Is ’Eve’ the First Human to be Cloned?

The Interacts on this article rock! Asif, where are you now days?

If one already believes in Adam n Eve theory whats the point in research?
Researcher should go to his/her lab with open mind ready to discover anything that may or maynot agree with his/her present believes/faith.

Asif Naqshbandi # 19,

`....He created Hazrat Hawwa alayhimus-salam and from them the whole of humanity is descended. i.e. I believe in Traditional Islamic view of creation. `

Can the scientist in you explain how if Eve was created after Adam, why men have nipples.
Doesn`t it suggest that woman was created first and man was made using the same template.

surely there are better rebuttals to darwin`s theory than shaykh aliph bay pay`s she-camel story.

ironman:

How do you know what I believe and what I don`t believe? I believe LITERALLY that Allah Ta`ala created Hazrat Adam alayhisalam as the first man from earth and then from Hazrat Adam alayhisalam He created Hazrat Hawwa alayhimus-salam and from them the whole of humanity is descended. i.e. I believe in Traditional Islamic view of creation.

**

I do NOT repeat DO NOT believe in the theory of evolution. Can I make it any clearer? Why? Because (a) because it is KUFR. (b) it has many inherent flaws and contradictions.

I don`t see why not believing in evolution and writing this article is mutually exclusive.
**
janjua :

NOTHING is accidental. Everything happens due to Allah`s Will. There is thus NO random mutation. It is Allah`s will that animals adapt to their environment. This is what is known as microevolution. It is therefore NOT random as it happens due to Allah`s will.

**
Shaykh Nuh explains it much better:

Regarding your question whether the Qur`anic account of creation is incompatible with man having evolved; if evolution entails, as Darwin believed, that ``probably all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from one primordial form, into which life was first breathed`` (The Origin of Species, 455), I apprehend that this is incompatible with the Qur`anic account of creation. Our first ancestor was the prophet Adam (upon whom be peace), who was created by Allah in janna, or ``paradise`` and not on earth, but also created in a particular way that He describes to us:
``And [mention] when your Lord said to the angels, `Truly, I will create a man from clay. So when I have completed him, and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down prostrate to him.` And the angels prostrated, one and all. Save for Satan, who was too proud to, and disbelieved. He said to him, `O Satan, what prevented you from prostrating to what I have created with My two hands? Are you arrogant, or too exalted?` He said,`I am better than he; You created me from fire and created him from clay``` (Qur`an 38:71-76).
Now, the God of Islam is transcendently above any suggestion of anthropomorphism, and Qur`anic exegetes like Fakhr al-Din al-Razi explain the above words created with My two hands as a figurative expression of Allah`s special concern for this particular creation, the first human, since a sovereign of immense majesty does not undertake any work ``with his two hands`` unless it is of the greatest importance (Tafsir al-Fakhr al-Razi. 32 vols. Beirut 1401/1981. Reprint (32 vols. in 16). Beirut: Dar al-Fikr, 1405/1985, 26.231-32). I say ``the first human,`` because the Arabic term bashar used in the verse ``Truly, I will create a man from clay`` means precisely a human being and has no other lexical significance.
The same interpretive considerations (of Allah`s transcendance above the attributes of created things) apply to the words and breathed into him of My spirit. Because the Qur`an unequivocally establishes that Allah is Ahad or ``One,`` not an entity divisible into parts, exegetes say this ``spirit`` was a created one, and that its attribution to Allah (``My spirit``) is what is called in Arabic idafat al-tashrif ``an attribution of honor,`` showing that the ruh or ``spirit`` within this first human being and his descendants was ``a sacred, exalted, and noble substance`` (ibid., 228)--not that there was a ``part of Allah`` such as could enter into Adam`s body, which is unbelief. Similar attributions are not infrequent in Arabic, just as the Kaaba is called bayt Allah, or ``the House of Allah,`` meaning ``Allah`s honored house,`` not that it is His address; or such as the she-camel sent to the people of Thamud, which was called naqat Allah, or ``the she-camel of Allah,`` meaning ``Allah`s honored she-camel,`` signifying its inviolability in the shari`a of the time, not that He rode it; and so on.

