Fissures in the Middle MZ sahib,

You wud have doubtless noted that while Pakistan is exporting terror to A'stan, India is providing aid and assistance in rebuilding that nation, which has been devstatated (partly) by your country's shenanigans.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Masadi sahib,

To continue with our debate last evening. First of all, it is neither my view nor my choice that Hindoos and Muslims cannot co-exist. It was the view of a vast majority of the Hindoos and Muslims of India in 1947. So if anyone merits the definition of a right wing lunatic it is almost all Hindoos/Muslims of India in 1947.

(I would put you in the category of those 40% approval rating for Jinnah, right wing lunatics)

Incidentally the same opinion poll which quoted a 40% approval rating for MAJ (pbuh) in India also quoted a close to 90% aproval for him in Pak. So do I take it that 90% of Pakistanis are right wing looneys. Btw, the list of MAJ admirers would include your old hero ZAB among others.

Btw, somewhere you have pointed out that poverty and disease kill more Indians than jihadis. You are right but omit mentioning the fact that the persistence of this poverty is partly a consequence of the karnameys of the poeple who supported the cuase of United India, people who you seem to have a sneaking admiration of.

Ajeya,

Yes, my opposition to MKG is partly a consequnce of his pandering to the original Talibs. But many other reasons as well.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Masadi sahib,

Further to 380/383

I want all Indians to be treated as equal in eyes of law and to cease to be Hindoos and Muslims and all that... in line with the 8/11 formula.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Tahmed sahib,

Gandhi and Jinnah were trained as lawyers in the UK in the same legal tradition as the Pakistani judges fighting for freedom in their on non-violent way in Pakistan today. So - while this will give heart attacks to many of my countrymen including Masadi and Urstruly - the fact is that if Gandhi and Jinnah get credit, so do the Brits who came up with this legal tradition to begin with.

Incidentally Gen Zia studied at St. Stephens College, Delhi the epitome of British liberal education in India. And the entire Pak Army officer crops has been trained in the finest gora Sandhurst tradition!!!

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Masadi sahib,

I would put you in the category of those 40% approval rating for Jinnah, right wing lunatics

If this definition of myself is true, you should be able to pick up a few posts where I have supported a slaughter of Muslims in Iraq, A'stan and FATA under the guise of the "WOT". No?

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Harishbhai,

Pls refer to YLH's write-up "Jinnah's India". The main argument against him is not that he was a Hindoo, but a man was a medievalist who pandered to communalists and Liberal MUSLIMs have been far more bitter at him for pandering to MUSLIM communalists/fundoos rather than Ram Rajya.

Nkg moshai,

(If the North Eastern states wanted separate country, I don't think Congress would have opposed it.)

Not true at all. INC and its leaders Patel and Bardoloi (the Assam strongman) made sure that NE remained part of India. While Nagas wanted independence and ML wanted whole of NE for Pakistan.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Dash babu,

Had I been of a voting age in 1950s, I wud certainly have been a Swatantra party voter.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Masadi sahib,

(do you support Jinnah because he rid India of a chunk of its Muslim population ......)

It is not a question of Hindoos getting rid of Muslims in India or a question of Muslims getting rid of Hindoos/Sikhs in Pakistan. It is quite simply a matter that had India remained united, Hindoos and Muslims as represented by INC and ML wud have made each others lives miserable. Things would have come to a standstill.

Creation of two independent nations- Pakistan (with 80% + Muslim pop and accounting for about 2/3rd of desi Muslims) and India (with 80% + Hindoo pop and accounting for all but a small chunk of desi Hindoo pop) gave the two nations a chance to shape nations as per the POV of two distinct groups. And both may well have succeeded and become great (and mutually friendly nation which incidentally was also MAJ's dream) nations which a permanently quarreling but United India could never have become.

Yes, both nations failed to a great extent not but becuase of Partition per se but becuase in each case wrong choices were made- in Pakistan (militant Islam/military intervention), in India bad economic choices largely overshadowed a basically correct political structure.

The enmity between two nations too was not a logical corollary of Partition but was largely a consequence of Kashmir, a problem which arose becuase of hypocritical and unprincipled behaviour on part of both INC/JLN and MAJ (pbuh).

