Welcome to Reality, My Friend!

nasah:
So, should I start looking for the `house for sale` signs?:)

thanks friends (Umair, Harimau, dost mitter and Feroz) for your valuable informations --

Canada looks like a laidback Shangrila of tolerance and inclusiveness, coolheadedness and progressive intellectualism -- without delusions of imperial grandeur with hallucinations of world domination -- and killer do-gooderness --

after reading the horrifying ordeals of bhai dost-mitter`s Pitaji and family -- if I do I would like to settle in Ottawa as a neighbor of dost-mitter ji -- we have a lot to share with each other as the two faces of the same coin of experience -- (mine is nothing compared to dostmitter sahib) -- now I know why I felt an instant kinship with mitter ji.......

re: nasah

I am partial to Ottawa having lived there. It has a sleepy feel to it and like a bureaucratic captial is rather dull, but is a beautiful city with a charm. I used to play cricket in the grounds of the Governor-General`s mansions while in high school and once I saw the Philosopher-King playing there also.

If you want my honest recommendation, I would pick Montreal. The girls in Montreal are incomparable. Let me say this way; if you see 10 girls, normally 2-3 out of them would be an ``8`` or even a ``9``. In Montreal, out the ten girls you will see, 8-9 will be easily a ``9``! Please do not ask me for an emperical verfication of this sample...lol

Toronto is like any other American city, but only cleaner and with less crime.

Vancover is a beautiful city, but too British for my tastes.

I have lived in both Canada and United States and if I had to raise a family, it would be Canada due to its quality of living standards over America. If I ever move back to North America, it will be Canada, where I intend to settke and that too in Ottawa!

(I am from a bureaucratic family and you can take me out of bureaucracy but you cannot take the bureaucrat out of me! I think, Dost-Mittarji will understand what I am talking about! :) )

Ciao

nasah:
This might help you bhaijaan:
I am just coming after attending a Diwali function. The function was held at Canada`s parliament house and was arranged by an Indo-Canadian MP. Our Prime Minister was the chief guest and others who came to offer Diwali greetings included the leaders of all opposition parties, including the Quebec separatist party....even the high commissioners of Pakistan and Bangladesh were there.
Need more? We have similar celebrations for Eid and Baisakhi at the same venue and they are all open to the public, including free entertainment (bharat natyam, folk dances, etc.) and free Indian snacks.
....and this can happen only in Ottawa. And of course there is always that tea and other `buri shais` promised to you by others.

harimou:
Yes, it is the Rideau Canal. And fyi, we also have a hindustani sangeet mandal and a south indian cultural association. Since we are too small to afford the really big artists, we get the opportunity to hear the up and coming artists all the time. Last Sunday, it was Hemang Mehta and last month, it was Ulhas Kalashkar.
Need I say more?

Ref dost-mittar #25

[harimou:
I bet you haven`t visited Ottawa in more than a decade.]

My entire post was tongue-in-cheek though it was based on facts. Yes, you are right, I haven`t had the opportunity to visit Ottawa in a while now. The earthquake the last time I was there scared me off.

[It has a dozen superb museums and galleries, a very active national arts center,..]

True.

[... the longest skating rink in the world (listed in the book `1000 places to see before you die`...]

Would that be the Rideau Canal?

[...and more than 25 restaurants where you can eat masala-dosa, bhatoore-chhole, bhel-poori and butter chicken.]

And you are studiously avoiding that occasional beer with you!

[And we also have a delicacy that you do not get anywhere else in the world - beaver tail which btw has nothing to do with either beaver or its tail!]

In Texas, beaver means only one thing and tail is practically synonymous with that! Delicacy forbids me to say more!

nasah #7: ``what a sophisticated civilized country! -- bhai dost-mitter sahib and Umair sahib -- please give us some idea where to settle in Canada -- Vancouver -- Montreal -- Ottawa or Quebec...``

I haven`t lived in Canada for as long as DM. But here are my views.

Canada is easily the best country I have lived in (the countries I have lived in so far are Pakistan, Middle East, USA and Canada). In the current situation, it is specifically good for two groups of people, wanting to move outside their countries of birth (or immigration): Muslims (specifically from Pakistan), and those of Liberal view (Howard Dean followers).

