Chasing bloodhounds ... Lest we Forget

Re: # 81

Aah, well..then that makes it all right then. Damn those Japs.

salim:

The babri masjid was not demolished by faizabadis or ayodhyavasis; the vanguard was shiv-sainiks. The riots took place in Maharashtra because violent muslim demonstrations against the demolition took place in Bombay and the shivsena goons took it from there. Riots in Gujarat, as you know, took place because Godhra is in Gujarat (as was Modi!).

#91 having lived in mumbai, i think you (and perhaps DM) are reaching a wrong conclusion...nothing to do with ghati religiosity. the post-ayodhya riots happened in mumbai, and not much in rest of maharashtra. there is an arjun post which shows the genesis. OTOH many a riots have happend in the past in UP but never in mumbai. also, mumbai riots had a lot to do with land-grabbing bulilder mafia burning each others (encroached) godowns, i was visiting there and i witnessed this first-hand.

DM Sahib #87, {``The never-ending aarti where you have to keep standing all the time was in sanskrit or marathi or a combination of the two. I must say that Maharashtrians are a lot more earnest about their religion than us northies.``}

DM Sahib,
Isn`t it ironic that the destruction of the Babri Masjid occurred in Ayodhya, near Faizabad, UP, but most of the violence and butchery took place in Gujarat and Maharashtra. Just an observation.

maha-arti was what ss considered as their answer to jumma qutba. often the crowds spill-over the streets and block traffic.

anyhoo, the maha-artis were very temporary..may be less than 10 in total. friday sermons are an institution.

a more interesting incident happened when laloo took over as rail-minister. mumbai gujjus often start some bhajan when they board the crowded commuter trains..this has gone on for ages. laloo, in his secular spirit, banned it by issuing a Fatwa. SS were very happy to defy the ban .. even the ghatis started doing the bhajans. then laloo took revenge. when time came to fill linemen positions, he brought men from bihar at railways expense to fill these. SS goons beat up a few ..but the biharis were hired anyways..one reason offcourse was that there were few local takers.

bottomline, in mumbai, SS provides for a lot of news.

#87 by dost-mittar on September 23, 2005 7:55am PT


I thought that it was worse, something of a ritual to convert a crowd into a hysterical mob.
Yes, it was that siddhivinayak temple.


that was the aarti inside the temple...went on for about 30 mins I think..that probably happens even now..that`s got nothing to do with the maha-aarti(which was the use of an aarti as an excuse to gather a crowd)..

the goon squad`s maha aarti was mostly outside..on the road and meant to be a show of force...most of the rioting was by the goon squad returning from the aarti..

Most of you have elaborated at length on the various forms of mass abuse. All I would like to add is that they fall under the purview of political carnages where the Establishment turns from Protector to Predator.
- - -

a very important point indeed. . . .

i was also thinking about what jangi was referring to as vilification of a society. i was thinking about vilification not in terms of a cause but part of the process itself, the propaganda phase. one can see this very clearly in the dramatization of the rwandan genocide as presented in hotel rwanda where the genocidal process began not with the horrific massacres, but in the propaganda phase: the reduction of the tutsi to cockroaches that emanated from the government-run (?) radio stations. such vilifying propaganda was also produced in the beginning stages of the holocaust.

vilification of groups of people should not be so easily dismissed as ``just plain old politics`` or something that`s part of the culture or something like that, regardless of whether it is the establishment that is the predator or not.

#80:
Dear Farzana:

Yes, you took it in the right spirit. You could win more converts to your perspective with a less confrontational style. But don`t do it! Chowk would be a duller place then!
Baqi rahi baat ``sathiyaane``, abhi tau mashallah aapke ``abhi tau main jawaan hoon`` vale din hain!

arjun_m:

``It`s an aarti by the ss goon squad trying to outdo the muslims in creating a public nuisance on the public road...``

I thought that it was worse, something of a ritual to convert a crowd into a hysterical mob.
Yes, it was that siddhivinayak temple. The never-ending aarti where you have to keep standing all the time was in sanskrit or marathi or a combination of the two. I must say that Maharashtrians are a lot more earnest about their religion than us northies.

#76 by dost-mittar on September 22, 2005 4:24pm PT


What is mahaaarti? Is it a hindu equivalent of ``allahu akbar`` and ``bole so nihaal``?


