Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion cb #216 you are entitled to your conclusions. to reach sensible conclusions, it is a good idea to pay attention to the realities. i presented some realities to you in #208. You may challenge them if you think anything i said misrepresents reality, but you should not ignore them.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion hamidm #217 i am well aware of your new-found gora status (as certified by the traffic cop!) and your resulting delight in referring to Pakistanis as "unwashed masses".

When you have something new to say, I will be glad to respond.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion #214 i am quite clear in what i am referring to - so please dont come up with creative interpretations of what i am referring to.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion #212 dont waste your time or mine arguing with me, cheema sahib. just reflect on what I wrote in #208 and reflect on why your response was does not befit an educated man. Let me make try and help you a bit: An educated man takes facts into account. An educated man does not close his eyes and claim the "unwashed masses" (Pakistan, iraq) only deserve a dictator.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion cheema sahib: and if you think "hypocrisy" is a strong word (and I am sorry to have to use it), please also note your ignoring obvious facts that I mentioned in #208 that you ignored. And simply preferred to make your stupid put-down of iraqis.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion #209 cheema sahib: this contemptuous reference to other people (iraqis in this case) does not suit you. Please leave this for lesser individuals than yourself.

if you consider Saddam a "Great Hero", why did you move to Australia (where they dont believe in "Great Leaders") rather than to Iraq under Saddam? This hypocrisy does not suit you either.

Perhaps you are indeed a lesser individual than I think..hmmmmmm....

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion #205 majumdar: under Saddam, a million men were killed in ten years of what came to be known as the "War of the Incompetents" that he started. More were killed in his attempted takeover of Kuwait. Under Saddam, a half million Iraqi children died of starvation as Saddam (under the nose of the UN) misdirected funds from "Oil for Food" and towards "Oil for Saddam's Palaces". It was even dangerous to lose a football game (Saddam's Royal Prince Uday would see to that!). I could go on...

So, granted that Bush made a mess in Iraq. But rest assured that the low bar set by Saddam assures that US intervention in Iraq makes it a better place for Iraqis than anything under Saddam. And, with the US correcting its initial mistakes (notably by taking the wind out of the insurgency by bringing ex-baathists and sunnis back into the fold), with the Iraqi government in great financial shape ($79 billion in revenue - and so much for the bs about "US wants to steal iraqi oil"!) there is every reason to be hopeful of a better future for Iraq in the years ahead as a result of US interventin.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion masadi #194 there is always hope..inshallah one day you too will be able to think straight...just dont give up on head shrinks to quickly.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion masadi: you need to get your head checked.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion ferozk #149 Greetings to you too, my friend.

I dont totally agree with your diagnosis that "..the militant perception sees the Pakistani as the last and final obstacle in the defeat of the United States as the world's last remaining superpower." While no doubt they are "khar damagh", from all indications it seems the militants' goals are somewhat less pie-in-the-sky. Their goal, it seems clear, is to carve out a piece of Pakistan for themselves. After all, an illiterate man can do a lot worse than become the King of Swat. Cut through the chase, cut through the big talk of "sharia rule", and that is all it is - a grab for power. And for this purpose they hope to scare the government into exchanging "land for peace".

You continue: " Pakistani military has to be destroyed (it seems from the rest of the sentence that you mean "neutralized") and if it cannot be done militarily, it will tried with a public relations campaign of intimidation and making linkages between the suffering of the Pakistanis and their government's continued operations inside FATA. "

This is exactly the conclusion that the militant's would like the military to draw, if the above diagnosis of their goals is correct. This is appeasement of the bully, to put it bluntly. This policy of appeasement has been followed by Musharraf. Examples of his appeasement include 1. acceptance of open bullying of the local Islamabad population by militants of lal masjid and permitting them to impose themselves as the lawmakers and judges in the capital of Pakistan; 2. "deals" with central asian and arab fugitives hiding out in fata; 3. permitting "sharia law" - a fig leaf for handing over a part of Pakistan as the price for being left alone.

This appeasement has not worked - it merely permitted militants to increase power during musharraf's disastrous 8 year dictatorship. Nor will this appeasement work in future. The only solution, my friend, is to face the reality - Pakistan is under attack by an enemy that uses "Islam" as a fig leaf to hide his true and ugly face.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion HP: Let us just agree to disagree then. Good night.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion Mr.Masadi #128 a copy of the Quran can be owned. like any other book.

And the bottom line is - it is safer for a muslim to pray in a mosque in the US than in Pakistan, going by any objective standard. So, what does that tell you of the big picture? Please dont confuse friends and enemies. Pakistan does not have that luxury. No people have that luxury. That is all I ask, as I write this final post for the day.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion #123 Mr. Masadi: you are playing with words again. Please get serious, otherwise people will think you are Hamidm.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion Mr.Masadi: #120 please dont play with words - of course it was a copy of the Quran, what else is he supposed to have - the original recording on You Tube of Gabriel talking to the prophet?

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion #117 mr masadi. please google on "US embassy burnt, Islamabad, Zia bicycling" or something like that. I have to be off now. If you have trouble finding it, remind me tomorrow and we'll talk.

Hotel Babylon: The Marriot Hotel Explosion HP: In other words, you failed to find a link to deny what I said about the distinction between mainstream republicans and pat robertson (Goode is the exception that proves the rule).

And you may wish to note that Ellison ended up taking the oath on the Quran. And that the Quran belonged to one of the founding fathers of the US, Thomas Jefferson. That is the bigger picture that I am pointing to.