Similarly the violence at Partition (which also soured relationship) was not a necessary outcome of Partition but becuae of Lord M's antics. Independence and Partition in 1948 in a orderly manner (with or without a peaceful exchange of population in the three partitioned provinces- Punjab, Bengal and Assam) wud have largely prevented this legacy of bitterness.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Harishbhai,

Moplah violence took place over quite a few weeks and there was enuff time for MKG to condemn this violence. Now I am not saying that Moplahs were followers of MKG but surely MKG cud have condemned the Moplah violence, no?

Btw if MAJ(pbuh) is to be held responsible for riotings and killings by Muslims, shouldnt MKG be held responsible for killing of Muslims in 1947 too.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Harishbhai,

(That was way before he became a proponent of non-violence. )

He was into ahimsa from his young days and he propounded non-violent satyagraha in 1906 while at the same time acting as a recruitment agent.

(that except for the one time)

Cant we then apply the same standard for MKG's recruitment drive in WW-I. And his excusing Moplah violence in 1920-22.

(what was Direct Action Day all about)

Did MAJ (pbuh) ask Leaguers to murder Hindoos/Sikhs? Yes, possibly he turned a deaf ear to some of his followers call for "action". But then MKG too turned a deaf ear to Moplists violence.

(Did Gandhi mobilize hundreds and thousands of Indians to pillage and kill black Kafirs? )

Did MAJ mobilize hundreds and thousands of Muslims to pillage and kill Hindoos?

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Tahmed sahib,

Re: 284

It would be only fair to say that neither MKG nor MAJ (pbuh) were angels, they had their own share of strengths and weaknesses and mistakes.

But he did one thing right - and that was his emphasis on nonviolence.

As a matter of fact, neither MKG nor MAJ (pbuh) were very different on this. MAJ (pbuh) was always an advocate of constitutional methods and never endorsed violence as part of policy except possibly the invasion of Kashmir by tribals. And MKG for all his non violence was an enthusiastic recruiter for Brits in the Zulu War and in WW-I and turned a blind eye to the Moplah violence.

but it was a tactical contribution to one community of people

One criticism often levelled against MAJ (pbuh) by Gandhians (and others) is that he spoke only for Muslims and broke the unity of Indian people by trying to privilege Muslims vis-a-vis Hindoos and yet they overlook that he did the same in Africa in trying to privilege Indians against Kafirs.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Ahmed madani sahib,

I disliked MKG even before I came across YLH and chowk.com. But his writings basically confirmed my belief about MKG being a nasty piece of goods.

Regarding Gandhi the movie, it was as we say in India, a super duper hit in the West (USA and Europe) and also picked up 8 Oscars. But in India itself the movie flopped badly becuase it did not have a song and dance sequence. Distributors did request Atten sahib to show a song and dance of MKG and Mrs. KG doing a song and dance around a bush in the rains but Atten sahib did not oblige. And the movie flopped in India.

Regards

Fissures in the Middle Tahmed sahib,

Why the "naked fakir" Gandhi remains a world figure while Jinnah is a nobody on the world stage.

That is becuase of the constant propaganda unleashed by GOI and becuase of Gandhi the movie.

But I dont think you are aware of the latest developments - Madame Tussaud's removed his statue from a hall where statesmen were placed and placed it in a lonely corner by a dust bin. And wikipdeia has included negative references to his role in SAf.

Btw, MAJ (pbuh) got more than 40% approval rating in India, where he has been systematically denigrated for ages.

Regards

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? Tahmed sahib,

Re: 185

Not at all, sir. It is very flattering to know that our neighbours still "value" our influence and legacies in spite of getting rid of us 60 years back.

Regards

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? Tahmed sahib,

the hindu mischief of the "caste system" has to some extent polluted islam

Caste system and suicide bombings (in NWFP) were all Hindoo customs imported into Pakistan by Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi at the behest of an Indian Hindoo leader who will remain unnamed!!!

Regards

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Tahmed sahib,

(the indian children's book flaunting hindu crap)

Obviously you didnt care to read enuff Indian children's book. The likes of Amar Chitra Katha glorify India's Muslim heritage as well. If you ever come to India I will gift you a few copies on people like Akbar, Sher Shah Suri, Razia Sultan, Chand Bibi etc.

Regards