Exploring the Eternal Jihad: Islam vs. Sexuality

Hey,hi. The interview was really hilarious. This guy seemed to be relating everything to sex, and nothing else. It sounds good that he want to modernise Islam but for this its imp. to learn`` HOW TO PUT HIS WRDS`` so that a common man can understand that. The purpose that he mentioned for his website, is really good, but man he needs to wrk upon his wrds and language, he really seems to be confused. Now i really feel like visiting his website.

Just for your Info.
www.notafatwa.tk , the message on this site says that this site is permanantly closed.

``Not a fatwa`` pretends to be funny...it really isn`t. I think it lacks the sophistication that really drives a good joke and helps it endure. And as far as the personas of ``Imam Mecca-Cola`` and ``Mufti maybe`` are concerned, i think they typify a very precise literary hypocrisy... in other words, theyre trying to be something they`re not and that something is humorously insightful.

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re:#35 by m_souza
Why do you care so much what Pakis think about you? In a world where economic success, achievements etc are respected, Pakis are already on the sidelines. So, they have to keep looking to the past to gain some respectability. They seem to say: Oh, how great we were when all those hords of Ghaznis and their foot soldiers came thundering down the plain raping and looting a helpless population. How great we were when Islam ruled over everything else, when Auranzeb could massacre non-muslims with impunity and destroy their places of worship at will. How the mighty have fallen!
These Pakis forget that they are themselves converts to this new religion (new compared to the timeless religion of Sanatana Dharma). They know it but would not acknowledge. Somewhere deep in their subconscious mind, it rankles (Chowk`s Shrink would have called this a kind of defense mechanism, where the oppressed become the ultimate defenders of oppression). So, they have to doubly defend their newly acquired religon. The defense goes like this: after all this Hindu religion must be bad, otherwise why else would our great-grandparents converted to Islam. They fail to see that their forefathers would have faced a difficult choice: convert or die. Having been converted, these new converts are making a virtue out of necessity. Sons of Ghazni`s sperms are now trying to make us believe Islam is the Utopia. We know what plagues the world today. We have seen the kind of scholarship coming out of the Islamic world. Let them rejoice if it makes some of them feel good.

re:#18 by ali_1
Even in your hatred, you have a sense of humor that would be welcome if it were not hurting the feeling of so many hindus on chowk.
Most hindus here do not give a damn to cow`s urine. May be our forefathers did. Now, i am informed by some sources (in Chowk and others) that cow`s urine may have something in it. After all that senile fool Morarji Desai consumed it and lived to a ripe old age of 93 (missing the century no doubt because he stopped consuming it!).
Sridhar

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#64 by nb on May 13, 2003 4:24am PT

Thanks for understanding the psychology behind how I felt.
Ai_1`s post was not censored because ..maybe all Pakistanis feel disrespect towards Indian(Hindu) women. But if their women become a target of such mockery then they feel bad.

It took some time communicating and convincing even Tipu, an Indian muslim..so it is very hard for any Pakistani muslim to feel decent about Hindu women. This is true to a great extent. Maybe, watching Hindi movies. Maybe they don’t like free thinking women with their own minds.
Now why do I bother at all? I personally feel Indians should not bother communicating with them too much. But we also have to send our view points rather then let them live in their make-believe world about us.

I wrote: ``At the same time, I myself feel that Indian women should not confuse `freedom` and moderisation with `westernisation`(with all its wrong values too)
So, westernisation with any wrong excessive values is to be avoided but westernisation with its right values is to be adopted.
Yes, it is better to be western than to be Indonesian. Of course, women should have same rights as men in anything they do and both should have values beneficial for the (Indian) society.

An apology for posting the same thing twice,I thought it had not gone through the first time.
m-souza,you do not come across as a disrespectful person,I just think that perhaps you got carried away because of ali_1`s statement,which should never have got through the censors anyway.Your comment on westernisation as opposed to modernisation was interesting,as our concept of modern is western,not,say,Swazi or Indonesian,though I mean no disrespect to those cultures.So is it all right for men to be westernised,though?

#62 by Tipu on May 12, 2003 9:25pm PT

``My Asian i DID NOT IMPLY OR MEAN HINDU ! ``

Achcha achcha theek hai
Even I don`t think Zeenat is besharam, she is an artist..like any other Indian actress. And man..this is India..nobody cares..women are smart and have freedom to do whatever they want
Tabu is too wonderful an artist though.

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#59 by nb on May 12, 2003 7:13am PT
``m_souza,please do not make things worse by saying things about Muslim women.Your problem is with Ali_1-leave Muslim women out of it.``

Honestly, I don`t have anything against Muslim women. After all, in my country we have so many muslim women..some are very bright, talented women..no less than men. Look what Waheeda REhman and Shaban are doing for society. Indian muslim women have the liberty and the right atmosphere to come forward and do whatever they want to do in life. Rather I wish to do something those who do not have the courage to come out..as they are my compatriots too..
Its only the `holier than thou` attitude of muslim men that is bugging..that thier women are more vituous than any other, including hindu...that needs some reformation.
At the same time, I myself feel that Indian women should not confuse `freedom` and moderisation with `westernisation`(with all its wrong values too)

37 by Roshan on May 11, 2003 1:14pm PT
Rennaisence mant,nb!....The most you can expect & earn by such ``ALLOO`` is a stolen kiss from a naive girl in the darkness of Matinee show movie theatre!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-))
Roshan,life has taught me to be mildly paranoid( I meet some very strange people in my line of work) so I do not want to emphasise my gender.However,you jumped to the conclusion that I was male.With sadna as well,though I haven`t been a member on chowk long,I have been a lurker long enough to know she is female!
BTW,blenders were probably a result of feminism!!As for the others,please get a grip,I never said feminism was responsible for food(although,come to think of it,it is only because of feminism that single mothers can hold their heads up high and go to work and put food on the table).If some men are going to be anti-feminist,that is another discussion for another time.
I resent the attitude of `our women` and their women.Women are not a commodity to be owned in this manner,but I notice both Indians and Pakistanis,Hindus and Muslims doing it.Although similarly educated white men might think this way,they would hesitate to express it,unless they were members of Aryan Nation or similar.
m_souza,please do not make things worse by saying things about Muslim women.Your problem is with Ali_1-leave Muslim women out of it.

