The Nawaiwaqt Generation and the Power of No! yes cheema sahib, romair is known for making contradictory statements. It could not have been a iran-type revolution if it was led by "normal" pakistanis whatever that means so rather than using except, he could have used another part of speech. khair. . .

There has been no revolution through the ballot-box. Defeating PML-Q and the religious parties does not constitute a revolution. A revolution involves more than voting at the ballot-box. . . it is yet to come AND it will not be televised. :)

The Shah was not invited to stay in Amreeka, and I seriously doubt that Musharraf will either. I think Musharraf's life is at risk in Pakistan, but I do not think that Amreeka will save his ass. As for what Imran Khan says. . . *yawn* here is the thing, how does Musharraf quitting the presidency = the withdrawal of the army?

Romair's predictive powers are questionable, hasb-e-maamool. . . with Sharif and Zardari joining hands, it is more a matter of waiting and seeing what magic they create.

The Nawaiwaqt Generation and the Power of No! The definition of civil society according to the London School of Economics:

Civil society refers to the arena of uncoerced collective action around shared interests, purposes and values. In theory, its institutional forms are distinct from those of the state, family and market, though in practice, the boundaries between state, civil society, family and market are often complex, blurred and negotiated. Civil society commonly embraces a diversity of spaces, actors and institutional forms, varying in their degree of formality, autonomy and power. Civil societies are often populated by organizations such as registered charities, development non-governmental organizations, community groups, women's organizations, faith-based organizations, professional associations, trade unions, self-help groups, social movements, business associations, coalitions and advocacy groups

And what comprises "civil society" in Pakistan at this time?

The Nawaiwaqt Generation and the Power of No! I hope it does not come to what happened in Chile in 1973.

In the seventies, two papers were dropped in front of our house. One was The Pakistan Times, and one was Nawaiwaqt.

I will wait to read the responses to this, the anti-"Punjoos" will no doubt have plenty to say.

Is there more after this?

Student Politics in Pakistan: A Profile HaaN! khatm hui barish-e-sang is the one that Faiz wrote for Nasir, according to a later collection of his poems/ghazals. Thank you for reminding me. :)

I also wanted to note that while some people are wondering why certain groups were left out, this is still interesting for those of us who are clueless as to student participation in politics. I know that my late uncle was rather active in the '50's when he was at FC College.

Student Politics in Pakistan: A Profile Nadeem,

It was in the Lahore Fort where Hassan Nasir was tortured and executed.

I don't think I have come across that poem. Or it is not coming to mind at this time. Naz'm ka title kya hai?

Student Politics in Pakistan: A Profile Hassan Nasir is the one Faiz dedicated a poem to, whose Urdu title escapes me, but I believe the English translation is The rain of stones is finished. I think it is part of the naqsh-e-faryadi collection.

The Naval War College Bomb Blasts *sigh* the I don't give a damn how many of you die paki(stani) vs. (h)indian crap fest chapter 10 gazillion, 3 trillion, 2 billion, 1 million, and 13 thousand ad infinitum ad nauseam. the show where people just love to callously shoot their mouths off, since they cannot shoot each other at chowk.

intezaar farmaye. . .abhi bohat saare qistaiN baqi haiN!

The Naval War College Bomb Blasts The flames are all long gone
But the pain lingers on. . .

Pink Floyd - Goodbye Blue Sky

Pakistan, a Different Country! Re: # 262

Anil,

Fik'r not. It was not a matter of being hurt, but rather more exasperated.

Your Chowk interactions seem to have gone through somewhat of a transformation in the time that I was not here, if you are the same anil from somewhere in california, you used to either ignore the nasties, or respond in a more gentlemanly manner. I suppose like more and more of us, you have taken your gloves off.

And for the record, HP and I have exchanged not-so-niceties, particularly when I called him on his words for certain Indians here at Chowk. That seems like a long time ago. (and not much has changed) We have also had very civil and enjoyable exchanges regarding languages, among other things. So in my opinion, there has been a balancing of sorts in how we communicate here at Chowk. Yes, I have been a "victim" of sorts of his intolerance as you call it here at Chowk, but I have moved on. And I realize that is not always possible.

Intolerance yahaaN donoN taraf barabar. And the tolerant become intolerant themselves.

As for Masadi, his intolerance and immature tareeqa of ending a conversation is insupportable. I will say this though, even as much as I have ridiculed him, he has never been abusive towards me, and I cannot say that for some of the "tolerant" folk here at Chowk.

