Worldwide India-Pakistan peace movement begins?
Ras Siddiqui July 15, 2002
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#284 Posted by harimau on August 9, 2002 12:34:08 pm
Ref bundchungal #: 284
[Yesterday, they showed on Pakistan TV the transportation of Daniel Pearl’s body remains. Those idi0ts even spelled his name wrong. It was spelled Denial Pearl!!]
They did NOT spell the name wrong.
Didn`t Musharraf deny that Daniel Pearl was dead, assuring the world that he was still alive and that the Pak police were closing in on the kidnappers and would rescue Daniel alive?
That is why he is now Denial Pearl.
[Yesterday, they showed on Pakistan TV the transportation of Daniel Pearl’s body remains. Those idi0ts even spelled his name wrong. It was spelled Denial Pearl!!]
They did NOT spell the name wrong.
Didn`t Musharraf deny that Daniel Pearl was dead, assuring the world that he was still alive and that the Pak police were closing in on the kidnappers and would rescue Daniel alive?
That is why he is now Denial Pearl.
#283 Posted by busharraf on August 8, 2002 8:03:19 pm
rsridhar, #282, Thank you for finally accepting me and also for your very kind remarks. I an fortunate that you found me worthy to be a member of Chowk.com. You are very generous man and I hope that one day we might be able to meet in person when our brother countries are at peace. It may be an unrealistic possibility but at least it is an a optimistic and pleasant one.
I hope we can continue to exchange more of our views. I am happy to have you as an Indian friend.
The basic thing is that TRUTH must prevail. We need not agree on everything, but the conversation or discussion should be honest and unabusive. Then we will be on the right path for success and happiness.
``Shanti - Aman`` mere pyare ``mitr-dost``
I hope we can continue to exchange more of our views. I am happy to have you as an Indian friend.
The basic thing is that TRUTH must prevail. We need not agree on everything, but the conversation or discussion should be honest and unabusive. Then we will be on the right path for success and happiness.
``Shanti - Aman`` mere pyare ``mitr-dost``
#282 Posted by bundchungal on August 8, 2002 8:03:19 pm
rsridhar, (# 283) I accept your well meaning comments. I think the turban is a neat and impressive head dress that is worn all over by the people inhabiting the subcontinent. The Sikh’s should be allowed to wear their turbans (or other head gear), as should the Rajasthanis, Gujaratis, Tamilains, Bengalis, as well as others who wear them. My remarks were aimed towards the taliban types who look tribally shabby and dirty in their dressing manner and overall demenour. I feel that people should be smartly dressed and reflect the dignity of their people. If you have seen the taliban types in Pakistan, they are most unimpressive and unclean. The Arabs, of Saudi Arabia, for example are well dressed in their flowing robes. But the Pakistanis are most untidy, especially when they are shown on TV news reports. Yesterday, they showed on Pakistan TV the transportation of Daniel Pearl’s body remains. Those idi0ts even spelled his name wrong. It was spelled Denial Pearl!! Anyway, the people carrying the body were most untidy in their appearance, just like the killer Sheikh Moola Omar.
Cheers!
Cheers!
#281 Posted by rsridhar on August 7, 2002 7:44:22 pm
re:Reply #: 280
bundchungal,
While i agree with much of what you said, i do not agree with the dress code. Would you also tell the sikhs to stop wearing his turban because it sets him apart from the crowd?
Sridhar
bundchungal,
While i agree with much of what you said, i do not agree with the dress code. Would you also tell the sikhs to stop wearing his turban because it sets him apart from the crowd?
Sridhar
#280 Posted by rsridhar on August 7, 2002 7:13:52 pm
Reply #: 279
busharraf
Irfan Hussain is a man of integrity. And so are you. It takes courage to realise the truth and speak it. Many may realise the truth but dare not speak it and, like a broken gramophone record, keep repeating the same stale thing again and again. You are like a whiff of fresh air on the chowk. Keep it up.
