No Compromise on Murder

Where have you gone urstruly? You did not reply to my quesion whether you cosider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a false prophet on technical gounds only, i.e.,he having been time-barred in claiming his prophethood or consider him disqualified for the job on merit. In other words would you have accepted his claim if it had been within the time allowed for prophethood? Do you know that according to the Quran a similar claim regarding finality of prophethood was made in respect of the prophet Yousaf but that could not stop the advent of prophets, genuine or false. They were all rejected on merit as no body seem to have rejected any of them by invoking the time bar.

29 by Urstruly

Excuse me dear Urstruly you seem to have got provoked and become presumptuously personal. How did you pesume that I am a `Quadiani`? Was it an `Ilham` of Mirza type? So you are also guilty of trying to break the seal of finalty of communication between man and his God. I may tell you that I have signed and submitted the `Halafnama` which is obligatory to be treated oficially as a Muslim in Pakistan when actually I may be worse than a Quadiani as according to my faith the most wicked thing in a man is `Takabbar` and `Gheebat` and one commits both these sins in signing that halaf nama.

By the way you reject the claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to prophethood purely on techical grounds of inability of God to open a dialogue with man fom certain date onwards. Does this mean that you accept his claim on merit.

29 by Jang

``as an outsider to the faith, i find several quoted hadeeth very childish and do not invoke any reverence whatsoever..is it due to the translations or lack of context?``

THese Ahadeeth are quite authentic as these are quoted in the compilation of Sunnan Abudawud which is included in the `Suha Sitta`, the Six Authentic compilatins of Ahadeeih. In fact the Fundamentalists quote the Hadeeth about lynching of a slave woman by a blind Sahabi in support of the Law of Blasphemy whereas the enlightened moderates touch their ears on hearing such Ahadeeth. On the face of it the hadeeth in question sees to be blasphemic as it negates the image of the Prophet as ``Rehmatulaalimin``, so cherished by the Muslim, but who dares to speak against the mullah with his terrorist outfit.

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i knew it. its the fasting. thanks for the link urstruly. of the two hadith, i found the one about old woman kind of simple-minded and second one sligtly more profound. offcourse, in a right state of mind, even Anand Bakshi (hindi song) lyrics are sometimes profound. like i said, for a non-believer like me, the hadiths seen on chowk make me wonder if they are ill-translated or out of context. i suspect you have to get into it to get it.

now good food .. i get that easily.

Urstruly,

... considering how profusely your nose is bleeding, I think your fast is technically over ...

Do explain to Jang the hadith … “whoever changes his religion, kill him”. I am sure he would be astounded by its depth and beauty.

Yaar … you sound a bit naraaz … was it something I said? (but first, can you spell 4-0-1-k?)

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Teshah / Jang …

Sometime ago I quoted this hadith to Urstruly (where a pregnant slave was killed for blasphemy). He went berserk … and started rambling … what do you expect … Muhammad was also a human like you and me … and may have made mistakes …etc. etc..

I asked, “fair enough ... but if he was a human like you and me, why do you ignore Quran and instead follow ahadith?”. To this, mullah Urstruly did not respond. Considering his ramblings in recent posts, he still seems to be suffering from earlier psychological wounds.

And such is the sad state of ignorant mullahs …

Jang

I think you havn`t been looking very hard or you haven`t even looked before casting your judgement. The fact of the matter is that almost every book that is written on the biography of Prophet (pbuh) contain chapters on the words of wisdom that he said. These ahadith are also categorized as biographical, his humor, his wisdom, his laws etc. Please keep in mind that he was a religious leader in his entirety so most of his words of wisdom revolve around the set of beliefs he promoted throughout his life.

An example of his humor is mentioned in a hadith where upon seeing a very old woman offering her prayers he said ``No old woman will ever go to heaven``. Upon hearing this, woman was quite shocked and started to sobb. Prophet comforted that woman and said ``God will make everyone youthful prior to enetring the heaven``.

In another hadith which contains very profound explanation on the meaning of life narrates that once he was sitting among his companions with a twig in his hand. With that twig he drew a rectangle in the ground and then drew a line that originated from the center of triangle and cut through one of its side extending outward. Then he asked his companions that if the size of rectangle had a direct relationship (directly propotional) with the size of the line then would the rectangle ever outgrow the line. The companions replied that it was not possible. Then he explained that the rectangle represents the biological age of man and line represents his desires and wishes. Man`s desires and wishes always exceed his natural age. Man wants to live for ever, and keeps hoping that his desires will be fulfilled but he always dies with desires unfulfilled. This explanation then follows by a sermon where he explained that how it is necessary for man to try to limit his desires and fulfil the purpose for which he was sent on earth i.e. obedience to God and being kind to His creation.

I cannot recall the name of a book in English, but there are several resources available on web where his words of wisdom have been collated. One such website is;

http://www.islamfortoday.com/athar16.htm


Sattar:

I am fasting. I have nothing more to say to you.

Urstruly … (#25):

Didn’t mean to hurt you … so must ask … was it something I said?

… maybe it was the reference to your smelly attire at the visa office … or the scorn in the officer’s eye … or knowing that for a 401k plan, you’ve quietly traded izaat of your sisters to your white masters (to employ your lingo). We’ve all wondered this about you … don’t disappoint us now ...

Moving on …

Crushing Ahmadis should not be your objective … it can`t be ... you can no longer afford it. It has already cost you much time and resources, with no results to show. And now you’ve got big problems … as the infidel armies and corporations kick you all over the globe ...

Correctly identify the enemy first … or you’ll continue to suffer humiliation and destruction. There`s not much time left ... pal.

