Karachi Blast - The Untold Story

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#151 by ahmadzai on May 12, 2004 5:35am PT

Ahmadzai:

And with your background, I feel Chowk will see more posts from you that have absolutely no basis. Good for you if you are optimistic about Pakistan`s prospects, but unfortunately the world is not so sanguine.

When you express your opinions in a forum, expect your beliefs to be questioned. And when you write lengthy posts without backing them up with concrete evidence, you are not contributing to a healthy discussion. You might as well stay away from it.

bongdongs its already been answered in previous posts -- in case you didnt realize i am not dawn`s official spokesman on this site, though the queries i have had to answer in the past might suggest that

BLAME GOES TO OUR PRESIDENT WHO IS ALSO A GENERAL, JAMALI IS A TOY CONTROLLED BY PERVEZ. OUR COUNTRY IS IN GREAT JEOPARDY BECOZ OF HIM HE IS NOT KEEN ENOUGHT TO MAKE OUR INTELLIGENCE DEPARTMENT STRONG, ALL HE WANT IS POWER EVEN IT COME FROM THE INNOCENT BLOOD. ON THE CONTARY PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN ARE SITTING IN THEIR WITHOUT EVEN PROTESTING AGAINT THIS PROBLEM. A LOT PERIOD OF PEACE WAS SEEN BY BOTH SHIA AND SUNNY AND THIS WAS NOT TOLERATED BY THE OUTSIDERS HENCE THEY FRAMED ALL THIS. WHO KNOWS IT COULD BE THE WORK OF R.A.W OR F.B.I. ALL I WANT THE PEOPLE OF PAKISTAN IS TO UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION DON`T BE NOSTALGIC. PLEASE

#155 Omar,

Forget about Mishra-ji, I see no response from you regarding Dawn`s editorial policy vis-a-vis ``freedom fighters``.

pmishra ji no bigger namoona than you -- of a congenital paki-basher that is

#124, #136

[quote]
`` JAMMU, May 9: A civilian was killed and three others critically injured on Sunday when freedom fighters lobbed grenades in a marketplace in the held Kashmir a day before elections, police said. The grenades were thrown in the busy market in Doda, 185km from here. -AFP``
[end-quote]

Very well put. A fetid stink of hypocrisy surrounds those who want to condemn senseless murders in pakistan but refuse to denounce them elsewhere. We have several namoonas on this list who fall into this category, the leading example our friend Omar Qureishi. If what is going on in J&K is ``freedom struggle`` than events in Karachi and Gadar are also freedom struggle. L

Let freedom come to every town in Pakistan ! Why restrict it to us poor kafirs across the border.

hahaha nooralain -- like romair seems to have pointed out inadvertantly i dont need to explain to you or to anyone else how much i have written in favour of pakistanis minorities, how much i have written that laws like the one on blasphemy must be repealed, or how much of a liar the govt is when it claims to protect the rights of the minorities -- or that when abdus salam died, i wrote his obituary and argued with my editor (i was a reporter then) that it should be taken on the front page -- dawn had it as its second lead story on the front page -- an unheard of thing for an obituary report -- as for responsibilities as assistant editor nooralain, yes i am quite aware of them -- the editorial had a view that the blast is a very tragic reminder that our police, our law enforcement and intelligence agencies need to get their acts together -- that if they dont these things will repeat over and over again and destroy our society`s fabric, which is already in considerable tatters -- we held the govt accountable and said that something needs to be done about the madressahs that breed such bombers and pointed out that this might not have happened were it not for our `misadventures` in the past -- and you know what nooralain -- i know minorities have a very hard time in pakistan -- i know that you know this better than me but let me tell you that the majority has a pretty hard time too -- the average pakistani who gets screwed by everyone in society -- and when he is being screwed they dont ask him for his religion -- i dont mind you telling us how bad christians have it -- what i do mind is you telling me what my responsibilities are or are not since i am quite aware of them -- as for avoiding questions, you asked me if i am an elitist myself -- well i dont know nooralain -- i write in english, talk mostly in a mixture of english and urdu and lead a life that is definitely comfortable than that of the average pakistani -- but my work to a great extent involves writing on public interest/social issues -- and i like you also studied abroad (actually at an ivy league place -- so i must definitely be ELITIST NOW) but i came back -- come to think of it the place i live in karachi is also generally considered quite elitist notwithstanding the fact that it is virtually overrun with stray dogs, has power breakdowns every day, every street has a missing manhole cover and every open plot is used as a garbage dump -- so i am not sure what i am nooralain, but what i am sure is that i dont have to explain myself to you or to anyone else on this site -- as for calling u missy well dear you called my place of work, something i quite like, a rag, so the least i can call you is missy, or cant i ?

as for my rudeness oozing thru in my posts -- nooralain, that happened after people began to question my person, my judgment and my responsibilities based on what i wrote or what i do or dont do -- they should question the content instead and we can debate forever on that if they want -- if someone is going to be rude or judgmental they should expect to be responded to in kind --
romair is probably one of the few ones on this site who doesnt get personal and tries to be reasonable, altho almost everyone seems to do the same with him --

nooralain dah ling -- couldnt you think something better than `u r the weakest link`!??