Sridhar
busharraf
Irfan Hussain is a man of integrity. And so are you. It takes courage to realise the truth and speak it. Many may realise the truth but dare not speak it and, like a broken gramophone record, keep repeating the same stale thing again and again. You are like a whiff of fresh air on the chowk. Keep it up.
Sridhar
#279 Posted by rsridhar on August 7, 2002 7:13:52 pm
re:Reply #: 271
Karakoram,
In your response to Busharraf your write:
``you mean with the southies too ? can they understand Iqbal ? are you sure about this ?``.
Most southies would appreciate the spirit in which the poem was written by Iqbal even if they do not understand the language. Most Southies do not understand ``Vande Mataram`` written by Bakim Chatterjee (the poem was in Sanskrit)but they appreciate the spirit of nationalism behind the poem. Indians treasure that song written by Md Iqbal even if latter did not treasure India and left for greener pastures.
``Can we convert more untouchables to Islam ? ...
Maybe for the ex-Brahmins like Iqbal`s family..but what about the untouchables who became Muslims.. I mean do they want to become untouchables again ??``
Untouchables (now called Dalits)are not against the hindu religion. You do not see them standing in line to convert. Their exploitation is more of a social nature. With gradual empowerment that too will go away. Mayawati of UP is a Dalit. Ex-President Narayan is a Dalit. With changes in the power equation, exploitation of Dalits will be a thing of the past. You seem to be parroting out the lines you read in your childhood days in a madrassa. Like many muslims, you too are in a time warp.
Sridhar
Karakoram,
In your response to Busharraf your write:
``you mean with the southies too ? can they understand Iqbal ? are you sure about this ?``.
Most southies would appreciate the spirit in which the poem was written by Iqbal even if they do not understand the language. Most Southies do not understand ``Vande Mataram`` written by Bakim Chatterjee (the poem was in Sanskrit)but they appreciate the spirit of nationalism behind the poem. Indians treasure that song written by Md Iqbal even if latter did not treasure India and left for greener pastures.
``Can we convert more untouchables to Islam ? ...
Maybe for the ex-Brahmins like Iqbal`s family..but what about the untouchables who became Muslims.. I mean do they want to become untouchables again ??``
Untouchables (now called Dalits)are not against the hindu religion. You do not see them standing in line to convert. Their exploitation is more of a social nature. With gradual empowerment that too will go away. Mayawati of UP is a Dalit. Ex-President Narayan is a Dalit. With changes in the power equation, exploitation of Dalits will be a thing of the past. You seem to be parroting out the lines you read in your childhood days in a madrassa. Like many muslims, you too are in a time warp.
Sridhar
#278 Posted by bundchungal on August 6, 2002 12:32:53 pm
Namaskaar, Shremaan Busharraf Jee Maharaj.
If you are a true India-phile then here is my plan for you and your people:
The first step for Pakistan, if it wants to unite with India, should be to put an end to the separation of Muslim children from children of other communities. While in school Muslims should ensure that their children go to school with children from other religious groups, if there are still any left in your country. That is where we all get to know about the beliefs and practices of other religious group. It is through the friendship we make in school and college, and through teacher of other faith whom we respect, that we begin to understand and respect the beliefs and practices of other groups.
It does not mean that Muslim children should not learn the Koran. These can be taught in a special class for Muslim children either in the school itself or in the mosques. It will be like the scripture or moral science lessons in Christian school. It is not a compulsory subject but in many Christian school Hindu children join such classes out of intellectual curiosity. As a matter of fact, the scripture prize Cathedral school in Mumbai is often won by Hindu students!
Muslims should consider opening up their School for the general education of children from all communities, and restrict classes on Islamic subjects as an optional item. This change in the conduct of Islamic schools will go a long way to integrate the community.
