The Poetry of Physics

Happy new year to Chowk readers, writers, inter-actors, and staff. May you see many more.

Mohammad Gill

Inquirer: response to #39

Yep, you are right about the Chinese. Prior to Communism they have been pretty much peaceful. And they will eventually return to the roots. The entire world functions on 2 basic laws. Survival of the fittest and Natural selection both at biological and civilizational level.

So natural selection will see to that anything that is Un-natural is rooted out. Thats why Christianity, Islam, Communism will eventually be sidelined. Christinaity will continue its drive without the passion due to the $$$ left in the Christianity corporation. But as the $$ gets milked out it will slowly turn into spiritual version not much different than buddism/dharmic faiths, from which Jesus Christ learnt his trade in the first place.

And if we look at the big picture the world has generally been getting more peaceful every passing century. The increase in human population and wealth spread is proof enough. Though looking at it from the micro level, it will look as if we are going through the worst of times. Besides, without the constant churning and destruction of the old and rotten nothing new will be created. Hindus(meaning Indians, since Hindu is a geographical term) were genius in recognizing this milleniums ago in the symbolisms of Shiva, Brahma and Vishnu.

So with the advent of the resurgent India and China as economic leaders, a post they both held until about 1700, things will take a positive turn. Quoting Gita,``All that happens is for the Good``

Inquirer: You may think the earth`s moon is unlivable - however, those who are in the business of space exploration (NASA and space agencies of other nations), beg to differ with you. Thus, at least two space probes have been sent over the past couple of years as I recall looking for water on the moon - and from all indications there is very likely that there is a reservoir of frozen water on the south pole of the moon. And much thought is being given to tapping into this reservoir to establish a permanent moon base.

You are also showing a lack of imagination by saying that the moon`s of other planets are unlivable. Indeed, Europa (one of Jupiter`s moons) has been shown to be covered with ice, with perhaps an ocean of liquid water underneath it (heated by the internal core of the moon, just as the earth`s core creates liquid lava) - and again, the world`s space agencies led by NASA are spending considerable effort in exploring Europa and other moons in the solar system.

EVEN if all the efforts of the space agencies of various nations prove wrong and you prove to be correct in saying that these moons are unlivable (a very unlikely thing, imho), you ignore the fact that mankind can still harness the various assets of the solar system that I listed earlier. This would be done through remote control. And the Mars robots that I mentioned earlier - not to mention vehicles like Voyager 11 that is I think already beyond the Oort cloud and thus beyond the outer reaches of the solar system itself - have already proved this to be a viable concept. Machines can go where it is unsafe to send a human, and act as extensions of the human sensory organs, muscles, brains.

The world`s scientists are already doing things that are beyond the imagination of most people, it seems.

#37,tahmed32:
I thought you were not as shallow as come out to be in these two posts. You belie your father`s objectivity as you described once to me.

I have participated in Casini-Huygens rocket safety analysis. And I do think, though am not sure, 141 moons have been identified for stars other than the sun.

Since it has been established that the Earth`s moon can not support the human population of any size since 1975, no moon of solar planets is livable. Do you know the temperature beyond Mars? The temperatures beyond Jupiter are all below -100degree celsius.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT MANNED MISSIONS WERE DISCONTINUED AFTER 1975?!!!

#35,singularity:
Thanks for the review of the analysis and question presented by me.

WE NEED TO STOP EXPECTING SCIENCE FROM RELIGION AND VICE VERSA. ALL RELIGIONS WERE THOUGHT UP BY HUMANS AND DESIGNED BY HUMANS LESSER THAN THE THE ORIGINATORS. THIS HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED BY all religions EXCEPT ISLAM.

As for the comparison between Indians and Chinese, both have the documented record of living in peace and letting others do the same except the Communist regime which wants to emulate the Christian West. This in stark contrast to the records of the Sunnis as well as Shias including Hazarat Mohammad. The only minor exceptions have been the Sufis and the Ahmeddiyas (Physicist Abdus Salam was one. Nehru had invited him to India and I heard him say that he would return to United India. He died totally abandoned and denigrated in Pakistan - he returned to not to Pakistan but his village - as has been documented in Chowk discussions). Shias and Sunnis do not even recognize them as belonging to Islam Widespread illiteracy and dire poverty are the causes which sustain Islam in this totally ridiculous stance. They, most of the Islamics, are characterized by the story I gave in #30. At least in Pakistan under Musharraf there is a Human Rights Commission. Other Muslim countries do not even report such instances.

