Rights (un)Defined

It is nice to read something of this sort.
I really appreciate that.
The problem with our society we give our fuzool rasm-o-riwaj more importance then what our religion has told us.
Islam has given rights to both the genders, men is created to be lived as a men and women as women both have their rights, and if we follow those rights the life will be easy but here comes the culture, (what we have adopted from Hinduism where wife has to die if her man dies...It might be not practiced now but it was there.)

Other thing that is in our culture is too much is the EGO... in men and in women as well.
Women should be educated enough so that she can think of what is wrong and what is wrong, and to know things which will help her in growing her children.
for example: our mothers and fathers don’t know what’s on internet and how harmful it could be if not used correctly but they really don’t know and they don’t stop their children as they don’t know.

Zahar,

I know! This world is confusing. I go both ways and like it.

What do you think????

Pl. don`t dear me. I like informal relations.

So, are you ready to proceed??

Dear Hossp:

Before I proceed, I just want to confirm your gender. Your previous post was slightly confusing in that regard.

Thanks.

#44 by huma_mir

i dig down deep and present a totally new way of looking at things and you discard it as ridiculous with no counter? anyone can wear hijab; my view is that in the process they opt out of evolution, and perhaps this is a perfect example of god acting in mysterious ways...

Zahra Baj!!!!

a) They are overbearing and control freak.

Excellent observation... This does sound like my ex-wife but my current is not far behind. And when I tell her I am gonna have second wife she tells me She is my second wife...Now I can`t have second again!!! What a life.

b) Lacking in leadership and a strong back bone. Cannot stand up for their ownself...forget about being the protectors of anyone.

True too... thats me. I do need protection... from you know who...

c) All phoon phaan is supposedly in store for their better-halves.

Right on! Yeah! She Phoon-Phaans me everyday...

d) Misuse implementation of religion to manipulate women vs. using religion to become better human beings and contributing to their respective societies.

...All women manipulated men every day...Every married man knows that....

...But we were talking about Muslim men and their two seengs...weren`t we????

What is the other reason?????

Dear Hossp:

Thank you for your genuine inquiry.

I would love to walk you through the reasoning. Yes, the Muslim Guys have two seengs on their heads.

a) They are overbearing and control freak.
b) Lacking in leadership and a strong back bone. Cannot stand up for their ownself...forget about being the protectors of anyone.
c) All phoon phaan is supposedly in store for their better-halves.
d) Misuse implementation of religion to manipulate women vs. using religion to become better human beings and contributing to their respective societies.

The above are a few highlights of why they need assistance, in fact constant support. And, let me emphasize that support can come from all channels, but if it comes from the Muslim Women then it will be real sweet. For if the Muslim Women have to beat the crap out of the recalcitrant Muslim Men then they will have more patience to do so. There is another reason as well, but I will come back to it later.

Hope the above helps.

echoboom:

I guess lately I am causing way too many tears of joy...I guess I need to be careful.

Thank you for the reminder.

“The Muslim Women of today ought to be understanding and kind towards the Muslim Men of today. Simple!”- ZahraJ

Zahra Baji! Why can’t non-Muslim women be kind and understanding to Muslim men?? Or Muslim women be kind to non Muslim men? What makes Muslim men different than other men? Do Muslim men have “doo Seeng” instead of the one other regular men have?

#37 by inquilaabi

Initially, I did not realize that Hafsa is an O level student, otherwise I would not have come down on her this hard. I just hope that this will help her start reading some more books instead of just believing in the doctored religion that is being taught in Pakistan.

I never said that the Quran is an outdated book.
There is no book in world that is outdated except may be the phone book if that is a book at all.

What I think is that the Quran is a book of religion. It is not a book of Mathematics, Sociology, or psychology. It does not have solutions to all the problems that are out there. There is no point in bringing up the Quran when the issue has no religious connotations.
In Pakistan, mullah and their likes have been saying that the Islam is a complete code of conduct. When confronted with specific questions, and when they really have no answers, they start astaghfir ullahing you.

There really is no point in putting the Quran in everybody’s face when there is no need to do that. In this case, the Quran has nothing to do with women’s rights, as when Quran became the religious book, the women’s rights issues in the current form did not exist. So, how the Quran would have solutions for issues that were not even visualized some 1400 odd years ago????

#43 Jang - your posting are, frankly, rediculous. I mean, its really a waste of time for you and others to put so much focus on a piece of cloth. If someone believes that he/she has to always wear some bandana, or a piece of jewlery, or anything he/she feels like, let them. I do not wear hijab. But if i have many friends who out of their free will have chosen to do so. And I respect them for it, just like i respect those guys who show up in public wearing piercings all over their body.

Your stupid and illogical discussion about ``hijab`` plays with symatntecs, and really adds nothing to anyone`s intellect. Please move on to a topic you know something about.

regards

Internet is the best Hijab.. Mashallah! No one knows how you look.