Another useful step will be for Muslims charities to establish charitable hospitals accessible to members of all communities. They present a face of compassion to the community in general. Rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia should be told by Pakistani Muslim leaders to direct their funds to building such hospitals rather than building more opulent mosques. In fact the building of such affluent mosques in poor Muslim mohallas and fitting them with elaborate loudspeakers that blare out at odd times of the day and night can be a source of irritation to many secular neighbours.
A third step will be for Muslims to adopt in their business and professional life a dress code that does not mark them out as being different from the rest. Is it really necessary for men to have a beard or wear caps and long shirts or for women to wear a burqa or head scarf to show that they are Muslims? These dress and appearance codes were at one time probably appropriate for people who lived in the Arabian peninsula and in a community where women had to hide their form for their own safety. Beards as a symbol of religious identity also belong to that era. Is it relevant today in your country?
A fourth step will be to stop the imams and mullahs to speak ill of India. This breeding of hatered towards Indians must be stopped in your country.
Namaaz several times during the day is yet another habit which sets Muslims apart, and can prove to be an irritant where office team work is involved. Can Muslims not offer their prayers briefly in silence without having to interfere with the activities of their team mates?
These are just a few points that I would like you Muslims to think about. Do you think this will be possible for you?
Bye the way, I congratulate you Mr. Busharraf on your interesting “username” and also on the points you raised previously on Chowk.
Keep this discussion going!!!!. Your fellow Pakis can learn a lot from you!!!
If you are a true India-phile then here is my plan for you and your people:
The first step for Pakistan, if it wants to unite with India, should be to put an end to the separation of Muslim children from children of other communities. While in school Muslims should ensure that their children go to school with children from other religious groups, if there are still any left in your country. That is where we all get to know about the beliefs and practices of other religious group. It is through the friendship we make in school and college, and through teacher of other faith whom we respect, that we begin to understand and respect the beliefs and practices of other groups.
It does not mean that Muslim children should not learn the Koran. These can be taught in a special class for Muslim children either in the school itself or in the mosques. It will be like the scripture or moral science lessons in Christian school. It is not a compulsory subject but in many Christian school Hindu children join such classes out of intellectual curiosity. As a matter of fact, the scripture prize Cathedral school in Mumbai is often won by Hindu students!
Muslims should consider opening up their School for the general education of children from all communities, and restrict classes on Islamic subjects as an optional item. This change in the conduct of Islamic schools will go a long way to integrate the community.
Another useful step will be for Muslims charities to establish charitable hospitals accessible to members of all communities. They present a face of compassion to the community in general. Rich Muslim countries like Saudi Arabia should be told by Pakistani Muslim leaders to direct their funds to building such hospitals rather than building more opulent mosques. In fact the building of such affluent mosques in poor Muslim mohallas and fitting them with elaborate loudspeakers that blare out at odd times of the day and night can be a source of irritation to many secular neighbours.
A third step will be for Muslims to adopt in their business and professional life a dress code that does not mark them out as being different from the rest. Is it really necessary for men to have a beard or wear caps and long shirts or for women to wear a burqa or head scarf to show that they are Muslims? These dress and appearance codes were at one time probably appropriate for people who lived in the Arabian peninsula and in a community where women had to hide their form for their own safety. Beards as a symbol of religious identity also belong to that era. Is it relevant today in your country?
A fourth step will be to stop the imams and mullahs to speak ill of India. This breeding of hatered towards Indians must be stopped in your country.
Namaaz several times during the day is yet another habit which sets Muslims apart, and can prove to be an irritant where office team work is involved. Can Muslims not offer their prayers briefly in silence without having to interfere with the activities of their team mates?
These are just a few points that I would like you Muslims to think about. Do you think this will be possible for you?
Bye the way, I congratulate you Mr. Busharraf on your interesting “username” and also on the points you raised previously on Chowk.
Keep this discussion going!!!!. Your fellow Pakis can learn a lot from you!!!
