Us and Them - A Pakistani professor counters Urdu newspapers adnan #41 ``Well i have been reading commentaries on the quran for quite some time, but I think this tahmad has discovered something new in the holy book. Since i am an ignoramus please shed some light on which verses from the quran r u referring to``

Here are a few.

Surah 2:256 ``Let there be no compulsion in religion...``

Surah 3:144 ``Muhammad is no more Than a Messenger``

It is logical to understand this to mean that the Prophet was charged with conveying a message, not with ensuring it`s implementation.

Surah 6:159

``As for those who divide

Their religion and break up

Into sects, thou hast

No part in them in the least:

Their affair is with Allah:

He will in the end

Tell them the truth

Of all that they did``

I understand this to mean that it is not for me to go around telling shias or ahmedis that they are wrong and you are right: ``Their affair is with Allah``. Since the Quran also repeatedly says that there are no partners with Allah, the logical conclusion is that anyone who takes upon himself affairs that belong to Allah is taking on the role of a partner of Allah. I find it fascinating that this most fundamental message of Islam is violated with impunity every day in Pakistan. The Quran in a number of places makes it clear that the Prophet is there to convey a message, not to watch over it`s implementation. He is there only to warn, and leave it to the individual to carry it out. Can any true muslim claim to have a broader mandate from Allah than that given to the Prophet? What does this make of those who routinely hurl insults at other religions and condemn to death people who dare to express their views?

Also see Surah 10:41

``If they charge thee

With falsehood, say:

``My work to me

And yours to you!

Ye are free from responsibility

For what I do and I

For what ye do!````

Surah 11:12

``...But thou (the Prophet) art there only to warn!

It is Allah that arrangeth

All affairs!``

Surah 110 deals specifically with this issue:

``Say: O ye

That reject Faith!

I worship not that

Which ye worship,

...

To you be your Way,

And to me mine.``

I hope this is enough to whet your appetite to study the Quran more carefully, and the courage to reach your own honest conclusions regarding where the blasphemy laws stand in relation to the Quran. That is your duty as a muslim.

Why Clinton should visit Pakistan Stuka #190 I did indeed read your post. I agree that the scenario of a ``Hostile India`` is a con game instituted on the people of Pakistan. There is a great need to change the image of India from that of an enemy to that of a friendly neighbor with common goals and aspirations for making the subcontinent a better part of the world and with a rich and diverse culture.

Having said this, I do maintain that nuclear weapons are a cost-effective defense mechanism since we unfortunately do have to take the military threat from India seriously. This is because India is not free from the image of a ``Hostile Pakistan`` either and the Advanis in India are certainly not on the fringes of power in India.

I pray one day things will change and (as I said before on chowk) one day we can toss away the nukes and maybe even disband our armies (I dont think it is unrealistic to see the world moving slowly but surely in that general direction anyway). But that day will come only after both Indians and Pakistanis (even if only as individuals) make efforts to promote better appreciation and respect for the two countries.

Why Clinton should visit Pakistan FerozeK #227: ``his purges of the Pakistan army`s heirarchy was considered in a similar sense.``

Everybody keeps pointing to purges. To the best of my knowledge, Musharraf has superseded two Generals by making a third the CJCS. This is quite ordinary and common. Somebody had to become the CJCS. And in line with Army traditions, the other two resigned. If an even junior guy had been promoted, then all three would have resigned.

Everyone, including myself, initially saw too much into this, I think. Does anyone have any other legitimate facts, or is everyone operating on hearsay? The only significant point I see is that two of the three generals who helped him carry out the coup, have now finished their careers. And that he has gotten rid of two Muhajir Generals. Everyone cannot become a full general.

The ISI is a very fluid organization. Its leadership rotates between all kinds of different people on a regular basis (read Najam Sethi`s article about General Ghulam, who got him out of NS`s captivity). It is not a permanent career. Officers join it for a little while, and then go back to their normal units and commands. Air Force and Navy officers do the same. Due to this, it gets all kinds of leaders as its heads; liberals, religious, party animals, compotent, incompetent, etc. Infact, it is not a good long term or short term career move (none of my colleagues wanted to go into intelligence). The best officers want to stay in fighter squadrons, ships, armour units, etc.