As for cities:

- Vancouver: Best city to live in the world, according to UN, two years in a row (this year it was second to Zurich). Most beautiful city, I have ever seen. Known for the prettiest girls in North America, according to various magazines (home of Pamela Anderson?). Two beautiful university campuses. Large Chapta and pretty large Desi community. Governor was Indian at one time.

- Montreal: Most liberal city in North America. Fanatically french-speaking. 25th best city to live in the world, according to UN. Cold as hell, in winter. Beautiful downtown, with European-style cafes. It is said that Montreal, in the summer is the most beautiful downtown/city in the world. And Montreal is Paris with nicer people. Surprisingly, an ok-sized desi population. Only place I have seen where girls sunbath on the sidewalk and patios, almost in the middle of the street.

- Toronto: Should be taken over by desis and chaptas shortly. 18th best city to live in the world, according to UN. Safest large city in North America. Most multi-cultural city in the world. Most organized large city in NA, according to UN. Sixth biggest city in North America. One of the fashion, movie and financial capitals of the world. 5 out of the 8 Federal Assembly seats in suburbs of Mississauga and Brampton controlled by Punjabis. Pakistanis turning into somewhat of a small political force, here, soon.

Ottowa: 2nd coldest capital in the world. 25th best city to live in the world. Surrouding area cosidered Silicon Valley of Canada. Conveniently located between Toronto and Montreal. Relatively boring place (unless Dost-mittar can invite you for a cup of coffee and take you ice-skating).

Calgary: Never been there. Cleanest city in the world, according to UN. Apparently the province it is a part of getting rich very quickly, due to oil revenues. Lowest taxes. And a lot of jobs.

all of canadian civilization is within 100 miles of the us border..such a vast country, and an indian health minister BTW vancouver has the higherst concentration of heroine addicts (free clean needles offcourse) on its skid-row

harimou:
I bet you haven`t visited Ottawa in more than a decade. It has a dozen superb museums and galleries, a very active national arts center, the longest skating rink in the world (listed in the book `1000 places to see before you die` and more than 25 restaurants where you can eat masala-dosa, bhatoore-chhole, bhel-poori and butter chicken. And we also have a delicacy that you do not get anywhere else in the world - beaver tail which btw has nothing to do with either beaver or its tail!
...and still enjoy the relaxed charm of a sleepy town.

Ref nasah #23

[what a sophisticated civilized country! -- bhai dost-mitter sahib and Umair sahib -- please give us some idea where to settle in Canada -- Vancouver -- Montreal -- Ottawa or Quebec...]

For nice weather, Vancouver (can you say ``ice-free port``?)

For European flair Montreal.

For French provincialism Quebec.

For a sleepy time and an occasional beer with Dost-Mittarji Ottawa.

I notice that you wisely left out Toronto. It is the place to be if you want string hoppers, masala dosa, aloo chole, nihari, etc., and put Mrs. Hasan inside a black burqa.

``1. Canada has universal public health care.

2. Canada has no troops in Iraq.

3. Canada signed the Kyoto Protocol environmental treaty.

4. More than half of Canada`s provinces allow same-sex marriage.

5. The Canadian Senate recommends legalizing marijuana.

6. Canada has no law restricting abortion.

7. Canada has strict gun laws and relatively little violence.

8. The United Nations has ranked Canada the best country to live in for eight consecutive years.

9. Canada abolished the death penalty in 1976.

10. Canada has not run a federal deficit since 1996-97. ``(Romair)

what a sophisticated civilized country! -- bhai dost-mitter sahib and Umair sahib -- please give us some idea where to settle in Canada -- Vancouver -- Montreal -- Ottawa or Quebec...

dost-mittar #21: ``People seem to take politics in a personal way; so many americans are talking about leaving the US and coming to Canada.``

I had a feeling this was going to happen, around four or so years ago. I didn`t realize it would be so intense, however. I thought it would be limited to certain immigrant groups.

Following is from CNN:

``Canadians open arms to Americans
Monday, November 15, 2004

SEATTLE, Washington (AP) -- Rudi Kischer wants to help those Americans who have the post-election blues after U.S. President George W. Bush`s second-term victory.