#277 Posted by busharraf on August 5, 2002 2:32:34 pm
Here is a remindful excerpt from this weekend`s column by Irfan Husain (Mazdak) in Dawn:
(complete column is at: http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm)
Is there a connection between these different strands of violence in Pakistani society? Clearly there is: when there is virtually no deterrence, there is no respect for the law. And when even the law is loaded against specific sections of society (women and minorities), then there can be no protection for them. But perhaps the most important is the virtual absence of women from our public life: without their humanizing influence, the most brutish behaviour has been accepted as the norm. In a society where women have been locked away and deliberately kept backward, they can hardly modify and refine the macho, feudal image that is now the Pakistani role model.
Ultimately, this male posturing and swaggering colours and permeates attitudes and policies at the individual and national level. In our region, it is reinforced by the belief that Muslims have ruled much of India for nearly a millennium. Of course we tend to forget that most Pakistani Muslims are in reality the descendants of Hindus who had converted to Islam somewhere along the line. Historical and social distortions make us behave in a stiff-necked and uptight manner that precludes flexibility and realism, blocking a settlement with India. Our neighbour responds in an equally prickly way, thus ensuring that our borders are as prone to violence as our society is.
We Pakistanis resent the negative image we have acquired abroad, ascribing it to hostile Indian propaganda combined with anti-Muslim sentiments in the West. We overlook the unpleasant reality that, seen from a distance, we have developed into a very unattractive state that is violent not only to its own people but also to foreigners. It has not produced any arts or literature of note in recent years, nor has it made any contribution to the sciences. It has acquired nuclear status, thus - together with India - making the region a more dangerous place. It has many social and economic problems seeking urgent attention and redress but it chooses to spend enormous sums on its armed forces. Meanwhile, poverty and disease continue multiplying.
All in all, if the rest of the world is critical of us, it is not far wrong.
(complete column is at: http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/mazdak.htm)
Is there a connection between these different strands of violence in Pakistani society? Clearly there is: when there is virtually no deterrence, there is no respect for the law. And when even the law is loaded against specific sections of society (women and minorities), then there can be no protection for them. But perhaps the most important is the virtual absence of women from our public life: without their humanizing influence, the most brutish behaviour has been accepted as the norm. In a society where women have been locked away and deliberately kept backward, they can hardly modify and refine the macho, feudal image that is now the Pakistani role model.
Ultimately, this male posturing and swaggering colours and permeates attitudes and policies at the individual and national level. In our region, it is reinforced by the belief that Muslims have ruled much of India for nearly a millennium. Of course we tend to forget that most Pakistani Muslims are in reality the descendants of Hindus who had converted to Islam somewhere along the line. Historical and social distortions make us behave in a stiff-necked and uptight manner that precludes flexibility and realism, blocking a settlement with India. Our neighbour responds in an equally prickly way, thus ensuring that our borders are as prone to violence as our society is.
We Pakistanis resent the negative image we have acquired abroad, ascribing it to hostile Indian propaganda combined with anti-Muslim sentiments in the West. We overlook the unpleasant reality that, seen from a distance, we have developed into a very unattractive state that is violent not only to its own people but also to foreigners. It has not produced any arts or literature of note in recent years, nor has it made any contribution to the sciences. It has acquired nuclear status, thus - together with India - making the region a more dangerous place. It has many social and economic problems seeking urgent attention and redress but it chooses to spend enormous sums on its armed forces. Meanwhile, poverty and disease continue multiplying.
All in all, if the rest of the world is critical of us, it is not far wrong.
#276 Posted by shankar on August 5, 2002 2:32:34 pm
karakoram,
{{Just goes to show if you think a little you can get answers to just about anything.}}
Haha! Thanks buddy, I deserved that!..:)
as to answering the question...I promise to try & answer it in greater detail, if I get more time...
right now...I`ll just tell you this..psychiatry is the most ``recession-proof`` profession in the world...shrinks dont roll in wealth in America..but they will NEVER-EVER go hungry in this fair society...not during the Great Depression--not even when the stock market was breaking all records..
ooops...gotta go!..wife is yelling cos I`m late for work..