Inquirer: I think, my friend, that you dont read too well either. I never said anything about colonizing the stars. Go back and read what I wrote, THEN pass judgement or offer comments.

Inquirer: further to my previous post, I was referring to the 141 moons WITHIN the solar system identified todate. NOT to planets on OTHER stars. Even as I write this we have the Cassini-Huygens spacecraft examining Saturn and its moon Titan up close. This is not mere purposeless investigation, but with a long term view of space colonization.

The problem is not spacecraft speeds, but ignorance of what is commonplace knowledge today on your part.

Inquirer: Response to #34

That was thorough analysis. Obviously having a physics background helped you to call the bluff. I simply cant comprehend how and why a highly educated, otherwise very analytical muslim, looses all sense of reason to go to any extent to prove that Koran contains answers to all questionsin the Universe. I think they inherently know that Islam is very weak coz all we need to do is to prove that Mohamad is Human and Islamic beliefs collapses. Same applies to Christianity. Both are dependent on the IL-Logical and Un-sound beliefs about GOD sending Prophets to Earth. That is very very thin on facts and is very `Un-natural`. That is the Achilles heel.

The advantage of Dharmic(Indic) or confucian/taoist beliefs is that they are more grounded and is not dependent on any UN-NATURAL beliefs or one single man. So thats the reason why both Christianity and Islam failed to make any Impact in India and China. Especially in India coz the Hindus though subjected to close to 800 years of foreign rule,halted the march of Islam and Christianity and defeated them once and for all. I doubt the chinese would have done it if they had been exposed to barbaric invaders for such a long time. The Chinese were lucky to be secluded for so long.

Though the Muslim mullahs and Missionaries alike claim that Dharmic faith is weak, anybody who engaged in a slightly deeper study will come out with the opposite fact . They were beaten so badly and this defeat literally halted their sweep of the Earth between themselves. Now the tiding is changed so much that there is no turning the clock back. Now as information age dawns the power of the Church and Mullahs will decline dramatically bringing a closure to the Conversion drives. The church will continue the drive as long as it continues to make a profit and there are millions dependent on the $$ coming out of the Christianity Corporation. But the writing is on the wall.

Thanks.

#17,urstruly: Also singularity and malik99 to note.
Your derivation of speed of light is given below:

``[Quran 32.5] (Allah) Rules the cosmic affair from the heavens to the Earth. Then this affair travels to Him a distance in one day, at a measure of one thousand years of what you count.

It is the angels who carryout this ‘cosmic affair’. Hence in 1 day, the angels (who travel at the speed of light) will travel a distance of 1000 years of what they counted . Obviously they counted lunar years (see Arabic wording at footnote [1]). So Allah is saying that angels travels in one day the same distance that the moon travels in 1000 lunar years, that is, 12000 lunar orbits (1000 years x 12 orbits/year).``

****Note above the statement:``Obviously they counted lunar years (see Arabic wording at footnote [1])``. the note [1] is given below.****

[1]The Arabic word ``Araj`` means a man with a lame leg. In this verse, the Quran specifically uses it`s verb ``Yaruj`` which simply means a man walking on a lame leg. The Quran is describing the lame steps of this `cosmic affair` and literally says that it is `at a measure of one thousand years of what you count`. And since this verse is describing something quantitative and emphasizing the lame steps then it has to be pointing to the distance. The distance is the only thing quantitative in this case.

****WHERE IN THE NOTE ABOVE NOTE[1] IS THE LENGTH OF LUNER ORBIT DERIVABLE? IN ORDER TO DERIVE THE SAME DISTANCE FOR LUNAR TRAVEL YOU NEED TO SPECIFY THE RADIUS OF THE LUNAR ORBIT. PLEASE POINT OUT WHERE IS THE VALUE OF LUNAR ORBIT IS SPECIFIED??????