The Vancouver, British Columbia, immigration lawyer plans seminars in three U.S. cities -- Seattle, San Francisco and Los Angeles -- to tell Americans frustrated with Bush`s re-election that the grass is greener north of the border.

And that`s not just an allusion to Canada`s lenient marijuana laws.

``We started last year getting a lot of calls from Americans dissatisfied with the way the country is going,`` Kischer says. ``Then after the election, it`s been crazy up here. The Canadian immigration Web site had 115,000 hits the day after the election -- from the U.S. alone. We usually only get 20,000 hits.``

There was so much interest that a Vancouver-based Internet company, Communicopia, set up a new Web site this month -- www.canadianalternative.com -- to suggest Canada as a viable option for its American clients, including anyone concerned about constitutional bans on gay marriage passed in 11 U.S. states this month....l.

Another Web site urges Canadians: ``Open your heart, and your home. Marry an American. Legions of Canadians have already pledged to sacrifice their singlehood to save our southern neighbours from four more years of cowboy conservatism.``

Canada suddenly has utopian appeal for many left-leaning Americans. Its universal health care, gay rights, abortion rights, gun-control laws, drug laws, opposition to the Iraq war, ban on capital punishment and ethnic diversity mirror many values of the American left.

Immigrants, including an estimated 1 million Americans, make up nearly 20 percent of Canada`s population. The United Nations named Toronto the world`s most multicultural city......

``I just like their way of life a lot better, and with everything the Bush administration has done -- for the American people to give him their seal of approval, it`s basically the last straw,`` says Ralph Appoldt, a resident of Portland, in Oregon, a state that narrowly supported Democrat John Kerry for president.

``Canada`s basic population is much more intelligent, polite and civilized,``Appoldt said. ``I like their way of government a lot better. Their tax dollars go to helping those who need it, instead of funneling money back up to the wealthy and feeding this huge military-industrial machine.``

Appoldt, 50, a sales manager, and his wife, a nurse, figure that selling their house and getting their immigration approved could take more than a year. But they`re moving, they insist. They`ve already hired Kischer to help them......

Nancy Bray, a spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Canada, said her agency`s Web site received 261,000 hits from the United States in the two days following the election, but it`ll be many months before officials can guess how many of them were serious.``

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/11/15/canadian.welcome.ap/index.html

WHY MOVE TO CANADA?

Reasons to move to Canada, as cited by www.canadianalternative.com:

1. Canada has universal public health care.

2. Canada has no troops in Iraq.

3. Canada signed the Kyoto Protocol environmental treaty.

4. More than half of Canada`s provinces allow same-sex marriage.

5. The Canadian Senate recommends legalizing marijuana.

6. Canada has no law restricting abortion.

7. Canada has strict gun laws and relatively little violence.

8. The United Nations has ranked Canada the best country to live in for eight consecutive years.

9. Canada abolished the death penalty in 1976.

10. Canada has not run a federal deficit since 1996-97.

I am sure that the Democrats will do whatever is needed to sail their boat to the prevailing winds, that`s what mainstream politics is all about.
An equally important question, however, is whether the american society will be able to overcome the polarisation that has so bitterly divided the country into two opposing camps. My friend nasah`s posts show the kind of bitterness that has engulfed the society. I have never seen the american society so bitterly divided, and that too on moral grounds. Even the Canadians discussed the US election with more passion than they did their own elections held earlier this year.
The American society has been divided before. It was divided during the Vietnam war but it was over the issue of participation in the war and not centred around the personality of Lyndon Johnson although he chose to withdraw in face of the opposition. At the opposite end, the country was divided again over Nixon and Watergate but it was over the personality of the President and not along partisan lines.
Now, the lightning rod is both President Bush and moral issues as well as the Iraq war. People seem to take politics in a personal way; so many americans are talking about leaving the US and coming to Canada. Even though the number of Americans who eventually leave the country is likely to be a trickle and not a flood, the very fact that people have taken politics so personally seems to me a bit unhealthy.
Maybe, they should learn from Indians about electronic voting machines and how to change political parties at the drop of a hat or a few rupees:-)

A certain Mr. James Earl Carter characterized himself as a ``lay priest``, spoke of morality and moral values, and went on to screw up the rest of the world through blatant interventionist policies.

Moral values. Defence of freedom, human dignity, blah, blah, blah . . .