{{Just goes to show if you think a little you can get answers to just about anything.}}
Haha! Thanks buddy, I deserved that!..:)
as to answering the question...I promise to try & answer it in greater detail, if I get more time...
right now...I`ll just tell you this..psychiatry is the most ``recession-proof`` profession in the world...shrinks dont roll in wealth in America..but they will NEVER-EVER go hungry in this fair society...not during the Great Depression--not even when the stock market was breaking all records..
ooops...gotta go!..wife is yelling cos I`m late for work..
#275 Posted by shankar on August 5, 2002 3:20:53 am
hey fellow Chowkies?!
Whats going on here?!
I wrote SEVERAL posts to Busharraf, explaining my stance regarding him & its been a few days. Eventhough Chowk confirmed that my posts were recieved, its been a couple of days & they have not been posted! But sadnaji`s post (which belongs in another thread) was posted here!!
I think Chowk has a SERIOUS staffing problem. As a faithful Chowkie, I feel I have a right to know what the heck is going on!
Are Chowk`s finances/fortunes down & cant afford to hire staff, because of the ``dot com bust``?
Or is Chowk becoming a ``victim of its own success``--so many posts from so many different posters are overwhelming them?
``Old timers`` say that Chowk was a very ``well mannered & refined`` place , in the ``good old days``. OK, maybe. But in those ``good old days``, if an article drew 100 posts, it was a record! On an average, an article had maybe (at the most) 25 posts or so...my figures are a rough guess. So, eventhough, today, Chowk isnt so ``refined`` & all the ``refined`` people have deserted Chowk; because they dont approve of the ``quality of people``---its a HECK OF A LOT MORE LIVELY; Ill say that!
{{Huh..mois never cared to belong to any exculsive ``refined people`s club``, anyways:))}}
Anyways,(er..before I get off my soapbox), welcome BUSHARRAF & KHAN...everybody is welcome to join Chowk!!
Mr Umair Khan, I hope, once in a while, you do read some of our views.
Peace
Whats going on here?!
I wrote SEVERAL posts to Busharraf, explaining my stance regarding him & its been a few days. Eventhough Chowk confirmed that my posts were recieved, its been a couple of days & they have not been posted! But sadnaji`s post (which belongs in another thread) was posted here!!
I think Chowk has a SERIOUS staffing problem. As a faithful Chowkie, I feel I have a right to know what the heck is going on!
Are Chowk`s finances/fortunes down & cant afford to hire staff, because of the ``dot com bust``?
Or is Chowk becoming a ``victim of its own success``--so many posts from so many different posters are overwhelming them?
``Old timers`` say that Chowk was a very ``well mannered & refined`` place , in the ``good old days``. OK, maybe. But in those ``good old days``, if an article drew 100 posts, it was a record! On an average, an article had maybe (at the most) 25 posts or so...my figures are a rough guess. So, eventhough, today, Chowk isnt so ``refined`` & all the ``refined`` people have deserted Chowk; because they dont approve of the ``quality of people``---its a HECK OF A LOT MORE LIVELY; Ill say that!
{{Huh..mois never cared to belong to any exculsive ``refined people`s club``, anyways:))}}
Anyways,(er..before I get off my soapbox), welcome BUSHARRAF & KHAN...everybody is welcome to join Chowk!!
Mr Umair Khan, I hope, once in a while, you do read some of our views.
Peace
#274 Posted by Karakoram on August 5, 2002 3:20:53 am
bushy:
I don`t want to give up steak. I will fight tooth and nail for my right to eat a juicy steak. if its the unification of Pakistan and India and my right to eat steak... beleive me when I say I will kill the cow!
sorry:(, but I`m an animal and I like my beef. Just as someone else may like their pork or alcohol or frog`s legs.
Also, i`m not sure what your definition of faithful muslim is.. I do stuff that is considered haraam.