So yeah, I do know what it feels like to be insulted by HP and others here at Chowk. But to use the word "victim?" That would be giving them the power to dwell on that. No one here at Chowk deserves that kind of power.

Pakistan, a Different Country! Anil,

How does Masadi's reading what I write, aur uss pe amal karne ki koshish constitute hiding behind my skirt? I would take offense to that remark myself 'cept there is enough in this world to take offense to, and taking you on would not be worth it.

***
Masadi,

Seriously? I want to know what books you are reading, and how you determined that Malcolm X sold his soul? Maybe I should ask you this: What do you mean precisely when you say that someone has sold his soul to the devil? I think that it rather an extremist position to take, and a hateful one as well to equate the "white man" with "the devil." I am not wiping the white man's ass here, and yeah, there is still a lot that Amreeka and Bartania are culpable for, among others, but come on Masadi, how do you presume to attack the humanity of others here with such extremist positions? And what have you got to say for those white folk who reject the continuing lust for power, and war, and are critical of their governments, corporations etcetera etcetera etcetera.

I am not going to continue this discussion here, out of respect for HP, but I am curious about what you are reading about Malcolm X because what you said is just out of this world. . .it just boggles the mind. And I have not had my morning coffee yet.

Pakistan, a Different Country! Masadi,

Morons do not need to be called morons at every corner. That does not make you any more superior than they are. Morons need to be ignored. Something most of us here at Chowk have a lot of trouble with is ignoring.

I do not know where and when this feud between you and some of the Chowkies began, but if you think the best treatment is to continuously call them on their "moronic" behavior, are you not unwittingly giving them the power to act that way? It will be a vicious cycle, more or less, where "abuse" is the norm. That already happens more than enough here. It is why some of us choose not to interact as much anymore. I am not defending Hamid or Tauheed here. I just think you all are giving each other a little too much importance, aur issues gaye bhaR maiN.

While I am here, let me ask you this. Do you think Malcolm X sold his soul when his views were changing, even his views regarding the white man?

P.S. And Hamid before you even ask me what is wrong with me, aap iss muaamle maiN sahi baat nahiN kar rahe haiN. Go back to your bar stories if you must, but please stop riling Masadi, among others regarding his tenure at Chowk. You might not be 100% serious about this, but not everyone has your sense of err, umm, humor.

Now back to our regular programming. HP, I look forward to reading more. . .

Voting For Change thank you ali. coming from your ass, oh a thousand apologies, mouth, I would expect nothing less.

buhbye

Voting For Change as usual:

pakistani = jihadi

indian = hindutvadi

No sign of progress or change indicated from this election. Definitely no progress here at Chowk.

arjun, hai hai, when did you become a communalist? I thought you were just a freaking patriot!

Ironies never cease.

At Last...Nationalism at Last how does tauheed get accused of being MQM or a musharraf supporting bigot because he says that nationalism is animal behavior? goodness, I know that we make some awful stretches here but more and more it is out of nothing.

Michael Ignatieff wrote a book called Blood and Belonging in which he discusses that while nationalism can be a constructive uniting force, in the hands of authoritarian regimes, in its extreme form it can be brutal and oppressive. The break-up of Yugoslavia was in large part due to a nationalism that was not inclusive of all ethnic groups. Nationalism in this sense has been the cause of more strife in the past century. . . if this is what Tauheed is referring to. . .

February 18th, 2008-Election Day Re: # 55

good grief feroz, now you've done it! have you completely missed out on masadi's complaints of being rejected by the chowk editors? now he just likes to tell most of us to go ---- ourselves. that is what his criticism has devolved to.

Pakistan Elections 2008 - An analysis Zeemax,

This is the last time I will be interacting with you. (You're welcome) So listen carefully. I was expressing my opinion by questioning the relation of the word "freedom" in the word freedom fighters to suicide bombers. I do believe that suicide bombers are murderers. And I have said that about anyone who kills regardless of religion or ethnicity. I am free to express my opinion, just as you are free to express what you always do. I do not call you a maadarchod for doing so. So patronize me all you want, by referring to my bimbohood, it really is no skin off my nose, and it just makes you look bad. And yes, zeemax, I do know something of what is going on in Pakistan. I am not completely cut off from it as much as you and your ilk would like to cut me out from it.

Now baraye meh'rbaani do not interact with me again. Good luck.