150 Years: Recounting Untold History
Wah Wah Qasmi sahib. Amaan learn something from our predicament from Islamo-fascism before launching this far flung Musalmaan heroes from the Past.
It is so sad that you mixed a forward thinker Sir Syed with bunch of moronic Mullahs. The Mullahs of Hind (Indian subcontinent) have consistently played the most dubious, and divisive role throughout the history. Sure they got some leverage when it comes to spreading anarchy. Thanks to the modern politics, they were almost dead.
It was Gandhi`s mistake to resurrect politically dead Mullahs and thus bringing bearded havoc to the ordinary masses of Indian subcontinent. Poor Gandhi was so simple or ignorant that he won`t listen to protestation of Lala Lajpat Rai, or Jinnah, or Ch. Zafar Hussain. These eminent politicians warned Gandhi not to invite these Mullahs into Political disco party.
But Gandhi didn`t listen. The result was the terrible destruction of the political discotheque and these mean Mullahs even stole the big shiny ball of poor Gandhi.
Azad and other Congressi Mullahs were all on the take from the ``big bad`` Hindu businessmen. And so were the Johar brothers.
However the UP Muslims have a tendency to ignore all that Mullahtic fanaticism and start singing qawwali of one Mullah or the other.
Heck you don`t have to go back 150 years. Just see what this Mullah Lal Din of Lal Masjid is doing right now burning videos and launching attacks using those stick wielding Ninja turtles.
Or let`s see what the Mullahs did to the poor minorities of Pakistan. Mullah Mawdoodi`s attack on Pakistani-Ahmadis, and later attacks on Pakistani-Shias (from Karachi to Parachinar), and death to so many Pakistani-Christians are clearly proof that Mullahs just know one thing. Anarchy, looting, and burning.
So Qasmi sahib, you are fully entitled to live in Mullah`s paradise (read fools Jannat). However do not expect the rest of us to follow you. As you may be a staunch Mullah but you ain`t no Pide Piper.
Posted by
taikonaut
Apr 27, 2007 04:19 pm
Fat Mullahs and even fatter Fatwas. Wah Wah Qasmi sahib. Amaan learn something from our predicament from Islamo-fascism before launching this far flung Musalmaan heroes from the Past.
It is so sad that you mixed a forward thinker Sir Syed with bunch of moronic Mullahs. The Mullahs of Hind (Indian subcontinent) have consistently played the most dubious, and divisive role throughout the history. Sure they got some leverage when it comes to spreading anarchy. Thanks to the modern politics, they were almost dead.
It was Gandhi`s mistake to resurrect politically dead Mullahs and thus bringing bearded havoc to the ordinary masses of Indian subcontinent. Poor Gandhi was so simple or ignorant that he won`t listen to protestation of Lala Lajpat Rai, or Jinnah, or Ch. Zafar Hussain. These eminent politicians warned Gandhi not to invite these Mullahs into Political disco party.
But Gandhi didn`t listen. The result was the terrible destruction of the political discotheque and these mean Mullahs even stole the big shiny ball of poor Gandhi.
Azad and other Congressi Mullahs were all on the take from the ``big bad`` Hindu businessmen. And so were the Johar brothers.
However the UP Muslims have a tendency to ignore all that Mullahtic fanaticism and start singing qawwali of one Mullah or the other.
Heck you don`t have to go back 150 years. Just see what this Mullah Lal Din of Lal Masjid is doing right now burning videos and launching attacks using those stick wielding Ninja turtles.
Or let`s see what the Mullahs did to the poor minorities of Pakistan. Mullah Mawdoodi`s attack on Pakistani-Ahmadis, and later attacks on Pakistani-Shias (from Karachi to Parachinar), and death to so many Pakistani-Christians are clearly proof that Mullahs just know one thing. Anarchy, looting, and burning.
So Qasmi sahib, you are fully entitled to live in Mullah`s paradise (read fools Jannat). However do not expect the rest of us to follow you. As you may be a staunch Mullah but you ain`t no Pide Piper.
What Ails the BPO Industry in Pakistan?
#63 by bulleya on January 30, 2007 4:50pm PT
...yes, these months were quite interesting.....pakistan has had a boom in two areas: banking and telecom (and real estate and stock market, but those are a bit different).....