I believe in good vibes. But i realize your point of view.. that its not good vibes for the cow, when we kill it. thats where the world gets screwy. Is it good vibes that we kill the plant to eat it ? We my dear bushy, are just animals. I like to think of my self as an opportunist with a good heart, but still an opportunist.
I don`t want to give up steak. I will fight tooth and nail for my right to eat a juicy steak. if its the unification of Pakistan and India and my right to eat steak... beleive me when I say I will kill the cow!
sorry:(, but I`m an animal and I like my beef. Just as someone else may like their pork or alcohol or frog`s legs.
Also, i`m not sure what your definition of faithful muslim is.. I do stuff that is considered haraam.
I believe in good vibes. But i realize your point of view.. that its not good vibes for the cow, when we kill it. thats where the world gets screwy. Is it good vibes that we kill the plant to eat it ? We my dear bushy, are just animals. I like to think of my self as an opportunist with a good heart, but still an opportunist.
#273 Posted by Karakoram on August 5, 2002 3:20:53 am
``I`m not sure which is more interesting, that Pakistan allows the sale of pork; or there are supermarkets in Pakistan that cater only to foreigners.``
Shankar,
hello, wanted to ask a question.. have you noticed a downward trend in people seeking pdychiatric help with the current recession ? I have a hunch that people seek help or need help when they are more secure and stable... they try to find things that are fcuked up with their lives. when people are not doing that well they have less time to worry about how they feel and are more focued on making things better.
Coming back to your point about supermarkets that cater to foreigners, I`m curious as to why its interesting. I just went to a Japanese supermarket in NY today. What nasty tasting juice drinks ughhh!. I saw it, walked in, I found it interesting too. I was like are there that many Japs that you need a supermarket that carrys only jap goods. The answer came...yes!! eureka thats why they opened the store because they knew they`d have a market for Jap goods. Just goes to show if you think a little you can get answers to just about anything.
Peace
#272 Posted by sadna on August 4, 2002 6:07:18 pm
ylh #248
You are compulsively abusive and cannot handle disagreement. You have the freedom of the thread.
You are compulsively abusive and cannot handle disagreement. You have the freedom of the thread.
#271 Posted by busharraf on August 2, 2002 6:16:18 pm
Korakoram, it is very easy to be cynical but I have not heard any constructive comments from you in your recent posts. I know that some of the ideas I suggested will take a long time to foster. I am also not saying that we lay down our arms unify tomorrow. This will not happen anytime soon. Our societ is not ready for it. I know this and I also do not insist that we do so. I merely suggested an ideal situation, from my perspective.
But in the meanwhile. on Chowk and with our accquaintances, why can we not talk with each other about such things, and at least try to be collegial. Snide remarks will only encourage distrust and apprehension between us. You seem to be a reasonable fellow why can’t you engage the Chowk members in a constructive manner? I have similar remarks for rsaxena, shankar, wadera, and rsridhar. I do not know you but I have aggravated you a lot. I do not regret it because I just express my natural and honest opinion. You all seem to be responsible fellows with a good sense of right and wrong. All I am suggesting is that we be collegial between our two countries and engage in worthwhile and constructive debate. Talking about boycotting each other, as some have, will not help us in any way.
In specifics: Korakoram, I did not mean to suggest that ``we convert more untouchables to Islam`` Why would you want to do that? Why does this have to be a mission of one’s life? Why can we not live and let live? Why can we not engage in business with each other instead? And make a better society for each other. If you are currently residing in Pakistan, then you will know how badly our garment and other small business sectors have suffered. For my situation, I used to have a thriving business in making export garments. Now all my orders have dried out and things are very bad. I also have no more workers as many of them have gone elsewhere for “out country’s defense”. I lay the blame for our sorry situation on our military rulers and our so-called clergy for this. They have for so long supported terrorist activities and have neglected education in our country. They poison our minds for the sake of jihad. This is not jidad!!!! The Americans are now forcing their way upon us, for better or for worse. Sure our leaders like to make fiery speeches, but this is all smoke and mirrors. There is no substance to their words. Their regime will all come crashing down one day, if we do not focus on ourselves and the betterment of our society. We need a greater purpose in life. We need to stop being fixated on our neighbours and work for the betterment of our people.
