Indians and Pakistanis Must Start Anew HEY PAKISTANI AND INDIAN HATERS (I.E. HATERS OF ONES OWN ROOTS):

I have an idea! Why not set up a meeting somewhere, and fight it out, hand to hand, man to man. That way there will at least be some resolution to both both groups of cowards who basically use forums such as these to express nerdy refletions of cyber underdeveloped minds. All of you are as pathetic as Thakeray. No amount of reading or reflection can cure you of your bitterness or hatred. May some god have mercy on your souls.

Not Far, Now I am death

The end you longed for

And yet you did not have

the courage to cut

I am death

But I want for you

to be happy once

For once in your wretched life

I am death

When you cried into

your pillow

``Allah Mujhe Uthalay``

I was the only one listening

Now hear my sweet voice

Pick up your blade

Your rope

And come home.

Fighting in Peace This is probably one of the best articles I have read on the kashmir fiasco:

Paradise Lost, in the Name of God and Self-Determination

India and Pakistan twist truth as they pour guns, money into the disputed

Himalayan region.

By MANSOOR IJAZ

Mansoor Ijaz, a nuclear physicist of Pakistani descent, is chairman of an

investment firm in New York

E-mail: mijaz@sree.net

When approaching Srinagar, capital of this disputed Himalayan state, one has

the unmistakable impression of coming to paradise on Earth. Buttressed by

jagged snow-capped mountains that have been called the roof of the world,

the Kashmir valley is a breathtaking mosaic of towering pines, glistening

lakes and flowing streams.

On the ground, however, reality is quite different. The dispute over Kashmir

always has boiled down to the fate of the people in its valley, controlled

by India. I went there this month as an American citizen to ask ordinary

Kashmiris why what had started 50 years ago as a principled fight for

self-determination had turned into the violent war of religious extremists.

What I found was disturbing, not only because the documented human rights

violations are real, but also because of the overwhelming evidence of lies

by both Pakistani and Indian authorities.

New Delhi, for example, would have the world believe that only a few

thousand troops are defending against foreign aggression on their soil. Yet

Indian security forces could be seen everywhere. The look and feel of a

police state was unambiguous. One Kashmiri official finally admitted that

the real figure for troops in the valley alone approached 150,000. And the

valley represents only a fraction of the total area in dispute in Kashmir.

Interestingly, local police and security forces commanders admitted that

their soldiers had been overzealous in expelling militants from local homes,

violating civil liberties in the process--contrition that may be part of an

organized campaign by New Delhi to lift the appearance of an oppressive

environment of rights abuses. Permitting foreigners like me to visit after

the abuses largely have stopped also may be part of the appeasement policy.

Yet perhaps the most compelling facet of India`s win-at-all-costs strategy

in Kashmir is the evidence of the money being poured into the enclave to

secure a reconciliation between local Kashmiris and the motherland. New

construction and refurbishment of tourist hot spots can be seen everywhere.

One look at the homes in which Kashmiri separatist leaders and others in the

valley live, and the big business of war becomes humorously obvious.

Separatists get funding for insurgency operations from Pakistan`s military

intelligence apparatus. Then India matches the grants to bring them back to

the Indian camp. It`s the politics of war finance at its worst.

Pakistan`s deceit was equally clear. Islamabad would have the world believe

that it does not provide official military support for militant groups

waging jihad, or holy war, and that the militants are indigenous Kashmiris

battling for their own freedom. Both claims strain credulity. I saw several

thousand weapons seized from insurgents in gun battles around the valley and

along the Line of Control--the unofficial border between Pakistan-controlled

and India-controlled Kashmir--everything from the latest AK-47 rifles to

sophisticated hand grenades to rocket launchers bearing the embossed logos

of Pakistan`s official munitions factories. The fingerprints of Pakistani

army and intelligence support were unmistakable.

I reviewed identification cards taken from captured foreign moujahedeen

warriors. These cards were designed to notify families back home in the

event of combat death and to ensure war reparations would be properly

paid--hardly procedures for local sons of war. Receipt books for money

collected in the names of various Islamic charities to finance the purchase

of war supplies further evidenced the principal complaint that Kashmiris

repeatedly voiced to me: that their struggle to gain independence had turned

into someone else`s war for the cause of pan-Arabism, pan-Islamism or

something other than Kashmiri freedom.

