My Family Reunion

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Rascal politicians and their instrument of hate called TNT!!

friend:
We all have multiple identies, this is why Indians use the phrase unity in diversity. Panjabis, Bengalis, Malayalis, etc. are all proud of their regional identities; this should not cause conflict with their national, religious or any other identity.

#54 by friend

because panjabis are tall and fair-skinned (only a shade darker than pathan).

but then is not everyone proud (even the darkies?) what i find objectionable is panjabis heve hardly treated their own language well (e.g. compared to bongs/ghatis/mallus), but are ``porud`` of pajuness. so i think its nothing to do with the language but complexion, and maybe the food.

nikki our panjabi ethno-phsychologist may be able to shine some light on this, based on his field-research driving around with truckers.

DM #52,
While we are on this subject of Panjabis, why are panjabis (hindu, sikhs, muslims and jainis) - so irritatigly proud of their panjab.. Panjabi residing for generations in other part of India still call themselves as panjabis and others as hindustanis or as bhaiyaas.
And from the interacts here it appears that Pakistani panjabis are also infected by same disease.
Do you have any insights?

dost-mittar #52
I guess I was looking for an acknowledgement that groups which are majorities in the regional context need to be held responsible for people`s rights just as we hold majority Hindus responsible in the nationwide context. (I was mainly talking of the future, on the past I mostly agree with you).

In addition, IMO, the neighbourhood as a whole suffers from consequences of low expectations - such as Pakistan and Bangladesh which get a free ride from Indian pseudo-psecularists on the `beleagured minorities` count when in fact these are populous and sovereign Muslim-majority countries.

PS: I remember a past discussion with you - that Gandhiji recommended option 5 to Hindus in Pakistan, which I am very glad (on a personal level) that Hindus in Pakistan did not take.

friend:
I dont know why sadna asked that question. I am opposed to all secessionist movements, esp. those using violence and in the name of religion.

#48 by Urstruly
``And look what you are doing to us.``

i am a whiner. things get done to me by bad guys all the time. this all started when i was a young pre-pubescent guy when the village ghasiyaran seduced me by threatening me with a sickle. or was it when i was a cute 4-yr old?

All you panjabi enthusiast,

1. how many panjabi novels do you read per year?
2. how many panjabi plays are hosted at your local community center?
3. do your kids speak panjabi?
4. how many panjabi books are at your home?
5. do you think daler mehndi is hight of panjabi culture?
6. how much money do you donate to panjabi sahitya academy? do you know the name of the previous year winner?
7. what are you doing to propagate panjabi names like pappu, ginni, bunty and dolly?
8. do you read any panjabi newspaper?

my point is, true language culturist just do it. for example consider keralites, bongs or ghatis. now, they love their language, happily write in it, teach their kids, buy POETRY BOOKS in their language, stage plays and movies.. all this without voilence or threat of violence or playing the victim card (which by the way does not suit sardars at all)! so what up with this panjabi insecurity?

all the other linguistic cultures are closely associated with local rituals and festivals which are celebrated with much gusto, specially by the revivalist. kannadas have their weird ramayan plays, gujjus have their garba, bongs bore you to death with all the rabindro sangeet, and i dont know what kerala do, since they never invite anyone else. so stop whining and just do it!

DM #47
Let us leave hypothetical example at that.

About ``The Hindus of my generation did oppose gurmukhi/panjabi``.. I suspect you are mixing gurumukhi with Panjabi. People may have been hesitant in using gurumukhi. That script is associated with a religion. I am yet to see a Panjabi Hindu who does not proudly (and most of the time irritatingly) claims ``ussi panjabi sun``.


BTW you didn`t answer Sadna`s question on secession.

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DM

Jinnah, nehru, and Gandhi are dead along with the members of their generation, whereas, your generation is still at the helm and controls all the aspect of our lives with an iron grip. It is still in the process of leaving its legacy to us. And look what you are doing to us. We will pay dearly for your shortcommings for many more decades to come. You can change that if you want.

friend:
That was a hypothetical example. I do not know if the Panjabi Hindus do in fact think differently on this issue. The issues we are talking about are between Panjab and Haryana/Rajasthan, not between Panjab and India.
The Hindus of my generation did oppose gurmukhi/panjabi. If the number of panjabi hindu singers is any indication, that attitude seems to be changing for the better.

Dear Mitter Saheb
Is it possible that Panjabi Hindus` thinking may be more in line with overall national interest?

(and I am curious, impression you give is that didn`t support panjabi language and the panjab stand wrt Chandigarh and Water issue``, do you have any stats on that split?)

satyamvada:
Sorry I can only say what I feel and not what you do!

Re. Buddhism, I do not know if Buddha took a strong position on varna. I dont think that it was an issue that agitated the thinkers of that time, but you may be right.

friend:
I am not saying that All Hindus in Panjab should act as a monolith and take the same stance, or even that the Panjabi position is necessarily the correct one. The point simply is that why should Panjabi Hindus think differently from Panjabi Sikhs when they have as much stake in their state as the Sikhs do?
Let me give an example that you will probably relate to. Individual muslim Indians can disagree with the Indian position on Kashmir, just as some hindus can, but if a majority of muslims feel differently from the majority of Indians on that issue, it does create a problem for the community.

DM #39
``I think that the hindus in minority areas can best safeguard themselves by identifying themselves with the aspirations of the majority (unless that aspiration means secession). Thus, in panjab, they should support panjabi language and the panjab stand wrt Chandigarh and Water issue. ``

This is a strange expectation from ``Hindus``. My first question is, are ``hindus`` a monolithic community that is expected to act like a ``herd``. And second, will you have same expectations from ``sikhs`` or ``muslims`` that they forgo Gurumukhi or Urdu in other states.
Your point on supporting panjab`s stand on Chandigarh and water issue is totally ridiculous. Both of these are issues promoted just for the sake for raising issues. These facilities were raised with federal money. In a really federal structure where Chandigarh goes should not impact any state. Panjab is dragging its feet on water already agreed for Rajasthan. And rather than permitting a debate you expect ``hindus`` to act like a herd and subscribe to a narrow minded view.
At this time there are ``hindus`` in Panjab who prefer speaking Panjabi and those who not (Is Panjabi only language that should be spoken in Panjab? ) . There is a similar split on water.. And it should remain that way because difference in opinion should be allowed.
Kindly re-do your logic. At this time this doesn`t make any sense.

an interesting article about Bab-i-Pakistan

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_17-11-2004_pg3_1