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Culture Cloning

Shaista Rameez November 19, 2005

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#417 Posted by teshah on December 4, 2005 4:18:58 pm
Re: # 333

Dost-mittar

But what the women, especially the Punjabi middle class house wives, themselves generally complain about is epitomised in a cliche: ``Dinne chulla te raatein lulla``, Bismillah, Inshallah, Mashallah.
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#416 Posted by satyamvada on November 29, 2005 10:10:46 am

Anil (response to #377)

1. Chowk isnt exactly filled with people who have read or have interest in scholarship.

2. In your posting on Sanskrit, while you are on the right track, you end up making
a bunch of wrong statements as well. This is not so much as to correct you as to
be able to inform and then have a logical rational discussion.

a) You said there are 80 sutras in Samskritam. I presume you mistook the
`ashtadhyayi` of Panini. It is 8 chapters (Ashtadhyayi means 8 chapters)
containing approx 4000 rules. Yes. It is in the so called Backus-Naur form.

b) The so called Subject Object Verb order is not fixed in Samskritam. It could
potentially be in any order. There are certain exceptions in Samskritam also.
Also, Panini does not cover some of the `vaidika` (i.e from the vedas) forms.

c) There is no common ``North-Indian`` uccharan - A maithili speakin person
differs from a braj-basha speaking person to a punjabi speaker to a
rajasthani speaker etc.

d) Samskritam is not only about so called classical topics, law, medicine etc.
There are puzzles (prahelika) , jokes, subhashita`s etc. Recently there have
even been songs in Samskritam.

Finally, its good to know that you have atleast spent some time trying to learn
about Samskritam.

Regards,
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#415 Posted by anil on November 28, 2005 9:41:32 pm
Sridhar:

``Listen u idiot! ``
is the only answer you gave to my question on how to address you. I do not need to address you with this salutation, this you are doing it to yourself. You do not need my help, and I cannot do it. Please do tell me which part of the following that your brain full of profanity does not understand. May be clean profanities out of your brain, and make some room for knowledge.

``Sanskrit was the classical literary language of the Indian Hindus and Panini is considered the founder of the language and literature. ``

``Joseph goes on to make a convincing argument for the algebraic nature of Indian mathematics arising as a consequence of the structure of the Sanskrit language. In particular he suggests that algebraic reasoning, the Indian way of representing numbers by words, and ultimately the development of modern number systems in India, are linked through the structure of language.``

``Panini should be thought of as the forerunner of the modern formal language theory used to specify computer languages. The Backus Normal {sic. should be ``Naur``} Form was discovered independently by John Backus in 1959, but Panini`s notation is equivalent in its power to that of Backus and has many similar properties. It is remarkable to think that concepts which are fundamental to today`s theoretical computer science should have their origin with an Indian genius around 2500 years ago.``

The conservatism of South Indian brahmins has been the biggest obstacle among the literate people to change, and lead efforts to throw caste system away. South Indian brahmins in South Indian temples are the biggest bigots. You are the people who still do not let others enter parts of temple, not let others drink from certain village wells,, and let all kids sit in the class together. Why are you forgeting the conversion rate in the South. Why are you forgeting that South Indian brahmin dominated, Congress Party has not come to power in Tamlnadu after 1960`s.

Please do not gloat about IT which you do not know once again. It would be more like me calling you what I do not want to call you.

Believe it or not entreprenuerism from North and the synergy between North and South India are responsible for IT boost. Let me just say that I do not want to shock you by my credentials in this area. Also, it was Nehru`s vision to have electronic Industry in Bangalore.

Please do not jump and get overly excited as IT being South India phenomenon. Whole of India is on a good game plan. Please keep your emotions and lack of knowledge out, and thus do not destroy the game plan that you know nothing. Such statements and jump into profanity seem full of emotions to intelligent people. If your are in your 40s, and Ajeya is in his 20s, then you must have had time to cool down your testasterones.