On a more serious note, hijab is dangerous from evolutionary perspective. God has made us animals, and asked that we evolve over time. Sexuality is a really big part of it. Through evolution, we have lost our sense of smell, which we used in past to select our mates by sensing mysterious (offsourse god-ordained) signals. Now only thing that is left is looking. Taking it away is seriously tampering with the bussiness of evolution. For example, I have heard from previous generation women commenting on curvy-fuller form girls to be better as child-bearing bahus. These are important visual indicators, learned over time. Remove these, and we will evolve as blind.

ZahraJ:39
``The Muslim Women of today ought to be understanding and kind towards the Muslim Men of today. Simple! ``

---

Thank you ZahraJ (wiping tears of gratitude)

An off-line discussion between Hafsa and yourself would be quite beneficial. It is muslim women who should talk more to othe muslim women. Muslim men have been as much on the receiving end in a world torn apart by `` from hereon vices-are-virtues`` ``bad-is-good`` and ``peace-offensive`` type of techno-lingo-crap.

40:
Care to elaborate what is ``going to the other extreme in US``. by your own standards. How much did you consider deviancy from Qura`an enough?

& if you are not a muslim (names don`t mean much on net) why do this going extreme bother you anyway?

An observation not backed by stats.....

I have seen children of very rich and liberal going ``mulla`` in US.

And the children of highly religious in Pakistan going to the other extreme in US.

And I have witnessed some Pakistani women wearing full Niqab, ``gloves`` & socks at all times when out of home. And doing purdah from their husband`s friends and husband`s relatives.

Some socialogist can explain this phenomenon better - but it seems to have something to do with ``rebellion``, ``seeking attention``, ``seeking sympathy`` - or just gone wacky under the cultural isolation/pressures of the society.

Hafsa,

Who is your audience here?

[The truth is that our religion, Islam, gives her more rights and elevates her status to a much higher degree than any feminist movement can. ]

Irony is that many Muslim Women get carried away by the ``status elevation`` and feel quite happy in that make belief world. Real world demands women to come out and face and withstand all the challenges. It does not jeopardize their femininity. It prepares them for further growth and development which is not a current priority of many muslim women of today. Reality check is required here. Last but not least, the men of today are also not capable of handling the real world challenges by themselves and require women to pitch in all facets of life. So, kur bhala ho bhala. The Muslim Women of today ought to be understanding and kind towards the Muslim Men of today. Simple!

hafsa,

............ if you want to walk around in a death shroud and are willing to be accepted as half a person in a court of law or get half your brother`s inheritance or get beaten ``lightly`` every friday by your husband or share your husband`s bed with three other women, you are more than welcome to do so ............ i am sure you will find lots of men who are more than happy to go along with it .............. but please don`t promote this nonsense for other women - they deserve better; they deserve to be treated as human beings, not as chattel or pets ...........

Minhaj & the rest of the confused world,
Is the Quran really outdated? If you look at it, most religions could be considered outdated but how is it that some of us who consider ourselves to be of `the faith` can move forward even if we accept and follow the sacrality of the words in such `outdated` books.

Today I was thinking about how ideas progress with time, and how each `religion` progresses from a previous one when it appears. Thus Christianity, with Christ`s focus more on spirit and love than Law progresses a little further than its predecessor. One would think that Islam did that as well. One would think that Islam was more progressive than regressive ` Is this my maligned western education talking? Perhaps. But I remember Islamiyat classes as a child, and it makes me wonder and question those who are ready to dismiss Islam altogether because it has been misinterpreted and taken over by ignorant minds and hearts.

If we should be so inclined to promote the interests and the rights of women, should it not be because of what we believe? Does morality not play a role? In the end, is it only secularists, atheists, agnostics and the demoralized `commies` who have the right answers as to what the interests and rights of women are? Do any of us have the right answers? I think not.

When the Quran was written, and when most if not all of the holy books were written, they were written keeping in mind the culture they were in at the time. Those cultures may appear as barbaric to some, but those people lived through it, they managed somehow. That is not to say that we in the 21st century should return to those times.
I would question the fact that the Quran-e-Majid or the bible do not serve the needs of the modern woman. How much has `humanity` itself served the needs of many people in this world. And why do you think it is that in times of war and aggressive conflicts, riots and the like, one of the first glorious achievements of soldiers and men is to rape and murder women? How bloody barbaric is that?

Points to ponder? Hypocrisies to overcome? Miles to go before everyone sleeps? You decide. I think of revolutionaries like Dorothy Day, a former Marxist anarchist turned Catholic who even if she was problematical to the left in her wanting to `save` them, recognized and acknowledged their humanity. She recognized and applauded the left`s greater commitment to the needy and poor of a particular neighborhood, greater than those of her new faith. She was relentless in her outpouring to those who struggled for equal rights, fed the poor, spoke out against war, and all this was enhanced by her reading an `outdated` book. That holy book served her needs in the modern world. And if that could happen, then there might be, just might be hope for the Quran yet. And perhaps for people as well.

And the struggle continues!