I specifically did not mean to imply that our down trodden should become untouchables again. But I am glad to know that that you at least, indirectly, acknowledge the fact that many us were most likely Hindu untouchables, as well as higher castes people, who were forcibly converted to Islam a long time ago. Please stay the way you are if you follow it faithfully. But this should be a personal matter and must not be forced on to others. This is a just starting point. But do not dwell on just this fact, my friend. It is not worth it. Do not dwell on the past, but look instead to the future. If you are a faithful Muslim, as I feel I am, then follow your faith honestly. Follow the noble ideals of Islam, instead of the rantings and ravings of our power hungry mullahs and generals.
But in the meanwhile. on Chowk and with our accquaintances, why can we not talk with each other about such things, and at least try to be collegial. Snide remarks will only encourage distrust and apprehension between us. You seem to be a reasonable fellow why can’t you engage the Chowk members in a constructive manner? I have similar remarks for rsaxena, shankar, wadera, and rsridhar. I do not know you but I have aggravated you a lot. I do not regret it because I just express my natural and honest opinion. You all seem to be responsible fellows with a good sense of right and wrong. All I am suggesting is that we be collegial between our two countries and engage in worthwhile and constructive debate. Talking about boycotting each other, as some have, will not help us in any way.
In specifics: Korakoram, I did not mean to suggest that ``we convert more untouchables to Islam`` Why would you want to do that? Why does this have to be a mission of one’s life? Why can we not live and let live? Why can we not engage in business with each other instead? And make a better society for each other. If you are currently residing in Pakistan, then you will know how badly our garment and other small business sectors have suffered. For my situation, I used to have a thriving business in making export garments. Now all my orders have dried out and things are very bad. I also have no more workers as many of them have gone elsewhere for “out country’s defense”. I lay the blame for our sorry situation on our military rulers and our so-called clergy for this. They have for so long supported terrorist activities and have neglected education in our country. They poison our minds for the sake of jihad. This is not jidad!!!! The Americans are now forcing their way upon us, for better or for worse. Sure our leaders like to make fiery speeches, but this is all smoke and mirrors. There is no substance to their words. Their regime will all come crashing down one day, if we do not focus on ourselves and the betterment of our society. We need a greater purpose in life. We need to stop being fixated on our neighbours and work for the betterment of our people.
I specifically did not mean to imply that our down trodden should become untouchables again. But I am glad to know that that you at least, indirectly, acknowledge the fact that many us were most likely Hindu untouchables, as well as higher castes people, who were forcibly converted to Islam a long time ago. Please stay the way you are if you follow it faithfully. But this should be a personal matter and must not be forced on to others. This is a just starting point. But do not dwell on just this fact, my friend. It is not worth it. Do not dwell on the past, but look instead to the future. If you are a faithful Muslim, as I feel I am, then follow your faith honestly. Follow the noble ideals of Islam, instead of the rantings and ravings of our power hungry mullahs and generals.
#270 Posted by shankar on August 2, 2002 3:17:02 pm
Karakoram,
{{You can buy pork in Pakistan in certain supermarkets that cater to foreigners.}}
Hey I just learnt something about Pakistan! Thanks:)
I`m not sure which is more interesting, that Pakistan allows the sale of pork; or there are supermarkets in Pakistan that cater only to foreigners.
{{You can buy pork in Pakistan in certain supermarkets that cater to foreigners.}}
Hey I just learnt something about Pakistan! Thanks:)
I`m not sure which is more interesting, that Pakistan allows the sale of pork; or there are supermarkets in Pakistan that cater only to foreigners.
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