IF YOU CANNOT THEN WHOLE OF THE QUOTED ANALYSIS IS A FIB.



About this Preserved Tablet:

[Quran 85.21-22] But it is a Glorious Quran. 22 Inscribed on a Preserved Tablet.

Moslems believe that Archangel Gabriel got the Quran to their prophet from this Preserved Tablet:

[Quran 15.8-11] We only send down the angels in Truth; if they were not (in truth), no respite would they have 9 We have sent down the Message; and We will preserve it 10 We did send Messengers before you among the religious sects of the old 11 But never came a Messenger to them but they mocked him.

The Quran and all the instructions to all angels are inscribed on this Preserved Tablet. The angels were originally made of light, and the speed at which they commute to and from this Tablet turned out to be the known speed of light.

#31,tahmed32:
Suffices it to say that for me you ARE a young man!
We know the situations about the planets in our solar system. They are unlivable.
The nearest star from earth other than our sun is 4 light years away. So much for the other 141 planets!!!!!!!!!!
Our rockets travel at the speed of less than 30,000miles/hr. When do you estimate will we reach the speeds of 100,000 miles/hr?!

Malik99: Response to #11

Well, Check UrsTruly`s response #16 which proves my point that Somehow Koran should talk about Relativity and Quantum Physics etc. When even a glimpse of koran suggests that it was not even considering any attempts at science. It is not even close. Yet, people SOMEHOW interpret it to mean what they want it to mean. What does that say?

Also, it is disappointing that such intelligent young chaps like Fitaa who analyzes everything very well and critically evaluates theoretical physics, fails to do the same with respect to Mohamad and Koran. What gives? Why are they not applying the same set of analytical and critical evaluation of koran and Mohamad. Obviously, Mohamad and Koran is ``holier than thou`` and cant be put to the same critical analysis, coz it wont come out unscathed. And that will Expose Islam to be nothing more than Tribal Arab Imperialism imposed on everybody else in the garb of God.

Mohamad exhibits classic case of Paranoid Megalomania, very similar to Hitler. Yet muslims consider Mohamad to be Prophet and Hitler to be evil. Why so? Coz we have the luxury of Psychiatrists and easy communication today. But the tribal arabs didn`t have psychaitrists or asylums then.

That is my point. Critical analysis of every historical figure will bring to light the fact about all prophets being HUMAN and nothing more. That will also bring down the NON-muslims are satan/evil BS which is the fundamental reason behind a lot of tensions in the world. That will bring down the colossus called Islam coz it can no longer protect itself against sustained critical evaluation and can no longer sustain the BRUTAL Conversion drives.

That is why Information wave will make sure Dogmas will be sidelined and more spiritual all inclusive faiths will emerge out. That will be the day when 2 major virus,christianity and Islam, both of which has destroyed many millions of lives and destroyed in-numerable cultures, will be made to rest their il-logical dogmas.

So lets all look forward to that day.

Inquirer: I am much older than you, I am sure. I am 54. How old are YOU, young man?? And why is age so important to you??

While colonization of the solar system may appear a pipe dream to you - all you have to do is read the newspaper (other than the local news about all the bad things happening in Pakistan that you Indians seem so obsessed with pointing out as in case of your posts to Fitaa below). If you read the newspaper (other than local news, of course) you will find that even as you read this, there are two robotic explorers on Mars already - studying the geology as precursor to future space landings (rest assured that the US would not spend billions studying the geology of Mars simply for academic purposes).

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#26,Fitaa:
``Religion cannot be changed and Science does change on logic and experiment. Call this the beauty of science or the beauty of religion but this also implies religion cannot be based on science.``
****Your first sentence merely shows the subservience of West Asian Intellectual movements to the Mullah-King combine that has controlled the region since Mohammad. I agree that Islam as enunciated at the early times provided a rational backdrop to the sociological roots of the society but its tunnel vision in all other areas completely destroyed the scientific spirit in the region which had developed well prior to the conversion-by-sword frenzy that began with Hazrat and his followers. They are well known and documented invaders of all other societies (This may now be expressing as Wahaabism and other terroristic movements glorifying suicide now.).

