D. and Quran was its code of life. By the 12th century, the literate of Europe had adopted Quranic doctrines.

4) The Research Papers say:- Quran was radiating its light silently through-out Europe. By 9th century, English, French and Germans having a taste of learning and eloquent manners found their ways into Islamic teachings and institutions.

5) Quranic doctrines eventually made themselves felt in the highest ecclesiastical regions.

6) European Universities more particularly Oxford and Paris had the largest share in spreading Arabic language in Europe.

7) At Marseilles there was a - `Great Arabic Learning Centre`

8) Quran was translated into Latin and Europeans had adopted Arabic sciences.

9) By the end of 13th century, most of Europe was thoroughly influenced by the Quranic Scientific Research and Quranic Philosophy of Life.

10) The Quranic influences had thus found an expression in France, Germany, England and Italy involving many classes of society from the poor men of the city of Lyon to the Emperors of Germany.

Emperor Bonaparte in ``Et- Islam``:

1) I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all wise men and educated men of all countries on the principles of Quran which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness.

2) Quranic people were fond of sciences and literature. In Cairo there were 6000 books on Astronomy alone and more than one hundred thousand on Mathematics, Physics, Chemistry, and Medicine.

3) But many shameless plagiarists claimed for themselves the Arabic works which they translated into Latin and named after them. Many Muslim authors` names were Latinized to hide original identification.

4) And Quran was studied in many universities of Europe.

In a Book History of Medieval Islam:

There is hardly any area of human experience where Quran has not enriched the Western tradition, foods, drinks, culture, medicine, armor, industry, commerce, discoveries, inventions, maritime, techniques, artistic, tastes and amenities - not to speak of many terms that were adopted from Arabic.

Professor Max Mayer of Paris University in French Research Le Monde Islamic :

1) The scientific, economic, political, social and literary concepts were given to Europe by Quranic civilization.

2) There are about 1000 main words of Arabic origin in English language and there are many derivatives from these words.

3) If history is to be studied unbiased, linguistic evidence can be found to show that there are about 100 words of Quranic origin in technical usage alone.

Professor Arnold J. Toynbee :

1) The extinction of race consciousness is one of the outstanding achievements of Quran and in the contemporary world , there is a crying need for the propagation of this Quranic virtue. Spirit of Islam may decide the issue with peace and tolerance.

2) The Western civilization has produced an economic and political plenum but at the same time it has caused a social and spiritual void.

Michael H. Hart :

In his book ` Ranking of 100 Most Influential Persons in History ` said : He has placed Hazrat Muhammad (saw) on top of the list. He has placed Isa (as) at position No.3 and Gautam Buddha at No.4. He has placed Musa (as) at No.16. His reasoning is:-

1) I have ranked these 100 great persons in order of importance.

2) A striking example of this in ranking Muhammad (saw) higher than Jesus Christ, in large part is because of my belief that Muhammad (saw) had a much greater influence on the formulation of Muslim religion.

3) This unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad (saw) to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

4) In ranking the men and women in this book, I considered the influence that their accomplishments may have on future generations and events.

5) Since Quran is at least as important to Muslims as the Bible is to Christians, the influence of Muhammad (saw) through the medium of Quran has been enormous. It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad (saw) on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and Saint Paul on Christianity.

Bernard Shaw in His book `Whither Islam`:

1) No other religion has had such a record of success in uniting, in giving equality of status, of opportunity and of endeavors to so many and so varied races of mankind as Islam did.

2) I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad (saw) that it would be acceptable tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today. Mediaeval ecclesiasts, either through ignorance or bigotry, painted Muhammadanism in the darkest colors. They were, in fact, trained to hate both the man Muhammad (saw) and his religion. To them Muhammad (saw) was anti-Christ. I have studied him, the wonderful man, and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ. He must be called the savior of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving the problems in a way that would bring it much needed peace and happiness. Europe is beginning to be enamored of the creed of Muhammad (saw). In the next century it may go still further in recognizing the utility of that creed in solving its problems, and it is in this sense that you must understand my prediction.

Professor Bosworth:

Call him the greatest of all reforms because he brought a revolutionary change , the equal of which was never in effect either before or after him. He is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities.

Professor Gibon a World Historian:

He said that the greatest success of Muhammad`s (saw) life was through sheer moral force without a first stroke of a sword. This is confirmed by Quran and by the history of Muslim conquerors and by their public and legal toleration of Christian worship.

Professor Massignon:

1) Islam maintains the balance between the exaggerated opposites. It has always in view the building of character which is the basis of civilization.

2) orphanages had sprung up for the first time, it is said, under the teaching of Prophet of Islam. The world owes its orphanages to this Prophet who himself was born an orphan.

The encyclopedia Britannica:

It said that Muhammad (saw) is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities.

Sarojini Naidu:

She said that it was the first religion that preached and practiced democracy. For in the mosque, when the `` Call to prayer `` is sounded at the minaret and the worshippers are gathered together, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day when the peasant and the king kneel side by side and proclaim - `` ALLAH alone is great `` .

Mahatma Gandhi:

It was Islam that civilized Spain, it was Islam that took the torch of light to Morocco and preached to the world the doctrine of brotherhood and therefore the Europeans of South Africa dread the advent of Islam as the Blacks may claim equality with the white races.