That`s correct!
#63 by bulleya on January 30, 2007 4:50pm PT
.......for some reason, software development never took off......i think the reason is the incorrect business model that i mentioned earlier........pakistan should discard off-shore development now......it is a lost field......why would citibank give a contract to an unknown pakistani company, when it can give it to wipro?.......
That`s totally wrong. Without naming names, one of the major US company had bad experience with an Indi-company. On the insistence of their division-chief (of Pak origin) they sent the same contract to Pakistan. The result of $million business for Pak, and the same company sent more work from other divisions.
As long as Pakistani Americans are buried deep in Islamism, Pakistani companies will suffer. Wipro only wins if the American division-chief vouches for them. The sheer numbers of pro-West Indian-Americans win business for Wipro and co.
#63 by bulleya on January 30, 2007 4:50pm PT
.......the correct model is to concentrate on the domestic market and on indian (and chinese etc.) spillover....
Domestic market in Desi countries (both Indi and Pak) is geared towards European-style in-house development instead of US-UK style outsourcing. Almost all the local CIOs (or equivalent) want to hire people and keep them under their thumb. Unfortunately the top IT-talent is not willing to suffer the baboo-style work environment.
The second issue with local market (or Indi-Cheeni market) is the margin. It becomes very hard for local companies to bid at rock bottom prices and still retain the talent pool.
How would you feel if you are suddenly moved from working at a high-paying State of Maryland project to a 1/20th pay while working at State of Sindh project? I bet the next day you will get PIA ticket out of the country.
The same is true with Indi or Cheeni market. Their own labor is so cheep, that Paks have hard time bidding for such projects.
#63 by bulleya on January 30, 2007 4:50pm PT
....i have come up with a solution to this, which i am presenting to an indian company with whom i may be doing some contracts soon.......let`s see how it goes......
Best wishes!
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 30, 2007 08:23 pm
#63 by bulleya on January 30, 2007 4:50pm PT
...yes, these months were quite interesting.....pakistan has had a boom in two areas: banking and telecom (and real estate and stock market, but those are a bit different).....
That`s correct!
#63 by bulleya on January 30, 2007 4:50pm PT
.......for some reason, software development never took off......i think the reason is the incorrect business model that i mentioned earlier........pakistan should discard off-shore development now......it is a lost field......why would citibank give a contract to an unknown pakistani company, when it can give it to wipro?.......
That`s totally wrong. Without naming names, one of the major US company had bad experience with an Indi-company. On the insistence of their division-chief (of Pak origin) they sent the same contract to Pakistan. The result of $million business for Pak, and the same company sent more work from other divisions.
As long as Pakistani Americans are buried deep in Islamism, Pakistani companies will suffer. Wipro only wins if the American division-chief vouches for them. The sheer numbers of pro-West Indian-Americans win business for Wipro and co.
#63 by bulleya on January 30, 2007 4:50pm PT
.......the correct model is to concentrate on the domestic market and on indian (and chinese etc.) spillover....
Domestic market in Desi countries (both Indi and Pak) is geared towards European-style in-house development instead of US-UK style outsourcing. Almost all the local CIOs (or equivalent) want to hire people and keep them under their thumb. Unfortunately the top IT-talent is not willing to suffer the baboo-style work environment.
The second issue with local market (or Indi-Cheeni market) is the margin. It becomes very hard for local companies to bid at rock bottom prices and still retain the talent pool.
How would you feel if you are suddenly moved from working at a high-paying State of Maryland project to a 1/20th pay while working at State of Sindh project? I bet the next day you will get PIA ticket out of the country.
The same is true with Indi or Cheeni market. Their own labor is so cheep, that Paks have hard time bidding for such projects.
#63 by bulleya on January 30, 2007 4:50pm PT
....i have come up with a solution to this, which i am presenting to an indian company with whom i may be doing some contracts soon.......let`s see how it goes......
Best wishes!
What Ails the BPO Industry in Pakistan?
Re: # 26 by arjun2 on January 30, 2007 8:05am PT
Call me a shudra, call me a paki...I don`t really care..I don`t give other people the power to offend me...
Well do you think we Pakistanis would give rats @r$$ as to what an Indie-lowlife is doing just to offend us?