37 by Roshan on May 11, 2003 1:14pm PT
Rennaisence mant,nb!....The most you can expect & earn by such ``ALLOO`` is a stolen kiss from a naive girl in the darkness of Matinee show movie theatre!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-))
Roshan,life has taught me to be mildly paranoid( I meet some very strange people in my line of work) so I do not want to emphasise my gender.However,you jumped to the conclusion that I was male.With sadna as well,though I haven`t been a member on chowk long,I have been a lurker long enough to know she is female!
BTW,blenders were probably a result of feminism!!As for the others,please get a grip,I never said feminism was responsible for food(although,come to think of it,it is only because of feminism that single mothers can hold their heads up high and go to work and put food on the table).If some men are going to be anti-feminist,that is another discussion for another time.
I resent the attitude of `our women` and their women.Women are not a commodity to be owned in this manner,but I notice both Indians and Pakistanis,Hindus and Muslims doing it.Although similarly educated white men might think this way,they would hesitate to express it,unless they were members of Aryan Nation or similar.
m_souza,please do not make things worse by saying things about Muslim women.Your problem is with Ali_1-leave Muslim women out of it.

Tipu..you are incorregible..Muslim this..muslim that..muslims are great..muslims are pure…muslims are the Best…
You guys are just…too much…as if Hindustan did not exist before muslims came..all the mathematics India gave to the world..all vast knowledge..of course women were respected in the times of Ramayana (laxman and hanumans respect for Seeta) and Mahabharata..(Radha, Draupadi, Meera)… there was enough sharam and purdah..and all the later years too..
Every woman is referred to as Maa or behan..devi..

And Tipu….What you say or pretend and what you actually believe in are two different things. If you remember what you wrote to me in another series of posts.. Good advice for Pakistanis by Veeresh Malik
{{#56 by Tipu on May 5, 2003 9:04pm PT
Souza
Dont get me wrong i dont recall you telling me that a Pakistani had told you .It was an ignorant Muslim may be but if my word is worth anything i will protect a Indian hindu with my life against a Muslim fanatics.I have nothing against normal hindu or Hinduism.I dont even think about differences b/c we both were born what we are .Like our colour height & race is beyond our control and therefore should never be basis of discrimination of politics.
I hope you dont feel bad about my posts .}}

In the above case a Paki Muslim had insulted Hinduism by saying things about cow..u defended him except for your last post.

And now another one was just being too insulting in the below posts:
{{#11 by ali_1 on May 8, 2003 11:03am PT
`` Why Hindu girls date Muslim guys? ``
A word of caution. Hindu girls do not shave their armpits or legs or anywhere else and take showers only once a week or so. And beware of Hindu pu$$y, it smells like an Indian restaurant and tastes like a rotten dosa. }}
{{#18 by ali_1 on May 9, 2003 2:27pm PT
Bhagwan forbid, I can never be intimate with anyone who imbibes cow urine and other bovine fecal substances. This was reported by my dog Nehru.}}

Here, in the above posts, again a paki muslim had written atrocious things about Hindu women. Just read it carefully. ..but maybe you liked it..and if you did..there is no reason nay Indian Hindu should not be friendly with Indian muslims.
And all other posts including mine that followed were a reaction to ali_1 ki posts.
Aren’t these Hindu women your country women too??
Again why are you trying to defend Ali(a paki muslim) by providing statistics about muslim < nonmuslims(christain or asian whatever)..


++
#52 by Tipu on May 11, 2003 8:28pm PT
#46 by m_souza on May 11, 2003 5:54pm PT
#44 by Tipu on May 11, 2003 4:18pm PT
When it comes to shaping of Indian morality Islam has influenced it descendingly from North downwards.There are northern hindus who have 100% conformity with Muslim zenana areas & male areas ....to your south Kamaasutra style permissiveness of Ajanta Ellora.
I can not say ,may be Hindus will ascend from South permeating the North to make North all like Ajanta Ellora ..I dont know . If you read social history ..Nirad C.Chowdhury ..he marks` ghunghat` zana khana laaj `haya` `sharam` to arrival of Islamic influence. ++

I am not from the south..so I don’t know about permissiveness out there.
But then who knows..in such old and ancient times..when your ancestors were Hindus…. it was one of your ancestors who also danced Ajanta Ellora type dance…
’Haya..laaj,…purdah’ is good…but too much of it is required only by those women who donot have control on themselves… Too much of purdah is demanded by those men who don’t trust their own friends..plus who don’t trust thier women…
So ..Mughals kept their women in harems.…in purdah..where they would visit them one by one…so men had a right to not only look at many women but also enjoy them…but only a women was supposed to have haya..
In the current day world, a women is supposed to be good, have ‘sharam’ but while working out she can’t have ‘ghoonghat’. But aren’t men too supposed to be good as well?? Have sharam? Not look at other women except theirs?? A society can be good only if it has no double standards.
And there has always been decency in Indian women of all times and ages, not just mughals..although they played their role in an already existing culture..