Stuck in the middle of these two egocentric forces are the Kashmiris,

perhaps the most docile people on Earth. Mentally, emotionally and

physically ravaged by a war that neither side seems able to win, they appear

on the verge of opting for peace with Hindu masters who offer economic

revitalization and peaceful coexistence rather than pressing on with Muslim

Pakistan, which offers little more than religious zealotry and violent

accession.

One Kashmiri elder who ran a pharmacy on the outskirts of Srinagar put it

most succinctly: ``When the moujahedeen first came, we welcomed them into our

homes with open arms. Today, they come from far away and demand our food and

shelter for freeing us. Yet they show us their guns and we do not feel free.

When they leave, the security forces ransack our homes looking for them, and

the violence starts all over again. This type of freedom we do not wish for

our enemy.``

Without an end to the violence that dominates the character of today`s

freedom fighters, Pakistan is in danger of losing whatever moral authority

it once may have enjoyed in trying to liberate Kashmir. But India should be

clear that Pakistan will never go quietly. New Delhi can do a big-bucks deal

with native Kashmiris who are sick of war, but militants financed by

deep-pocketed zealots in far-off lands may escalate the stakes to an

unacceptable price for paradise on Earth.

Unsettling Rain #12 Zehra

I apologised directly to Manail since I did not intend to be sarcastic or cynical at all. It just happened that I read her poem after I read the following:

http://www.outlookindia.com/20000529/features1.htm

I hope you will understand. I think what came out of both parts was two angles of the same dilemma that we immigrants face.

Best regards and again sorry for the unintended cynicism.

Sheheryar

Unsettling Rain And when I told them

that I was starved

because my family did

not provide enough dowry

And I was beaten

because I could not

put enough food

on the table

Or that I was stoned to death

Acid thrown in my face

because my kurta was torn

And had my flesh exposed

They asked me to come to their home

Where I would be safe and happy

And I did.

To Western Women It is not the burkha but what goes on in it that counts!!

Yet we share the same home - Our Indus Valley To jay, temporal and others:

Unfortunately, Musharraf openly supports the ``freedom fighters`` in Kashmir. The hijacking was obviously supported by Pakistan (lets not delude ourselves that they were beamed up from the border). The slaughter of the Sikhs was again, obviously done by muslim militants. Lets move away from all of this RAW rubbish that Musharraf and his ilk put out. For god sake Musharraf even had Nawaz`s lawyer murdered!

Nawaz was edging towards peace with India and having the army as an unimportant force in Pakistan could not be tolerated by Musharraf (who wants to maintain their $5 billion budget). Note that fighting has increased tremendously since Musharraf came in. I have to say that Islamic forces are overtaking Pakistan and I fear for the future of the nation. Public schooling has failed and madrassah`s are becoming more and more common (God help us, literally). However, Musharraf is fighting a losing battle. Kashmir will never be resolved and when push comes to shove, India will kick our asses (as it so easily can). But that is just an opinion as I continue to lament that Pakistan and India should never have been separated. Probably the biggest blunder in history. Musharraf needs to break away from the Talibaan and let them fight their own battles. Some claim that we need to keep Afghanistan on our side (given past events of Afghani bullying). However, Kashmir is not our battle, and the sooner Musharraf realizes that (which I feel he does) and acts upon it, the better.

Question: If you had a choice of living under India or living under Afghanistan, which would you choose?

The Bombing Actually, I thought the article was an illuminating piece on what a thin string the muslim world dangles on. Also it showed the absurdness of what the end of humanity can come due to (the bombing of Kaabaa, thus the elimination of life due to the elimination of a symbol, but we muslims are good at that).

However, I was ofcourse more interested in what happened after the robe slipped off! Unfortunately that was anti climactic! Keep it up Temporal!

Unnoticed Invisibility I enjoyed the poem. It seems like a followup to Anita Zaidi`s poem (earlier in chowk) and thus breaks the generalizations of the ``suffering`` that we associate with the ``desi woman.``

However, if there is any critique I would apply to it, it is relating to that of the ``global`` view of WHO a desi woman is. We want to avoid generalizations (as your poem shows) but we continue to do it in terms of the socio-economic class of people we speak about. I dont mean to imply that all desi women living in poverty are unhappy with their patriarchical situations but I do feel that you speak of ONE desi woman, yourself, or maybe a multiplicity of that one based upon similarly brought up women (this is always a hard one to define but in this case I will assume that ).