My dear harish:

You might have noticed that I rarely exchange views with Indians with a view to convincing them. I notice where you are coming from and respect your point of view. I see that with your background, it would be impossible to alter your opinion about Pakistan even by a decimeter. However, I am convinced about the points I made in my last post and feel very good about the way we are currently headed. Like I keep saying, we can always agree to disagree in a respectful and an honorable way.

:-)

#143 by ahmadzai on May 11, 2004 6:32am PT

[Did not let American troops enter Pakistan. The last time, the only time (and that was last week), Americans entered Pakistani soil by mistake, they apologized quickly.]

There have been more than 1 instance of American troops intruding (or is it with the understanding and complicity of the Paki Army?) into Paki territory, not to mention that they even destroyed a mosque at Angoor Adda (or something) inside Pakistan to eliminate some terrorists holed in by calling in a fighter jet. Apologized? It`s like raping one`s wife and then apologizing.


[Did not send Pakistani military to Iraq. Yesterday, his foreign office spokesmen told `Occupation Forces` to leave Iraq.]

You didn`t mention that the FO spokesman very recently said that Pakistan was still considering the US request for troops to Iraq. Asking the so-called-by-mainly-Pakis `Occupation Forces` to leave, that`s not a refusal, is it?


[Did not roll down Pakistani nuclear and the missile programs.]

But publicly humiliated the father of the Paki bomb by asking him to apologize to the whole nation on TV, stripping him of whatever position he held and placing him under house arrest. Doing this in itself is a roll-back of sorts. By the way, in a country where even a guy peeing is observed by the ubiquitous ISI, how did AQ Khan escape notice? Isn`t it fishy?


[Did not forget about Kashmir to the complete disappointment of Indians, while opposition kept on blaming that he will.]

The Kashmir issue is for all practical purposes dead. From providing moral, diplomatic, and military support to a `just cause` to claiming that `even the Indian Army chief has admitted that the infiltration has come down`, you guys have come a long way. Way to go!


[His foreign office spokesman rebuked American ambassador in Afghanistan in strongest of terms when he tested Pakistan with the well known `need to do more` routine.]

Nancy Powell has done it right in the heart of Paki territory in Islamabad. Zalmay Khalilzad has done it more than once. If these statements had no approval from the Bush administration, you think they would still be in office? That`s the American way of doing or getting things done buddy. Get used to it.


[Did not go and kill all the accused in tribal areas under pressure. He took his time, got tribals on his side and let them do the talking. The tribals are again set to do the talking on his behalf.]

Did you read yesterday`s newspapers? Nek Mohammed has denied that there ever were any foreign fighters on Paki territory prompting a furious government spokesman to make the contents of the kiss-and-make-up deal public. Nice way to get the tribals on your side!


[As to your other concerns, including the statement that I wanted to give semblance of respectability to the sectarian Jihadis, I don`t even want to respond to the crap. Even your mother would have disowned you on such blatant exagerration.]

Revisit my post and try to understand it before venting out your anger. And I thought you were good at English!

BTW, you never answered my questions. Am I to understand that you don`t have any answers?

nooralian #146: One needs to be able to accept some criticism. One cannot just criticize others, and not accept criticism, one`s self. I pointed out three issues, and you seem to have started attacking me, instead of the points I made:

1) You are not the only one affected by the bomb blasts in Karachi, and hence need to accept the fact that others are also. Hence you do not have a monopoly of going on a tirade against everyone and anyone

2) One should not let anger get the best of one`s self

3) You need to let the Kashmiris speak for themselves, and not become their spokesperson. You have every right to comment on what Pakistan should do in regard to Kashmir. But I don`t think you have a right to make blanket statements on who is killing innocent Kashmiris. Let them tell everyone, themselves.....

These are all perfectly valid arguments. One can counter them, or agree to them, or debate them. However, you have stated the following:

``i wouldn`t say how you and some others `analyze` a situation here is very constructive......meanwhile `freedom fighters` are still killing kashmiris......they speak to your delusions or ignorance perhaps is more apropos of situations......why do you feel that i should silence myself......in order to silence me or patronize me or whatever.......it has been said that i am an even bigger idiot than you for responding what they call your idiotic posts. perhaps there may be some truth in that......you cringe when the mirror is raised up to you......i will not be returning to this board. .``

I am not sure what your response has to do with the points I made. I never called you an idiot, nor did I attach any other kind of label to you. Yet you called me idiotic. And furthur called me delusional and ignorant. Is anyone who disagrees with what you say, automatically idiotic, delusional and ignorant?