Bablu Mian! Use the same standard for others that you want to use for yourself! Kapeesh!
Your raves and rants against Pakistan are $imply $tupid. I am glad I know so many Indian colleagues who are simply marvelous as people, and great intellectuals who appreciate Pakistan and Pakistaniat.
So you pseudo-patriots from both sides of the border! it is time to quit maligning the other side. We both have our good things and some not-so good things. Why to focus only on the not-so good things.
It is time to offer an apology from our side if any Indie got offended.
Peace,
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 30, 2007 08:35 am
Re: # 26 by arjun2 on January 30, 2007 8:05am PT
Call me a shudra, call me a paki...I don`t really care..I don`t give other people the power to offend me...
Well do you think we Pakistanis would give rats @r$$ as to what an Indie-lowlife is doing just to offend us?
Bablu Mian! Use the same standard for others that you want to use for yourself! Kapeesh!
Your raves and rants against Pakistan are $imply $tupid. I am glad I know so many Indian colleagues who are simply marvelous as people, and great intellectuals who appreciate Pakistan and Pakistaniat.
So you pseudo-patriots from both sides of the border! it is time to quit maligning the other side. We both have our good things and some not-so good things. Why to focus only on the not-so good things.
It is time to offer an apology from our side if any Indie got offended.
Peace,
What Ails the BPO Industry in Pakistan?
Re: # 18 by zeemax on January 29, 2007 11:38pm PT
Pakistan never focused on the lowly BPO as a matter of industrial policy.
Brother zeemax, Pak-government (or Indi, or Cheeni governments) is on the receiving end of a complex process called ``outsourcing``. As the name suggests that the process starts when some rich entity located in America ``sources`` or ``contracts`` out some of their work to a cheaper and reasonably good company ``located`` ``out of direct control``. That company can be in America or outside: it doesn`t matter.
Let me restate that the outsourcing process starts from the ``rich entity`` willing to farm out their less than desired work. So there must be some ``trustworthy`` person(s) affiliated with that ``rich entity`` who is willing to put their respect, and name on the line in order to make a buck and take the work to their home country.
Here are the quick comparisons!
For BPOs, Indian techies in America made it happen for India.
For manufacturing, the Chinese-American entrepreneurs made it happen for China.
For IT field in general, Irish-Americans took $billion business to Ireland way back in 1975.
Similarly, for any outsourcing, American-Pakistanis must start the process to make it happen for Pakistan.
Americans do not care about demo-Krazy in India, or Kommie-kermits of China, or the exploding bombs in Belfast. As long as you guarantee that the job would get done, you get the contract.
If you don`t have your strong advocates in America, you can do whatever as a government of a poor country, you won`t get a diddly squat from America.
Bottom line is that Pakistani Americans should get out of Arab anarchists` behinds and start campaigning for outsourcing to Pakistan in any field possible. Look around and see where Uncle Sam needs your services, and then set up the institutions to provide those service. That`s all.
You tell Pak government that Americans are willing to send $billion for ABC service, and you would see the laws and conditions in Pakistan change the next day.
Indie-land used to be commie land. Indi-Americans showed the $$ and see how quickly the laws changed in that commie-land.
Cheeni-land used to be even worse commie-land. Cheeni-Americans showed the $$, and see how quickly the laws changed in China.
Irish-land loved to do the bomb blasts all over UK. When Irish-Americans showed the $$, then see how quickly IRA made sure nothing bad happens to the American investors.
Hope these examples from Indi-land, Cheeni-land, and IRA-land help you understand the concept of ``out`` and ``sourcing``.
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 30, 2007 08:24 am
Re: # 18 by zeemax on January 29, 2007 11:38pm PT
Pakistan never focused on the lowly BPO as a matter of industrial policy.
Brother zeemax, Pak-government (or Indi, or Cheeni governments) is on the receiving end of a complex process called ``outsourcing``. As the name suggests that the process starts when some rich entity located in America ``sources`` or ``contracts`` out some of their work to a cheaper and reasonably good company ``located`` ``out of direct control``. That company can be in America or outside: it doesn`t matter.
Let me restate that the outsourcing process starts from the ``rich entity`` willing to farm out their less than desired work. So there must be some ``trustworthy`` person(s) affiliated with that ``rich entity`` who is willing to put their respect, and name on the line in order to make a buck and take the work to their home country.