All of which shows that, according to the Qur`an, human beings are intrinsically--by their celestial provenance in janna, by their specially created nature, and by the ruh or soul within them--at a quite different level in Allah`s eyes than other terrestrial life, whether or not their bodies have certain physiological affinities with it, which are the prerogative of their Maker to create. Darwin says:

``I believe that animals have descended from at most only four or five progenitors, and plants from an equal or lesser number. Analogy would lead me one step further, namely, to the belief that all animals and plants have descended from some one prototype. But analogy may be a deceitful guide`` (The Origin of Species, 454-55).
Indeed it may. It is the nature of the place in which Allah has created us, this world (dunya), that the possibility exists to deny the existence of Allah, His angels, His Books, His messengers, the Last Day, and destiny, its good and evil. If these things were not hidden by a veil, there would be no point in Allah`s making us responsible for believing them. Belief would be involuntary, like the belief, say, that France is in Europe.
But what He has made us responsible for is precisely belief in the unseen. Why? In order that the divine names--such as al-Rafi` or ``He Who Raises,`` al-Khafidh ``He Who Abases,`` al-Mu`ti ``He Who Gives,`` al-Mani` ``He Who Withholds,`` al-Rahim ``the Merciful,`` al-Muntaqim ``the Avenger,`` al-Latif ``the Subtlely Kind,`` and so on--may be manifest.

How are they manifest? Only through the levels of human felicity and perdition, of salvation and damnation, by the disparity of human spiritual attainment in all its degrees: from the profound certitude of the prophets (upon whom be peace), to the faith of the ordinary believer, to the doubts of the waverer or hypocrite, to the denials of the damned. Also, the veil for its part has a seamless quality. To some, it is a seamless veil of light manifesting the Divine through the perfection of creation; while to others, it is a seamless veil of darkness, a perfect nexus of interpenetrating causal relations in which there is no place for anything that is not material. Allah says,

``Exalted in Grace is He in whose hand is dominion, and He has power over everything. Who created death and life to try you, as to which of you is better in works, and He is the All-powerful, the Oft-forgiving. And who created the seven heavens in layers; you see no disparity in the creation of the All-merciful. Return your glance: do you see any fissures?`` (Qur`an 67:1-3).
The last time I checked, the university scene was an atheistic subculture, of professors and students actively or passively convinced that God was created by man. In bastions of liberalism like the University of California at Berkeley, for example, which still forbids the establishment of a Religions Department, only this attitude will do; anything else is immature, is primitivism. The reduction of human behavior to evolutionary biology is a major journalistic missionary outreach of this movement. I am pleased with this, in as much as Allah has created it to try us, to distinguish the good from the bad, the bad from the worse. But I don`t see why Muslims should accept it as an explanation of the origin of man, especially when it contradicts what we know from the Creator of Man. (Sh. Nuh Ha Mim, Keller: Islam and Evolution: www.masud.com)

...
Further:

As for Muslims, they believe that Allah alone creates causes, Allah alone creates effects, and Allah alone conjoins the two. In the words of the Qur`an, ``Allah is the Creator of everything`` (Qur`an 13:16).

A Muslim should pay careful attention to this point, and distance himself from believing either that causes (a) bring about effects in and of themselves; or (b) bring about effects in and of themselves through a capacity Allah has placed in them. Both of these negate the oneness and soleness (wahdaniyya) of Allah, which entails that Allah has no co-sharer in:

(1) His entity (dhat);
(2) His attributes (sifat);
(3) or in His acts (af`al), which include the creation of the universe and everything in it, including all its cause and effect relationships.

...
In this connection, evolution as a knowledge claim about a causal relation does not seem to me intrinsically different from other similar knowledge claims, such as the statement ``The president died from an assassin`s bullet.`` Here, though in reality Allah alone gives life or makes to die, we find a dispensation in Sacred Law to speak in this way, provided that we know and believe that Allah alone brought about this effect. As for someone who literally believes that the bullet gave the president death, such a person is a kafir. In reality he knows no more about the world than a man taking a bath who, when the water is cut off from the municipality, gets angry at the tap.
(ditto)

***

to Urstruly:

``I dont believe a word of bullshit that you have written. I think that you and janjua have some personal agenda with Mr. N rather than an academic one.``

There`s no fooling you, is there! Off course, you`re right. This is not academic.