People tend to think of the ISI as an independent organization, for some reason. Only the head is independently appointed by the Prime Minister. However, the COAS can supersede him with someone else, or ask him for a resignation. Due to this, it cannot operate as an independent organization.

So Musharraf appointed Mahmood its head, and then didn`t make him the CJCS, so he resigned. If Mahmood would have been appointed the CJCS, then someone else would have resigned and people would have still said the same thing.

Any comments?

Why Clinton should visit Pakistan Stuka #243 Hard for OBL to hide - he is 6 foot 5 inches and thin, at 160 pounds. He could of course hide by standing still and pretending to be a bamboo tree.

He had no Choice! sadna #174

“As far as India and Pakistan are concerned we are talking about 1billion + 140 million people having to rub along.”

I am sorry, but it is beside the point, and it does not answer my question. I was under the impression that India should not worry about anything else but her own “national interests” - as the GOI see fit…. I can cut and paste examples of comments to that effect from other boards to support my assertion if you like?

We are not talking about what, in reality, is in the interest of the people of subcontinent or the world at large…. No, no, none of that idealist BS. We are not going to get starry eyed here and talk about peaceful coexistence, or the suffering of humanity… Who gives a sh#t about that? We are talking about the perceived/imagined interests of the state of India or Pakistan exclusive of all other factors. We are not talking about how Indian/Pakistani “national” interests, in the long term, are interwoven... or how (eventually) the immoral/unethical behavior of their respective “states” will adversely affect the population of subcontinent or humanity. What I am arguing is that according to this sick “in the national interest” logic [which has been used in the past to shoot down my calls to work towards peace and prosperity in subcontinent, and to support the Palestinians in their struggle], GOP is justified in distorting/unsignifying the pre-Islamic history. Why? because the ‘state’ of Pakistan perceives this to be in the interest of the “nation.” According to this logic, concerns of Individuals on moral/ethical grouds do not matter...state can not be guided by individual morality.

What I am saying here (to some of the critics of the Pakistani official version of history) is to cut the crap and be fuc#ing consistent in what they BS about.

The Case for De jure Legalization anNY #187 Glad you liked the post. The internet is truly a unique medium - you may discuss experiences and thoughts that are quite personal with total strangers. How we use it is up to us.

In Defence of Benevolent Dictators Urstruly you write ``“Tiliar”, “Dhaga” and “Akhrot````

The first two I understand (Karachi-lingo for UPite and Villager). Who on earth is an Akhrot?

Again, Desperate Times PS. Please replace ``Mohammad a tyrant`` with ``Mohammad as a tyrant`` in the last sentence.

Masala Democracy Re: Umair`s posts

Since we are exchanging Russian sayings, heres another one for you. Minister of War Stolypin (sp?) described Russia under Czar Nicholas II during WWI thus: ``The true tragedy of Russia is that it is an autocracy without an autocrat.`` Nicholas II was probably the most decent man to have ruled Russia in the past several hundred years. He was also the most irresolute and feckless. So, the true tragedy of Pakistan is that it is an autocracy without an autocrat.

BTW, to all you professional patriots and Arab-wannabees out there who keep bleating on about baa-baa black sheeps running away from Pakistan, check out this story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1028000/1028026.stm


Turns out that 2/3 of Pakistanis surveyed want to leave Pakistan to look for work elsewhere and half of these do not want to come back! I had no idea that Pakistan had so many baa-baa black sheeps! I feel quite in the majority.

Why An Interim Civilian Government will Fail sigalph235

``Notwithstanding the ideology espoused by the brownshirts represented by Farangikush and Fairdinkum, Pakistan will surely rediscover her place in the comity of civilized nations.``


You haven`t recovered from the grief I caused you by exposing your hypocrisy on Palestinian issue… have you?