Please go and do something about opening the temple doors, wells for all Indians, and make all students sit in the school together, rather than beat them up and throw them out of jobs when they convert. Only then come and stake a claim or call some one names. You certainly have given yourself a very good adjective - South Indian brahmin snob. I did not give you this adjective, please note.

Your lack of knowledge of Sanskrit grammar and understanding of its development is obvious. Will you please care to explain why you do not find the difference between students of world famous Nalanda and masses? This is certainly not an issue about Sanskrit, it is an issue about social structure.

Btw, my point and almost unanumously accepted view, has been that Sanskrit could never become the language of the masses?

In the past I have mostly igonored your responses to my postings.

You might recall (if cannot, please go through all the posts here) that you injected with profanity to my message to Ajeya to stop profanity. Was that your superiority complex of a South Indian brahmin snop that makes you feel you have license to use profanity? I know South Indians who never use profanity, likewise I know Punjabis who always use profanity.

Ajeya (please read his posts) had mentioned that he may want to understand Sanskrit grammar. I have a feeling your South India brahmin superiority was hit hard when you discovered someone other than you who also can talk on this subject. BTW, South Indian brahmin sahib, I do not need to cut-and-paste about Sanskrit grammar. If your knowledge of Sanskrit grammar is what you have shown so far, I can probably teach few things about Sanskrit grammar to your teacher too.

Any way physician sahib, do not loose your brain, and end up being your own patient. That would certainly be a disaster. You must accept that Sanskrit is not your forte, and it certainly is not the property of South India brahmins. However, please do increase your knowledge on Sanskrit, before you discusss this subject. It will save you embarrasment and you would not have to hide behind the profanities either. May be try a new year resolution, no profanity to hide behind, when caught.

BTW, good luck, and remember there is more to life than Google, and psychiatry.

Anil
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#414 Posted by anil on November 28, 2005 9:29:19 pm
Sridhar:

``Listen u idiot! ``
is the only answer you gave to my question on how to address you. I do not need to address you with this salutation, this you are doing it to yourself. You do not need my help, and I cannot do it. Please do tell me which part of the following that your brain full of profanity does not understand. May be clean profanities out of your brain, and make some room for knowledge.

``Sanskrit was the classical literary language of the Indian Hindus and Panini is considered the founder of the language and literature. ``

``Joseph goes on to make a convincing argument for the algebraic nature of Indian mathematics arising as a consequence of the structure of the Sanskrit language. In particular he suggests that algebraic reasoning, the Indian way of representing numbers by words, and ultimately the development of modern number systems in India, are linked through the structure of language.``

``Panini should be thought of as the forerunner of the modern formal language theory used to specify computer languages. The Backus Normal {sic. should be ``Naur``} Form was discovered independently by John Backus in 1959, but Panini`s notation is equivalent in its power to that of Backus and has many similar properties. It is remarkable to think that concepts which are fundamental to today`s theoretical computer science should have their origin with an Indian genius around 2500 years ago.``

The conservatism of South Indian brahmins has been the biggest obstacle among the literate people to change, and lead efforts to throw caste system away. South Indian brahmins in South Indian temples are the biggest bigots. You are the people who still do not let others enter parts of temple, not let others drink from certain village wells,, and let all kids sit in the class together. Why are you forgeting the conversion rate in the South. Why are you forgeting that South Indian brahmin dominated, Congress Party has not come to power in Tamlnadu after 1960`s.

Please do not gloat about IT which you do not know once again. It would be more like me calling you what I do not want to call you.

Believe it or not entreprenuerism from North and the synergy between North and South India are responsible for IT boost. Let me just say that I do not want to shock you by my credentials in this area. Also, it was Nehru`s vision to have electronic Industry in Bangalore.

Please do not jump and get overly excited as IT being South India phenomenon. Whole of India is on a good game plan. Please keep your emotions and lack of knowledge out, and thus do not destroy the game plan that you know nothing. Such statements and jump into profanity seem full of emotions to intelligent people. If your are in your 40s, and Ajeya is in his 20s, then you must have had time to cool down your testasterones.