I don`t for a minute believe that Naqshbandi believes in the Adam/Eve stuff. He couldn`t possibly write this article if he did.

He kept giving hints with his ``I keep my faith and science separate``.
...and I kept pushing to see if I could get him to speak his mind.

Confirmed negative.

----------

On a more serious note:

Never mind Mr. N. But most humans believe that holding on to some comfortable belief (whatever)...will provide security. This inevitably leads to mental conflicts as facts clash with belief.

Is there anything, in your opinion, which can provide lasting security?

Ironman

I dont believe a word of bullshit that you have written. I think that you and janjua have some personal agenda with Mr. N rather than an academic one. I don`t think that calling him an idiot or objecting to his education makes your ``arguments`` (if they may be termed so) more forceful and logical. I am pissed that you have ruined the whole thread, for what could have been a good academic debate on a subject that is going to affect all of us very soon.

imperial college - good lord! the english standards have gone down indeed!

the problem is not rejecting the evolution theory rather the reason for its rejection - religion. ``adam and eve theory`` cannot be the basis of any rational argument.

one flaw in darwin`s work ``the origin of species`` is that it does not talk about the origins at all. sure, evolution makes sense, once you have different species competing with each other - survival of the fittest and all that - but how was life created in the first place - some interesting stuff i have come across is on the so called intelligent design theory which has profound metaphysical implications.

to Urstruly:

Off course you are a muslim by choice! For some strange reason almost 100% of people `choose` their inherited religion.

We make choices based on our perception of reality. Belief, culture and upbringing create/distort this perception to various degrees.

I`m hoping Mr. N can see his distortions...and/or he can show me mine.

------

to Naqshbandi:

You didn`t answer me...on the mutation issue.

But off course, you cannot disregard mutation. Thats your bread and butter! And perhaps you fear you are treading on dangerous ground here...and so your silence.

Mutation is accidental change. Evolution is planned change.

Couple days back I was watching discovery channel. About creatures living in deep caves. They have no eyes. There`s no light down there. Don`t need `em.

...and about vestigial organs...


-----

One recalls Gallileo here.

He turned his telescope to jupiter and saw something like this:

...O...

Over the next few months, those tiny dots, in a perfect line, changed postion. Sometimes like this:

....O..

and sometimes like this:

......O


He concluded that these satellites were orbiting jupiter...and that eventually broke the back of the earth centric christian religious view.

This hapenned in 1604.

Did christians suffer, as a result of this challenge to heresay?

They are the true rulers of the earth today. Look around you.


(For next 2 weeks I will be travelling...will take part in discussion whenever possible).

janjua,

first of all--i am a biomedical engineer and not a geneticist.
second of all my research is on nanomechanics of mineralised human tissues.
third of all i have got my education from some institutions you might not have heard of--university college london, imperial college london, and manchester university.

***
for the record there are countless scientists who don`t buy the evolution theory.
for an academic discussion of it please see the article by shaykh nuh ha meem keller at www.masud.co.uk in the shaykh nuh section on evolution in the letters section.

also see this: www.harunyahya.com

thanx.

adam & eve theory coming from a docotral candidate is disturbing to say the least - but then the individual is a proud member of the ummah - at least the jackass could have made an attempt to sound logical - maybe some discussion on the so called intelligent design theory - did you flunk your classes in genetics or what? and where are you getting your phd from? malakand institute of technology?

yes

to Urstruly:

``...everyone have a choice to whatever one believs in or not?``

Are you a muslim by choice?

Ironman

If theory of evolution is a matter of belief then shouldn`t everyone have a choice to whatever one believs in or not?

to Naqshbandi:

``i am a scientist--just about to finish my doctorate in fact--insha Allah.``

Good luck with your doctorate. Incidentally, I got mine exactly 10 years ago, in engg. though, not medical.

----

``I see no contradiction between my Faith and my work.``


Naqshbandi, the fact that you are in bio-med compounds ones amazement. You should know more about genetics than the rest of us.

Since you don`t believe in evolution, let me ask you...do you think `mutation` is a myth, then?

ironman-- i am a scientist--just about to finish my doctorate in fact--insha Allah.

I see no contradiction between my Faith and my work.