Here are the quick comparisons!
For BPOs, Indian techies in America made it happen for India.
For manufacturing, the Chinese-American entrepreneurs made it happen for China.
For IT field in general, Irish-Americans took $billion business to Ireland way back in 1975.
Similarly, for any outsourcing, American-Pakistanis must start the process to make it happen for Pakistan.
Americans do not care about demo-Krazy in India, or Kommie-kermits of China, or the exploding bombs in Belfast. As long as you guarantee that the job would get done, you get the contract.
If you don`t have your strong advocates in America, you can do whatever as a government of a poor country, you won`t get a diddly squat from America.
Bottom line is that Pakistani Americans should get out of Arab anarchists` behinds and start campaigning for outsourcing to Pakistan in any field possible. Look around and see where Uncle Sam needs your services, and then set up the institutions to provide those service. That`s all.
You tell Pak government that Americans are willing to send $billion for ABC service, and you would see the laws and conditions in Pakistan change the next day.
Indie-land used to be commie land. Indi-Americans showed the $$ and see how quickly the laws changed in that commie-land.
Cheeni-land used to be even worse commie-land. Cheeni-Americans showed the $$, and see how quickly the laws changed in China.
Irish-land loved to do the bomb blasts all over UK. When Irish-Americans showed the $$, then see how quickly IRA made sure nothing bad happens to the American investors.
Hope these examples from Indi-land, Cheeni-land, and IRA-land help you understand the concept of ``out`` and ``sourcing``.
What Ails the BPO Industry in Pakistan?
Re: # 17 by arjun2 on January 29, 2007 9:54pm PT
Your expertise is in BPO...Blowing up People Outsourcing...The arab islamofascists have outsourced jihad to you..in that, you`re world leaders..
Bottom line: You tried as hard as you could to get into real IT, as opposed to call center work...and you are failures at that...It ain`t as simple as ``if those hindoos can do it, surely we genetically superior pakis can do it in spades``...but the 72 million/yr figure should already tell you that...
Arjun Bhai, you have a point there. Unfortunately there are many Arab-slave Mullahtics ready to blow up the future of Pakistan.
However painting the whole Pakistan as bad, is simply not fair. I mean we all know Shudras exist in Indi-land. However many of those unfortunate untouchables made it out of their misery by moving to the West.
May Bhagwan give them peace and prosperity to every untouchable.
Still the question for you is! Would you be OK that people started calling you Shudra Arjun?
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 30, 2007 07:59 am
Re: # 17 by arjun2 on January 29, 2007 9:54pm PT
Your expertise is in BPO...Blowing up People Outsourcing...The arab islamofascists have outsourced jihad to you..in that, you`re world leaders..
Bottom line: You tried as hard as you could to get into real IT, as opposed to call center work...and you are failures at that...It ain`t as simple as ``if those hindoos can do it, surely we genetically superior pakis can do it in spades``...but the 72 million/yr figure should already tell you that...
Arjun Bhai, you have a point there. Unfortunately there are many Arab-slave Mullahtics ready to blow up the future of Pakistan.
However painting the whole Pakistan as bad, is simply not fair. I mean we all know Shudras exist in Indi-land. However many of those unfortunate untouchables made it out of their misery by moving to the West.
May Bhagwan give them peace and prosperity to every untouchable.
Still the question for you is! Would you be OK that people started calling you Shudra Arjun?
What Ails the BPO Industry in Pakistan?
This analysis is good. However any effort to compare Pakistan`s BPO sector with that of India`s must be done in historical perspective. Check out this essay:
http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00005250&channel=civic%20center
India is uniquely positioned to support BPO because of some important factors:
1. Indian history of providing office services to the West since 1650s.
2. Indian-American community`s placement in America`s corporate structure
3. Pro-West attitudes at grass-root level of India
India`s BPO sector is unique, just like China`s manufacturing sector. No matter how hard India tries, it can never compete with Chinese factory output. The same thing is true for Pakistan. We cannot compete with India in BPO sector. Kawwa Chalaa Huns ki chaal ..........