When you say that all men are not abusers or all arranged marriages are not unhappy, you are right. However, it is the ability to do something about it (the abuse or the decision not to get married) that has always been my problem with the current system.

The fact that a large number of (desi) women cannot ``pick up a pen and create`` primarily due to the illiteracy the patriachal system encourages illuminates that the global ``desi woman`` does not exist. In that case we speak about just a small (very small) minority of elite educated, liberated desi women who are saying,`` hey, wait a minute, I`m pretty happy with my life, husband, and children.``

But your point was well taken.

Regards

In Defence of Benevolent Dictators The bottomline is that Pakistan is not ready for democracy until they can provide the basics of education and health to the

population. Nawaz and Benazir/Asif were all great examples of the fact that we cannot have a democracy due to the

corruption and total amorality of the elites (who are the only ones with a chance at ruling.....the fact that someone from the

masses will be popular is a myth (unless we have a communist/mass revolution which would be a miracle). The west has

this wierd notion of ``democracy`` which just means keeping the rich in power and providing the theatre of populous rule.

Unfortunately in places like Pakistan the rich have no limits. These limits need to be placed by strong (and hopefully

selfless) forces. The elite in Pakistan are scum I tell you. Over ten years of ``democracy`` and they have basically done

nothing to help.

Farce A sad and touching poem. Very true the thoughts that you raise. If only choices were easy. However I think we luxuriously bathe in the sadness of fate at times. Sadness and regret over past decisions adds that melancholy feeling in life. True it is sad, but the ability to feel these emotions is in and off it self a wonderful thing. Thanks for the poem. It really hit a nerve.

He had no Choice! If someone asked me if my adolescence spent under the Zia rule was preferable to the BB, NS, FL et al years, I would regretably have to say yes. Unfortunately, it is literally a matter of survival for Pakistan at this point. What is the difference between the army and a civilian government that has no ethics. This is not to mention that people literally have lived in fear for years. With the law and order situation as it is in Pakistan, I frankly cannot imagine how it could continue. Now if only General Musharraf was a socialist! Then maybe some true reform would be possible in Pakistan.

A Recipe For Unbridled Pak-India Competition Great article Parvez. For the most part it appears that the proponents of Pakistan`s nuclear program live elsewhere or that they are unfortunately (yet not unfortunate in the least) alien to the ``other`` problems that exist in the country. What Pakistan needs at this point is to get rid of the current powers that be in totality and start afresh with new blood (hopefully not having been bitten by the virus of corruption and greed). There is plenty of sincerity, talent and drive in the population. Its the head of the snake that needs to be severed.

Imran Khan: Pakistan’s Next PM? I think Imran may well be the best we have but his succeeding is a whole different story. Negotiating power with the industrial and landed feudals on one hand and the army on the other is close to impossible in Pakistan. The only way he could succeed is by creating a revolution from the ground up (a peoples revolution). To have the guts to do such a thing in Pakistan is like signing ones own death certificate. But one cannot ignore the possibility of it since it is long overdue and the people of Pakistan definitely deserve a voice. However if a peoples revolution does develop it will probably be the most bloody time in Pakistan`s history. The powers that be will assure that.

So, Are You Pakistan? Ardeshir,

Thanks for taking me for a walk down memory lane. It`s been ages since I have thought about those wonderful times spent growing up in Pakistan. Being from Karachi, I too have very fond memories of the beach, Hawkesbay, Sandspit, etc. Like you, I too spent many summers upcountry in the foothills of Muree, Kaghan, etc. Recalling the past is a very bitter-sweet experience - particularly when the memories are of a wonderful and innocent time. The past indeed is another country.(sigh)

Cheers!

American Born, British Born, Canadian Born but still Desi Hassan:

The crowd you dealt with was actually quite reasonable. If you really want to see messed up desis dont look at the ones born here but look at the ones that have immigrated to the States or England, made their wealth (lots of it) and live `happily` in some suburb. Those are the true nightmares!

Also, dealing with other posts, the term ABCD is actually not only offensive but misleading. I find that American born desis have a focus which is very sincere and uncomplicated. Its us immigrants that are the truly confused ones!

Enjoy the land of plenty