As for founding religion on science, I believe you are right. Religions are a set of arbitrary rules developed for the benefit of select groups in all societies. This has been well established. Science on the other hand is an objective body of thought - defined by independence on and freedom of domination by the formulators of science. Also, it is repeatable on will by all. Science and religion are inherently contradictory except for those who know neither religion nor science.

#26, tahmed32:
How old are you, young man?! I wish you well for expressing the indomitable but currently quixotic optimism about the ability of humans and scientific innovations. But what do you say to Fitaa and followers who would be so disappointed to find no Allah outside the Earth ruled by him (excuse me for not using the capital H)?
I SHARE YOUR AWE!

Fitaa:
Here is the beauty of religion!

In the small village of Meerwala in Pakistan, Mukhtaran Bibi survived a horror few can imagine. Two years ago, the 28-year-old woman was gang-raped as ``punishment`` meted out by a local tribal council (jirga) in retaliation for her teenage brother`s alleged affair with a woman from another tribe. The story has its roots in the centuries-old conflict between Mukhtaran’s tribe, the Gujjar, and the higher-caste Mastoi tribe.
Although Mukhtaran’s family’s offered to settle the matter peacefully, the Mastoi called for revenge–the violation of a Gujjar woman. The jury, dominated by Mastoi elders, selected Mukhtaran. She was dragged to a hut and raped at gunpoint by four Mastoi men. Armed guards prevented her family from saving her.

Hours later, the girl was forced to walk home covered only by a torn shirt, jeered at by villagers. Her brother was released from jail; the accusation against him had been withdrawn.

The charge against the boy was later found to be false, and Mukhtaran said that in fact her brother had been sodomized by Mastoi tribesmen who then fabricated the story of the boy’s crime.

Instead of killing herself as tradition demanded, Mukhtaran reported the rape to the police. An imam, outraged by the rape, asked a local reporter to talk to her, and her story was soon picked up by the national and international media.

Today, several of the rapists are on death row, and others on the tribal council face prison sentences.

President Pervez Musharraf presented Mukhtaran with about $8,300 as compensation. Rather than take the money and leave her village, Mukhtaran used the funds to build two schools, one for girls and one for boys. (Although a lack of the funds promised by the Pakistani government threatened to close the schools, an article in the New York Times by columnist Nicholas Kristof reportedly garnered $90,000 in donations.)

According to the Pakistan Human Rights Commission, Mukhtaran was one of hundreds of women raped or gang-raped in Pakistan each year. Most of those crimes go unreported and unpunished. Mukhtaran’s rare courage in speaking out and her determination to stay and help others have shed light on a critical human rights issue.

Inquirer: While it is true that earth is all we have AT THIS TIME, given time (a few decades) and barring a catastrophe, there is no question that mankind will start colonizing other heavenly bodies in the solar system - not just the 9 planets (some of them containing more matter than thousands of earth sized objects), but the 141 moons identified to date (some comparable in size to the earth), the over 700,000 objects over 1 kilometer in diameter in the asteroid belt that circle the sun outside of the orbit of mars, as well as the large number of objects in the Kuiper belt outside Plato`s orbit, AND the large number of objects in the Oort Cloud that are on the fringes of the solar system and are in fact close enough to be affected by the gravitation of nearyby stars and last but not least, the vast energy tossed out by the sub itself in the form of the solar wind (travelling at close to the speed of light)!!

And all this is within our physical grasp (as opposed to sensory reach, made possible by telescopes of all kinds plus some brilliant reasoning by many, many dedicated people who are the unsung heroes of the human race) with linear improvements to today`s technology.

What lies beyond - given advancements into other dimensions (and such advancements are even now being conceived at the heels of scientific advancements based on the string theory) - is beyond our imagination. And even that may one day be within our physical reach (including the multiple dimensions envisioned by the M-theory). But try as we might, it is hard to imagine mankind ever making a dent even the known universe, or even in galaxy sized objects like the eagle nebula pictured below.