This is the era of specializations and guarantee of ``getting the job done``. How many American-Pakistanis are begging American-corporations to outsource BPO services to Pakistan. My answer is ``not many``. In fact American-Pakistanis are brown-nosing Palestinians and the sundry Arab fascists. The result is the abysmal and pathetic attitudes among American-Pakistanis.
All is not lost though! Pakistan as a region has specialized in providing defense services to the West. Zia-ul Haq`s role in destroying anti-Jordan Palestinian militants is now a part of our history. Things in the Middle East haven`t changed much since the Palestinians received drubbing at the hands of Pakistani soldiers or the way our soldiers killed the Saudis who captured Kaaba.
We can either step up to the plate and get the ``job done`` by bringing order and peace to the Middle East, or be sent to the ``good-for-nothing`` ba-ba blacksheep of the region. We must capitalize on our ``expertise`` to earn money. The decision is ours. ..
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 29, 2007 09:44 pm
This analysis is good. However any effort to compare Pakistan`s BPO sector with that of India`s must be done in historical perspective. Check out this essay:
http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00005250&channel=civic%20center
India is uniquely positioned to support BPO because of some important factors:
1. Indian history of providing office services to the West since 1650s.
2. Indian-American community`s placement in America`s corporate structure
3. Pro-West attitudes at grass-root level of India
India`s BPO sector is unique, just like China`s manufacturing sector. No matter how hard India tries, it can never compete with Chinese factory output. The same thing is true for Pakistan. We cannot compete with India in BPO sector. Kawwa Chalaa Huns ki chaal ..........
This is the era of specializations and guarantee of ``getting the job done``. How many American-Pakistanis are begging American-corporations to outsource BPO services to Pakistan. My answer is ``not many``. In fact American-Pakistanis are brown-nosing Palestinians and the sundry Arab fascists. The result is the abysmal and pathetic attitudes among American-Pakistanis.
All is not lost though! Pakistan as a region has specialized in providing defense services to the West. Zia-ul Haq`s role in destroying anti-Jordan Palestinian militants is now a part of our history. Things in the Middle East haven`t changed much since the Palestinians received drubbing at the hands of Pakistani soldiers or the way our soldiers killed the Saudis who captured Kaaba.
We can either step up to the plate and get the ``job done`` by bringing order and peace to the Middle East, or be sent to the ``good-for-nothing`` ba-ba blacksheep of the region. We must capitalize on our ``expertise`` to earn money. The decision is ours. ..
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
1. I agree that League leaders never understood the gravity of the situation.
2. The blame goes squarely on the shoulders of Muslims in Punjab.
3. However the rioting in Pindi region was much less compared to the one in Bihar and UP. If Biharis and UPiets could kill 10,000`s in 1940s, Punjab in comparison was a peaceful place.
4. Again Punjabi leadership (Congress, Unionist, and Leagures) were all $tupid not to recognize the looming danger of their politics
5. League had won 86 seats in the previous elections. But Jenkins allowed Congress + unionist party to keep the League out of power. Once Unionist CM resigned, League was simply asking for their right.
Hindsight is 20/20. League in Punjab should have been wiser and more diplomatic in dealing with minorities. However Punjab Congress and Unionist party were even worse. So your quoations of Jenkins may work nicely on those who are unaware of history. However these short snippets are missing the big picture.
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 14, 2007 08:31 pm
Re: # 133 Dm / Sadna1. I agree that League leaders never understood the gravity of the situation.
2. The blame goes squarely on the shoulders of Muslims in Punjab.
3. However the rioting in Pindi region was much less compared to the one in Bihar and UP. If Biharis and UPiets could kill 10,000`s in 1940s, Punjab in comparison was a peaceful place.
4. Again Punjabi leadership (Congress, Unionist, and Leagures) were all $tupid not to recognize the looming danger of their politics
5. League had won 86 seats in the previous elections. But Jenkins allowed Congress + unionist party to keep the League out of power. Once Unionist CM resigned, League was simply asking for their right.
Hindsight is 20/20. League in Punjab should have been wiser and more diplomatic in dealing with minorities. However Punjab Congress and Unionist party were even worse. So your quoations of Jenkins may work nicely on those who are unaware of history. However these short snippets are missing the big picture.