Anyways, I think you are young and foolish, but cute :) Your attitude reminds me of my life 20 years ago... chooroon ga nahi.. badla loon ga.. haan :)

I know…. you want sympathy from Ferozk don`t you? :) Ok, go on get it! Had I known how young you were, I would never have been so harsh on you… sorry about that mate!

Btw, I like you now. I think you are a cute boy! :) [I solemnly swear that I am not pathan]

He had no Choice! Rsaxena #44 You write ``I believe that the quickest solution to this problem is for the government to ``bankrupt`` itself spending money on providing mandatory and free education in rural and semi-rural areas.``

This is not a quick solution (there are no quick solutions to moving hundreds of millions of people out of poverty), but certainly the correct one. Many people think that the GI Bill (whereby US soldiers returning home after winning WWII were given free (or perhaps subsidized) college education was the smartest move made by the US government in the 20th century. What you propose (free but mandatory education) is, as you must know, the norm in the US public school system.

Another thing: if proper education facilities are available, you dont need to make it mandatory - in Pakistan, even in the remotest areas, the most conservative families are eager to have even their girls go to school: I have been told this by a gentleman who has opened almost 200 girls schools in Pakistan, with parents providing the school premises and the NGO providing salaries and transport expenses for teachers.

An Open Letter to Gen. Pervaiz Musharaff ali1 #46 you write ``What I find ``quite funny`` is the way in which some middle aged Pakistani males become so affable when dealing with this person with the handle ``Sadna``.``

You`ll understand how it is possible for people to have a friendly discussion when you have grown up to be four or five years old. Meanwhile, have fun in the playpen with Jay, and try not to wet one another too much.

He had no Choice! re muniba #9:

Thanks for your reply. I sometimes wonder if Ismat had gotten the same attention had she been a man. Maybe the thought of women writers delving into somewhat taboo subjects titillate the audience more than they ought to :)

re Hamzad whatever:

Dude get some gripewater before you choke.

later

-sac

In Defence of Benevolent Dictators urstruly and spreading love.
i dont think its so much about locking away
those memories..its about accomodating and
making space and taking violence as a
normal occurence. i remember going back to
pakistan to visit in the mid nineties ( haveing
lived there before) and within two weeks, i got
used to hearing the news, seeing things
happen around me and so life resumed as
normal.
i am amazed at karachites and the ways in
which they work around what is happening
there. human spirit or just desensitization to
violence...(poverty, disease, facades) take your
pick.
in a city (society, culture) where a woman can
plead the plight of the poor while munching on
a three hundred ruppee burger and in the next
breath talk about how hard it is to find good
servants ( my old one wanted a raise...just
think, you cant hire servants in less than five
hundred rupees a month anymore..hai allah),
accomodating violence should be a fuking
piece of cake.

rizvi

He had no Choice! #99

The perils of letting anyone & everyone having ``freedom`` to express themselves are that in a number-democracy intellect & learning is dragged down to the lowest base and is thus--- debased.

Ghalib expressed it more aptly:

Hurr bul-havis nay husn prastee shiaar kee

ubb abrooay shaivay ahle nazar gayee.

translation(colloquial): Now that every Tom,Dick & Harry is lusting after Beauty,The dignity/goodwill of the connoisseur is nought.

Why this pre-amble?

Please note that Mormons are just that MORMONS,they do not claim to be CHRISTIANS.Hence there is NO Problem.SO much so that None of the christian sects call themselves christians(They are officially Catholics,Protestants,methodists,evangelicals etc etc---Pope is the head of the Catholic Church,Queen is the head of the Anglican church,Orthodox:Greek,Russian,Coptic,etc etc never claim to be THE Christian church--it is just left to be assumed & understood that they are so.

The Alawites,Nusseirees,Mehdvees do NOT claim to be Muslims & hence not bothered by anyone.

If you claim what you are not,then there IS a problem.Just try to copy even the semblence of a brand-name & logo and watch and smell the sh *t landing on your face by a ``respectable`` multi-national.

Always THINK first.

He had no Choice! Viking #107

``i feel sorry for those kids as much as you do. but....``

Viking,

Isn`t it what they all say?
I am not racist, but..... I am not a redneck, but....