Professor Hurgonje:

He said that the League of Nations founded by the Prophet of Islam put the principle of International Unity and human brotherhood on such universal foundations as to show candle to other nations.

Professor K.S. Ramakrishna of Mysore:

He said that Islam came as the defender of the weaker sex and entitled women to share in the inheritance of their parents. It gave women , 14 centuries ago, the right of owning property. Yet it was twelve centuries later, in 1881 that England, supposed to be the cradle of democracy, adopted this institution of Islam and an Act of Parliament was passed called - `` The Married Women`s Act `` that gave them right of inheritance.

Laura Veccia Valieri in His book ``Apologie de L ` Islamisme``:

He said that the proof of the divinity of Quran is that it has been preserved intact through the ages since the time of its revelation till the present day - read and re-read by the Muslim world. This Book does not rouse in the faithfuls any weariness. It rather, through repetition, is more loved everyday. It gives rise to a profound feeling of awe and respect in the one who reads it or listens to it.

Dr. Tarachand A Distinguished Scholar and Historian of India:

His saying was that for a thousand years this civilization (i.e. the Muslim) was the central light whose rays illuminated the world. It was the mother of European culture, for men reared in this Islamic civilization were the masters in the Middle ages at whose feet the Spaniards, the French, the English, the Italians and the Germans sat down to learn Philosophy, Sciences, Mathematics, Astronomy, Chemistry, Physics, Medicines and Industrial techniques. Their teachers names are household words.

Maurice Bucille. A French Scientist in His Book ``The Bible, the Quran and Science``:

He said that the Quran most definitely did not contain a single proposition at variance with the most firmly established modern knowledge. It is a consideration which implies that God could not express an erroneous idea. Facts always assert their existence in the end , in spite of the resistance put up by those who are inconvenienced, annoyed or shocked by their discovery. (Later he became a Muslim)

A. M . L . Stoddard:

He quoted that the rise of Islam is perhaps the most amazing event in human history. Springing from a land and a people who were previously negligible, Islam spread with in a century over half the earth, shattering great empires, overthrowing long established religions, remoulding the souls of races and building up a whole new world - the world of Islam.

James A . Michener:

He said that the Quran is probably the most often read book in the world, surely the most often memorized, and possibly the most influential in the daily life of the people who believe in it. It is neither poetry nor ordinary prose, yet it possesses the ability to arouse its hearer to ecstasies.

Annie Basant in Her Book - ``Life and Teachings of Muhammad``:

She was of the view that it is impossible for any one who studies the life and character of the great prophet of Arabia, who now knows how he taught and how he lived, to feel any thing else but reverence for that mighty Arabian Teacher.

Zafar Al-Talib,

``I tell you, I am learning more and more about Tamilian language and culture on this board. First ali. Now thayoli.``

Zafar Saab, a great and ancient language will always have great cuss-words!

``A recent I overheard:``I`ll fry fish in your a-hole``!” And you say this how?``

This was in Malayalam, not Tamil. Err...being the bashful kind, I`ll pass. But you can always ask Jay !!

regards,

Ref karuvattu-kuzhambu:

I dug up that report about a beggar girl doing well in the exams.

She happened to be living in the state of Karnataka.

If she were in Tamil Nadu, she will be blaming her fate and still begging on the streets.

Doctor Artist Leader would be blaming the Brahmins for her plight while simultaneously making sure that his son MK Stalin will some day become the Chief Minister.

TRAVELLERS` TALES

By Nury Vittachi

Issue cover-dated December 06, 2001

STREET SMART: A teenage Indian female beggar entered a college examination in June--and passed with flying colours, to the amazement of the authorities. Nagarathna, a Mysore-based vagrant, quickly become a minor celebrity, being featured in The Times of India. In her latest coup, Nagarathna won a place as a jury member at the 12th International Children`s Film Festival in Hyderabad last month. If she gets any more invitations, she can afford to be selective--giving the lie to an old maxim that beggars can`t be choosers.

Ref Zafar Al-Talib #: 69

[Which is why speakers of Hindi - descended from Sanskrit - have little difficulty understanding Urdu - derived from Altaic-Turkic languages.]

Listen up good, Zafar. Sanskrit has classics such as Kalidasa`s Shakuntalam, Raghuvamsam, etc.

A South Indian politician once said that the only two major pieces of literature in Hindi were the Ramayana by Tulsidas and the All-India Railway Timetable and Guide. So let us not confuse the two!

Ref Zafar the Student #: 68

Zafar Al-Talib

[I tell you, I am learning more and more about Tamilian language and culture on this board. First ali. Now thayoli.]

One thing for sure. You wouldn`t name your son Ali, what with all the Sri Lankan Tamils in Australia.

Ref Umer Murtaza #: 66

[Well, at least now you know how it feels to to get pissed off when someone spews shitz.]

You can`t call it shitz and then immediately also say [Anil, (great article!!!!)]

[Harimau and Sax, I`ve seen you guys at your funniest for a long time.]

We all missed you for a long time on the Chowk.

[Take care and happy new year.]

Happy New Year to you too. But I guess I can only offer you non-alcoholic cider. I hope Zafar stays away from some of that awful South Australian wines.