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
Re: # 126 by dost-mittar on January 14, 2007 10:14am PT
tahmed32#108:
``But I have no reason to assume that this was a deliberate policy of ``ethnic cleansing`` on the part of either Nehru or Jinnah
1. Jinnah is on record pleading with Governor Jenkins of Punjab on this issue.
2. Jinnah wanted at least 50,000 troops deployed.
3. Unfortunately Punjab (East and West combined) was a vast area and only 5000 troops were deployed.
4. Home minister Patel had authority to get things moving on law enforcement agencies.
5. Everyone including Nehru, Patel, Gandhi, and Jinnah thought that Pakistan won`t survive for more than a year (2 year was tops).
6. Knowing #5 Nehru and Patel thought to push the process a little and bombed the Dehli-Lahore train filled with Muslim Baboos.
#5 started the process that ended up in cleansing minorities on both side of Punjab border. What a shame.
Most of the cruel deed was done by the low level Leagures, Congressis, and Akalis. However the responsibility was squarely on the shoulders of central government in Dehli i.e. Mountbatten, Nehru, and Patel who all controlled law-enforcement agencies. They all messed up. Jinnah is to blame for one thing. That he didn`t fire this namak-haram Leaguer named Shaukat (from Lahore).
May Allah Bhagwan and God all save us from such evil deeds in future.
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 14, 2007 11:08 am
Re: # 126 by dost-mittar on January 14, 2007 10:14am PT
tahmed32#108:
``But I have no reason to assume that this was a deliberate policy of ``ethnic cleansing`` on the part of either Nehru or Jinnah
1. Jinnah is on record pleading with Governor Jenkins of Punjab on this issue.
2. Jinnah wanted at least 50,000 troops deployed.
3. Unfortunately Punjab (East and West combined) was a vast area and only 5000 troops were deployed.
4. Home minister Patel had authority to get things moving on law enforcement agencies.
5. Everyone including Nehru, Patel, Gandhi, and Jinnah thought that Pakistan won`t survive for more than a year (2 year was tops).
6. Knowing #5 Nehru and Patel thought to push the process a little and bombed the Dehli-Lahore train filled with Muslim Baboos.
#5 started the process that ended up in cleansing minorities on both side of Punjab border. What a shame.
Most of the cruel deed was done by the low level Leagures, Congressis, and Akalis. However the responsibility was squarely on the shoulders of central government in Dehli i.e. Mountbatten, Nehru, and Patel who all controlled law-enforcement agencies. They all messed up. Jinnah is to blame for one thing. That he didn`t fire this namak-haram Leaguer named Shaukat (from Lahore).
May Allah Bhagwan and God all save us from such evil deeds in future.
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
Re: # 74 by chaltahai on January 13, 2007 7:05am PT
The reality is that..pakistanis do not have the stomach for pain.
Pakistanis may have lower threshold of pain (and that explains why Indian masses are so pliant and subservient).
However Pakistanis for sure do not have stomach for instability and anarchy in the name of demo-krazy.
Looting by BB or Nawaz is not an issue. The issue is what they gave in return. Nawaz could have a billions. Heck his family is one of the richest in Pakistan. However people do want prosperity and stability in return for allowing BB or Nawaz to have their cake.
Pakistanis do not want to see begger-look-alike leaders either. So anyone who wants to be a leader must be smartly dressed like Jinnah, Ayub, Musharraf, the younger ZAB etc.
BB can be good leader the day she gets rid of that shenanigan do-patta. Nawaz can`t be smartly dressed, so he must be replaced by his younger brother Shehbaz.
Re: # 74 by chaltahai on January 13, 2007 7:05am PT
.democracy is like evolution, perfected and bettered over time.
Depends. In anglo-sexon societies democracy is largely evolutionary. However Germans and French got through a lot of bloody ``revolutions``.
Re: # 74 by chaltahai on January 13, 2007 7:05am PT
Giving up and throwing your hands up..is a sign of a weak spined people.
For Indian style demo-Krazy you do need weak spine-d and meek people.
For Pakistan we need strong willed ``pro-West`` and ``pro-defense`` civilian leaders.
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 13, 2007 07:39 am
Re: # 74 by chaltahai on January 13, 2007 7:05am PT
The reality is that..pakistanis do not have the stomach for pain.
Pakistanis may have lower threshold of pain (and that explains why Indian masses are so pliant and subservient).