One of the major planks of the Eisenhower campaign was to ``restore decency to the White House.``

John Fitzgerald Kennedy, raised on and financed by the illicit income of bootlegging, spouted moral aphorisms and brought the world to the brink of nuclear war . . .

Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, all were men of morals, all spouted morality, and each contributed hasbe tawfeeq to the miseries of the world in the name of God and country . . .

Their country . . .

So, whether its semantics, whether it is conviction and commitment, whether it is lack of genuine choice and alternatives, the United States have voted George W. Bush into his second term as president . . . that is the reality the world has to face for the next four years at least . . .

The question before the world right now isn`t how did this stinking situation come about, the question for sane minds is, how best to survive the next four years sustaining the least possible damage . . .

Because damage there will be, whether you like it or not . . .


Wa ma ilaynaa ill al balaagh al mubeen

Siddiqua Haqnawaa

re: nasah # 18

I think that would be a fair assessment! :) lol

re: PM # 17

PM, in your own words, what do the democrats represent? In fact, what do the republicans represent?

In my opinion, they both represent the interests of corporate America and the rest, as you have said, is all semantics.

Ciao

Family struggles with suicide of Marine after return from Iraq
Adam Gorlick
Associated Press
Published November 13, 2004

BELCHERTOWN, Mass. - Jeffrey Lucey was just an ordinary kid from small-town America. He grew up loving his parents, his high school sweetheart and backyard ballgames in this quiet, picturesque community bordering the Quabbin Reservoir.

Even his decision to enlist in the Marine Reserves - two years before the burst of patriotism following the 2001 terrorist attacks - was run-of-the-mill.

``He just wanted to prove he could cut it,`` his mother, Joyce Lucey, said.

But when Jeff returned to his parents` home in July 2003 after serving six months in Iraq as a truck driver, there was nothing ordinary left about him.

He started drinking too much. He became withdrawn, depressed and distant.

In June, after what his parents describe as months of mental and emotional torment, the lance corporal went down to the basement and hanged himself.

He was 23.

Just a few feet from where his father, Kevin, found him with a garden hose wrapped around his neck, Jeff had arranged a semicircle of family photos on the floor. The note he left said he could no longer deal with his emotional pain.

Upstairs, a pair of dog tags rested on his bed. His Marine-issue boots stood next to them.

Now, five months after his suicide, the Luceys are trying to make sense of how Jeff unraveled.

Shaun Lamory, one of Jeff`s friends since high school, figures it this way: ``He was always the happiest kid in the world - he was too nice. And he was put into hell. And nice people don`t go to hell.``

---

Slapping the Other Cheek
By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: November 14, 2004

You`d think the one good thing about merging church and state would be that politics would be suffused with glistening Christian sentiments like ``love thy neighbor,`` ``turn the other cheek,`` ``good will toward men,`` ``blessed be the peacemakers`` and ``judge not lest you be judged.``

Yet somehow I`m not getting a peace, charity, tolerance and forgiveness vibe from the conservatives and evangelicals who claim to have put their prodigal son back in office.

I`m getting more the feel of a vengeful mob - revved up by rectitude - running around with torches and hatchets after heathens and pagans and infidels.

One fiery Southern senator actually accused a nice Catholic columnist of having horns coming up out of her head!

Bob Jones III, president of the fundamentalist college of the same name, has written a letter to the president telling him that ``Christ has allowed you to be his servant`` so he could ``leave an imprint for righteousness,`` by appointing conservative judges and approving legislation ``defined by biblical norm.``

``In your re-election, God has graciously granted America - though she doesn`t deserve it - a reprieve from the agenda of paganism,`` Mr. Jones wrote. ``Put your agenda on the front burner and let it boil. You owe the liberals nothing. They despise you because they despise your Christ.`` Way harsh.

---

sounds familiar? -- our beloved Christian Talibans adressing their beloved Sheek Bush bin Sheek Bush.....

....interesting how a Christian `Infidel` priest calls the `Heathen` Muslim Mulla a `Pagan` -- realizing little in their demented Schizophrenic (hearing voices from God) Brains -- that they BOTH practice Paganism -- the only difference -- one dressed in a smart Armani double-breasted suite -- and the other draped in a flowing Golden Galabia.......