Please go and do something about opening the temple doors, wells for all Indians, and make all students sit in the school together, rather than beat them up and throw them out of jobs when they convert. Only then come and stake a claim or call some one names. You certainly have given yourself a very good adjective - South Indian brahmin snob. I did not give you this adjective, please note.

Your lack of knowledge of Sanskrit grammar and understanding of its development is obvious. Will you please care to explain why you do not find the difference between students of world famous Nalanda and masses? This is certainly not an issue about Sanskrit, it is an issue about social structure.

Btw, my point and almost unanumously accepted view, has been that Sanskrit could never become the language of the masses?

In the past I have mostly igonored your responses to my postings.

You might recall (if cannot, please go through all the posts here) that you injected with profanity to my message to Ajeya to stop profanity. Was that your superiority complex of a South Indian brahmin snop that makes you feel you have license to use profanity? I know South Indians who never use profanity, likewise I know Punjabis who always use profanity.

Ajeya (please read his posts) had mentioned that he may want to understand Sanskrit grammar. I have a feeling your South India brahmin superiority was hit hard when you discovered someone other than you who also can talk on this subject. BTW, South Indian brahmin sahib, I do not need to cut-and-paste about Sanskrit grammar. If your knowledge of Sanskrit grammar is what you have shown so far, I can probably teach few things about Sanskrit grammar to your teacher too.

Any way physician sahib, do not loose your brain, and end up being your own patient. That would certainly be a disaster. You must accept that Sanskrit is not your forte, and it certainly is not the property of South India brahmins. However, please do increase your knowledge on Sanskrit, before you discusss this subject. It will save you embarrasment and you would not have to hide behind the profanities either. May be try a new year resolution, no profanity to hide behind, when caught.

BTW, good luck, and remember there is more to life than Google, and psychiatry.

Anil
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#413 Posted by rsridhar on November 28, 2005 7:30:01 pm
re: Anil`s various posts
This guy seems to have concluded various aspects of my personality just by reading my posts!
Just because i was defending some issue wrt sanskrit, this guy concluded in one of his posts that i was emotional about sanskrit. Well, then he can also, by the same token, accuse me of being emotional about urdu and tamil as well because i have defended these languages at various forums.
Then this guy goes on to accuse me of being a south indian brahmin snob! That too from just reading my posts!
One wonders if this guy has a logical reasoning capability at all.
Sridhar
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#412 Posted by rsridhar on November 28, 2005 7:12:30 pm
re: post # 396

(Please do learn Sanskrit grammar, it is interesting and quite easy.)
I was taught sanskrit by a very learned person in school. What little i remeber i cherish. My basics are very good. I do not need your advice. Cutting and pasting something from website is not a proof of knowing anything. I doubt if u even have a rudimentary knowledge of that language.
Sridhar
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#411 Posted by jang on November 28, 2005 7:09:35 pm
may i please request that insults be delivered in chaste sanskrit? ;-)
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#410 Posted by rsridhar on November 28, 2005 7:04:55 pm
re:#398 by anil
Listen u idiot!
I live in US, am a proud US citizen and am a humble being doing my work as a physician. I am proud of what i am. What made u think i am not proud of my heritage! My forefathers have given much to make India a better place.
I am proud but do not have this superiority complex that u talk about. This is uniquely a North Indian trait. That is why all race riots happen in Bihar, UP etc. Brahmins of south have accepted the new realities and have moved into newer avenues including business, IT etc. Many of my cousins are married to non-brahmins. I think i talked about these in my posts in another forum.
It would be good if u change yourself rather than trying to change the world!
Sridhar
P.S: profanities are reserved for those who deserve it.
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#409 Posted by rsridhar on November 28, 2005 6:56:27 pm
re:#399 by anil
You do not seem to understand my posts at all and are in a world of your own, much like Romair. You rival with him in being the chowk`s idiot.
Sridhar
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#408 Posted by rsridhar on November 28, 2005 6:54:05 pm
re:#400 by jang
One of the great tragedies of education in India is that students are unable to read old classics in their original language (sanskrit) because sanksrit as a conversational language is having hard time keeping itself alive.
All classic texts have been translated into english and most of them are on line including Kalidasa`s work.
Sridhar
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#407 Posted by Pardesi on November 28, 2005 6:23:19 pm

#405 Anil

My son went through same experience (Columbia undergrad ’03) that you discussed.