Nature has brutally punished idiots throughout the course of evolution. You are not the first one.

#27 by teshah

as an outsider to the faith, i find several quoted hadeeth very childish and do not invoke any reverence whatsoever..is it due to the translations or lack of context?

zen stories however sound deep (even when i dont get them).

hindu puranic stories are totally fantastic, but then then noone goes around quoting them.

teshah

Doesn`t it sound quite hypocritical for a Quadiani to point to such a hadith as you did it in your post. Well if you accept this hadith to be true (which I do by the way), then you must also accept 450+ ahadith that explain the Finalty of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) from every possible angle. Isn`t it true that when Quadianis are pointed towards those hadith they say that those ahadith were invented by moulvis for their ulterior motives. Well, doesn`t the common sense suggest that if moulvis can alter hadith at their will then shouldn`t they hide such ahadith like one you wrote in your post, after all such ahadith aparently refute their claims that Prophet (pbuh) was a prophet of mercy and compassion for all worlds?

As the urdu proverb goes, Quadiani want ``chupRi aur dou dou``. Sharam karo bayghairto.

hamidm

Sir, as you are a man of principle, I hope you will apply the same principles to us that you hold dear for yourself. Many time you have praised US, that it went after Soviets to end the scourge of that evil doctrine of communism. You praise them for fighting hot and cold wars all around the globe to end communism. Please explain to me why only Americans have all the fun? Why can`t we have our McCarthy to persecute Quadianis? Why can`t we put them in concentration camps like they did to Japanese and Muslims? Why can`t we force them to leave the country for fear of persecution like Americans forced thousands of Muslims who fled to Canada and elsewhere for fear of persecution. Why cant we have our Gitmo and Abu Ghariab? I also want to put hoods on Quadiani heads. Even Hindus are having fun. Why can`t I have my pogrom too?

`Most cases result in one or the other compromise, thus allowing murderers to go free, even though Pakistani law does not contain any provision which allows the offence of murder to be mitigated. Contrary to common belief, Islam also explicitly forbids such killing in the name of ghairat or honour.`
My dear Beena, Sharia allows to lynch even a disobedient woman as per Hadees` of Sunnan Abudawud reproduced hereunder : -
Book 38, Number 4348:
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

---

Book 38, Number 4403:
Narrated Ubadah ibn as-Samit:

The people said to Sa`d ibn Ubadah: AbuThabit, the prescribed punishments have been revealed: if you find a man with your wife, what will you do?

He said: I shall strike them with a sword so much that they become silent (i.e. die). Should I go and gather four witnesses? Until that (time) the need would be fulfilled.

So they went away and gathered with the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! did you not see AbuThabit. He said so-and-so.

The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: The sword is a sufficient witness. He then said: No, no, a furious and a jealous man may follow this course.

---

So please don`t open this Pandora`s Box. Men have been warned in Quranic to be careful about their women whom they fear to be rebllious as they may use their weapon of sex to incite their paramour to murder the husband and then get it compounded or simply cover it as a dacoity. In this Connection please see verse 34 of Sura Nissa as below: -

``Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding the secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those, from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them (punish them severely). Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great``. (Translation by Pickthal)

``Quadiani fitna will be crushed and expelled from all Muslim lands unless they stop calling themselves Muslims.``........... now we have seen the true face of evil

Sattar

I hope by now you know what is meant by yanking the chain. I also hope you`ve learned something today from the best in the business.

Urstruly,

More regarding your post #17 …

Ahamdis have lived in Pakistan for ages … like other Pakistanis. Persecuting them and giving them a choice to leave … is beneath dignity (at least my dignity, obviously not yours). To make it easier for you to grasp … it is a bit like the Israeli government pushing out Palestinians further … and letting them live in the name of compassion. Got it?

You, on the other hand, stood in long lines at the US embassy, diligently submitted your paper work to the visa officer, and grinned sheepishly as he scornfully glanced at your unwashed, filthy attire, your unkempt shar’aie beard, your smelly presence ... You were ecstatic when he took pity on you and stamped your passport … and submissively joined the long line at the immigration post at an east coast airport … beyond which you could openly start bashing the USA.

This is the same white man … and the institution … you blame for ravaging your women and your nation. But you conveniently sold out your sisters and your people … in return for USD paychecks and a 401k plan. A few thousand dollars! Is this what your sisters and your nation worth to you? What a pity …

++++++++++++++++++++

Naqshbandi MiaN …

Problem is that your “Islamic jurisprudence” demands killing people who are innocent in the first place. How else can one explain ... stoning to death a woman for adultery … executing a Hindu for preaching … killing a person for leaving Islam?

What compassion? You are unable to deliver plain ol’ justice first! Justice and civility come way before you can start lecturing others on compassion.

#18 by jang

WTF? i think FSC in pakistan kicks ass?

hamidm

Like I said ``In a pathologically mad frenzy to berate Islam .....``; but unfortunately your original assessment of me is correct.

Sattar

Quadiani fitna will be crushed and expelled from all Muslim lands unless they stop calling themselves Muslims. I don`t see a future for them other than that like of Bi`hais. I beleive that an agressive and concentrated effort at Islamic teachings and preaching will show you people the light. My compassion only goes that far.

urstruly,

...... sorry, i didn`t know that you were simply calling for tort reform , limits on punitive damages, penalties for filing frivolous law suits and abolition of capital punishment because it is simply barbaric ................ if that is the case then i, along with millions of americans and george w bush, am with you ..........

.......... for a minute there i thought you belonged to the crazy and bloody islamic brotherhood that calls for establishing the khilafat in washington and is given to flying planes into tall buildings ....... sorry, again, for the misunderstanding .......