It`s maha aarti... It`s an aarti by the ss goon squad trying to outdo the muslims in creating a public nuisance on the public road...


It couldn`t be something like I watched at the vinayak temple in Mumbai.


you mean the siddhivinayak temple, right? i`ve been to that one...took my aunt from out of town there..on a tuesday too..

Good read F, we need persons like Wiesenthal who can pursue the genocides in our country and ensure that the full nakedness of the Indian fascists gets exposed .........we have far too many genocidal maniacs in every community and religion who have commited such genocides........it is time we should not let the task of investigation and collection of evidences be handled by the police or politicians......we have to do the work of collection of information and such evidences on our own like Wiesenthal............only then the Indian fascists can be exposed to the world and brought to the justice.............

Dear Farzana

Ref#80
On a lighter note...shaayad hum satthiya gaye hai!

I reckon Ghalib has said it very well

Maara zamanay ne Asadullah Khan tumhain
Vo val-valay kahan vo jawani kidhar gayee

arjun,
Thanks for the poll numbers. People tend to forget that most New York Jews tend to be liberal.

vivek...you are absolutely right...



Search antiwar.com via google for a poll which says jewish americans are disproportionately against the war in Iraq..the war most muslims think is for Israel....

burpinder,
A lot about Jewish power in the USA is hyped BS made by others. The fact is and any poll in the USA would show it - that the majority of Americans support a pro-Israeli policy. Support for Israel comes from both the conservatives as well as the liberals. That is the main reason for USA`s middle east policy.

As for Hiroshima, well as wrong as it was the Japs themselves don`t want to make an issue of it. Most Japanese when asked about Hiroshima tend to either not say anything or just say unfortunate, but it never brings anti-US feeling in them.

Thank you to those who have read this piece. And for the poem (Beej) using this as a starting point. Some people are inspiring...like Wiesenthal...

I cannot complain about the direction this board has taken, for there is just this much you can say about Simon Wiesenthal; besides, there is a great deal of material available on the Net. When I wrote it this was not available and I was making notes, and yes the Dachau experience was disturbing.

I have read the interacts and I do think analogies have their validity, although definitions may differ. Most of you have elaborated at length on the various forms of mass abuse. All I would like to add is that they fall under the purview of political carnages where the Establishment turns from Protector to Predator.
- - -

Dear dost-mittarji:

[BTW, your articles reproduced from other sources seem to have a different tone and tenor than those written for chowk. They seem to be more persuasive and less provocative and angst-ridden than those written for chowk.]

I know your comment was well-intentioned, unlike the swipe at not being able to flaunt Islamic victimhood...the few articles that I have reproduced here from elsewhere have to do with gender issues or are interviews where I see myself as the `medium`. Incidentally, the first piece of mine that someone submitted to Chowk was first published in a newspaper and the second one (which was my first submission) was meant for it -- these too would qualify as `provocative`. I have got into more trouble in the print media...

1. I do not see anything wrong in being provocative, which in my case has merely amounted to asking questions.
2. The `provocation` is not ever planned. It depends on the subject matter and how I deal with it. In my case, I just happen NOT to agree with many things. However, re. my so-called sensational headlines, I do not think you will ever find me using those when dealing with a sensitive subject.

I believe things are perceived here as being more provocative due to the immediacy and nature of the responses.

On a lighter note...shaayad hum satthiya gaye hai!

Regards,
Farzana

Behram, vivek, Beej, thanks for your posts. Behram rightly pointed out that I let my passion overcome my intellect when posting the last one. Which is an easy task, since I have too much of the former and too little of the latter!

Jews did not deserve their grisly fates at the hands of those bastard Nazis. That much is undisputed.

But somehow the cynical side of me says that if Jews were not such a powerful lobby in the USA, we wouldn`t be crying over their fate for so long. Especially since they`ve done so well for themselves after.

Hardly anyone sheds a tear for the Japanese over Hiroshima & Nagasaki. How unnecessary was that.

I am not anti-US, though my post may have given that impression. America has given the world what most of us hold most precious- the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Guilt free.

Still, sometimes I get depressed and fight with my family and colleagues and come and post these things as a sort of catharsis.