Apart from personal growth, another reason good schools mandate liberal arts courses for everyone is to insure that you get broader understanding of the society you live in and the one you will hopefully improve. In order to do that one must understand why people react certain ways, what are their cultural and historical biases and thus how would you apply all the learning (technical or otherwise) to the real world. Education for the sake of a super duper degree is not very useful. They want to produce leaders and not just followers.
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#406 Posted by jang on November 28, 2005 4:15:48 pm
http://hindinest.com/sahitya/02355.htm

here is a translation of Meghdoot poem (along with the original) in Hindi..its in Devnagari. There is one sentence, which is puzzling..sanskrit buffs?

Dynataswado vivrutam jangahanam ko vihattum samarthahan

(loose translation in hindi i think...``who will give-up a ughare-janghon wala lover`` ;-)

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#405 Posted by anil on November 28, 2005 3:22:58 pm
Re: # 400

Jang:

Good point. In the U.S. undergraduate college students must take 51 (that is what my daughters took) credit units as general enducation. They have freedom to choose the subjects they are interested. I did not see any handicap in my daughter after she graduated from Columbia University, on the contrary I saw her broadened horizon.

There is so much Indian college students can learn by spending one additional year in the college and take general education courses. The courses can range from heritage, classical India languages and literature to immersion in modern Indian languages, economics, political science to public speaking. In the early 20`s students have far more capabilities and less prejudices to grasp and learn. I always had the curiosity to learn about Sanskrit and social sciences, but had to wait till I came out of India to study these. Out of the box and lateral thinking matures as a result, this helps overcome prejudices that may easily form due to narrow thinking.

Anil

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#404 Posted by mohar11 on November 28, 2005 3:22:43 pm
Re: # 402

Bible old testament is NOT in the same league as Meghdoot... I mean - the former is a religious book.....

But point taken..... College courses in India rarely offer opportunities to study into classical past of the country and the civilization.... people blame it on the commie/socialist agenda :)
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#403 Posted by anil on November 28, 2005 3:05:28 pm
Re: # 396

Sridhar:

You seem to have penchant for profanity. Draw a timeline and see for yourself, also please use your brain for other than profanity. Please do learn Sanskrit grammar, it is interesting and quite easy.

Also ancient hindu society never limited movement of people from one caste to the other. Get rid of this superiority complex of being a South Indian brahmin. Your kind of attitude has caused enough problems for India.

I am least interested in wasting time with a narssistic person like yourself whose access is only google and Internet, and who thinks others go to google to impress your highness.

Anyway, I do thank you for search on google, there is world beyond it too.

Anil


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#402 Posted by jang on November 28, 2005 3:00:41 pm
#401 i am comparing 4 year college westerners to 4 year college indians...or 8 year to 8 year, not averrage joes. even there, average joe will have a better knowledge of the bible old testament.
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listing 1-16   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Interact Index

    #417 teshah
    #416 satyamvada
    #415 anil
    #414 anil
    #413 rsridhar
    #412 rsridhar
    #411 jang
    #410 rsridhar
    #409 rsridhar
    #408 rsridhar
    #407 Pardesi
    #406 jang
    #405 anil
    #404 mohar11
    #403 anil
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    #400 jang
    #399 anil
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    #395 anil
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    #392 rsridhar
    #391 KaalChakra
    #390 mannyd
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    #54 dost_mittar
    #53 Netizen
    #52 Zeena
    #51 sheelajaywant
    #50 faisaluno
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    #48 jang
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    #43 tahmed32
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    #35 scout
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    #33 faisaluno
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    #27 stuka
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    #24 Simran
    #23 dullabhatti
    #22 khamkhwa.
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    #20 khamkhwa.
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