I never said you should shut up. Yet you claim that I did. I have debated issues with Christians and women before, yet none of them have ever called me an idiot, delusional or ignorant, even though we have disagreed on things. That is why I used the example of PM and Ijaz-Gul. The fact that they were Christians and me, a Muslim, was neither here, nor there. In fact, reiligious minorities and women (other than ZahraJ and sadna) are the only two groups who have not called me names :-) Everyone else has. With your name calling, I now have to take both these groups off that list. You have killed two groups with one stone :-)

Should one debate issues differently with you because you are angry and Christian and female, or should one debate issues with you, like they would with any other Pakistani? I could care less if you are Christian (or Muslm, or Hindu or Bhuddhist, or a woman for that matter), I will debate issues with you, like I do with all other Pakistanis.

Everyone has anger in them. But that does not give one a right to just attack others, left and right......If you take the time to understand my comments, you will realize that many of us are actually on your side. Without getting into a debate of whether Omar Qureshi is a good or bad assistant editor, it is a fact that he writes in favor of religious minorities and women. My comments on these issues are well-documented on this site, also (to the point of even indulging in poetry :-)). Yet here you are, in a heated name-calling debate with both of us.

Could it be that we are on your side, and just asking you to cool down your attacks, and you are viewing that as an attack on yourself........

#147

When are we as Pakistanis going to realize that flashing the Modi Advani card in the faces of the Indian interactors here is hypocritical to say the least, when they read the same news we do, and they know what goes on in Pakistan? The `garebaan mai jhaank kar dekhna` works both ways. Let`s try remembering that.

arjun_m at # 145:

Perhaps Pakistanis should have learnt our lessons from superior Indians, the success stories, but poor people with superiority complex seem to find solace in interacting with Pakistanis only tut tut tut.

Yes, I think Pakistanis should have learnt our lessons from Indians like arjun-m: kill Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and innocent Hindus in bloody riots and elevate the status of the killers like Advanis, Joshis and Modis by electing them to power. WOW!

romair:

might i point out that it is very disingenuous of you to speak of being judgmental, when you have made gross assumptions and judgments of your own? they are scattered all over this website. as are mine. they speak to your delusions or ignorance perhaps is more apropos of situations.

i have not, nor do i ever speak for kashmiris. however, if you are telling me that i should refrain from commenting on something that has affected pakistan for practically ALL of its existence, forgive me, but i don`t think you have any business telling me that. and furthermore, you do not know how educated i am, or how i continue to educate myself when it comes to kashmir. i am still a pakistani citizen, and if i cannot comment or express an opinion on how policies in pakistan affect our own people as well as others, then i really have no business remaining a citizen of pakistan do i?

if you don`t think i should comment on the fact that kashmiris are dying and have been , at the hands of both indians and pakistanis. .then so be it. do i speak for kashmiris? no, i do not. i don`t even speak for all christians, and i would be presumptuous to do so.

having said that, i don`t understand why you feel the need to compare the environment i was raised in, to that of patrick, and ijaz gul. and given what you have said about being judgmental, i resent the fact that you should judge how i should express not just my anger, but my concern. why do you feel that i should silence myself, because afterall, patrick and ijaz gul have lived under these pressures as well. do i deny their experiences, such that they have been by expressing myself? no. have i ever commented on their experiences, and the fact that they don`t express something similar to what i do? no. it makes me smile that you and others should say `you are not the only one this has happened to. .` in order to silence me or patronize me or whatever. no. . .i am NOT the only one this has happened to. . .and that is my whole point. everyone expresses themselves differently. i am not patrick, or ijaz gul (and they perhaps are very thankful for that). i have already apologized for having implied that no one else was concerned. of course there are many here who are, most, even, i`d say, but this article, like most other articles here chose to take the route of the blame game and analyses, and personal insults. . .and quite frankly, i don`t think that articles on chowk will ever get away from that. thankfully some of us individuals can.

it has been said that i am an even bigger idiot than you for responding what they call your idiotic posts. perhaps there may be some truth in that. anger has torn me up to a great extent, but contrary to what some may think, i do not channel that into hate, or indifference towards muslims. i do not mistrust muslims as some in my mother`s village, my home away from home away from home do, and they have a damned good reason to. . .their homes and their places of worship were destroyed, and they were ignored for quite some time by any high-ranking official. no doubt there are other communities in pakistan which have experienced the same. no doubt there are countless people in pakistan who are being ignored and oppressed in the name of islam, of `progress`, of capitalism, of whatever. do i speak for all of them? hell no. i speak from what i have seen, from what i have heard, and from what has been said to me, to members of my family, to what has been done to me, and members of my family and my community. my mother`s village is by extension my village, and i will never feel the safety and security again that i did when i spent holidays there. i am glad, romair sahib, that you are not consumed by anger about your prison term, but i request you ever so kindly not to make assumptions as to my anger, and what it is doing to me. my anger is what has always directed me to fight against oppression, and racism, and sexism, and so no, i will not stop being angry. you on the other hand are free to do whatever you please, wherever you please, because as it is, you feel perfectly `justified` to make your own assumptions, but like the rest of us, especially myself, you cringe when the mirror is raised up to you.

i will not be returning to this board. . .peace be with you all.

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