However Pakistanis for sure do not have stomach for instability and anarchy in the name of demo-krazy.
Looting by BB or Nawaz is not an issue. The issue is what they gave in return. Nawaz could have a billions. Heck his family is one of the richest in Pakistan. However people do want prosperity and stability in return for allowing BB or Nawaz to have their cake.
Pakistanis do not want to see begger-look-alike leaders either. So anyone who wants to be a leader must be smartly dressed like Jinnah, Ayub, Musharraf, the younger ZAB etc.
BB can be good leader the day she gets rid of that shenanigan do-patta. Nawaz can`t be smartly dressed, so he must be replaced by his younger brother Shehbaz.
Re: # 74 by chaltahai on January 13, 2007 7:05am PT
.democracy is like evolution, perfected and bettered over time.
Depends. In anglo-sexon societies democracy is largely evolutionary. However Germans and French got through a lot of bloody ``revolutions``.
Re: # 74 by chaltahai on January 13, 2007 7:05am PT
Giving up and throwing your hands up..is a sign of a weak spined people.
For Indian style demo-Krazy you do need weak spine-d and meek people.
For Pakistan we need strong willed ``pro-West`` and ``pro-defense`` civilian leaders.
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
Re: # 68by anil on January 13, 2007 4:25am PT
How critical is secular democracy in Pakistan?
Democracy is inherently secular. Mixing Quran or Geeta or Bible with the concept of democracy is the biggest joke. That is why Gandhi, Azad, or Mawdoodi were all frauds in the name of democracy.
Why you may ask! Democracy means give and take, make deals. When you bring Quran, Geeta, or Bible, the whole concept of give and take goes out of the window.
Jinnah was among the few who didn`t bring Quran, Roja, and Hujj into his speeches. In fact he openly showed his disgust for the Mullah rules. He used to hold luncheons during Ramjan, and offer other anti-Mullah ``stuff`` at his parties.
Re: # 68by anil on January 13, 2007 4:25am PT
What would otherwise be a destablizing diversity in India, became the strongest glue to hold democracy together.
The glue that hold India together is colored with blood of its riots (babri, 84-Dilli), and military ops (Kashmir, naga, nixel, and blue-star).
However the ``stickiness`` of the glue comes from ``subservient`` attitude among Hindu population and the money of ``pro-West industrialists and businessmen``.
In Pakistan we tried to use the a glue similar to Indian version and colored it red with blood of bengalis, balochis, and Mohajirs.
However Pakistani glue lacks ``stickiness`` due to the absence of ``subservient`` attitudes among its masses, and we lack critical mass of ``pro-West industrialist and businessmen``.
Army thus becomes a temporary source of power that forces people together. Unfortunately this is a band-aid solution. Hope one of these days our Industrialists would force pro-West politicians and policies. Only then you will see a stable and sustainable democratic system in Pakistan.
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 13, 2007 07:01 am
Re: # 68by anil on January 13, 2007 4:25am PT
How critical is secular democracy in Pakistan?
Democracy is inherently secular. Mixing Quran or Geeta or Bible with the concept of democracy is the biggest joke. That is why Gandhi, Azad, or Mawdoodi were all frauds in the name of democracy.
Why you may ask! Democracy means give and take, make deals. When you bring Quran, Geeta, or Bible, the whole concept of give and take goes out of the window.
Jinnah was among the few who didn`t bring Quran, Roja, and Hujj into his speeches. In fact he openly showed his disgust for the Mullah rules. He used to hold luncheons during Ramjan, and offer other anti-Mullah ``stuff`` at his parties.
Re: # 68by anil on January 13, 2007 4:25am PT
What would otherwise be a destablizing diversity in India, became the strongest glue to hold democracy together.
The glue that hold India together is colored with blood of its riots (babri, 84-Dilli), and military ops (Kashmir, naga, nixel, and blue-star).
However the ``stickiness`` of the glue comes from ``subservient`` attitude among Hindu population and the money of ``pro-West industrialists and businessmen``.
In Pakistan we tried to use the a glue similar to Indian version and colored it red with blood of bengalis, balochis, and Mohajirs.
However Pakistani glue lacks ``stickiness`` due to the absence of ``subservient`` attitudes among its masses, and we lack critical mass of ``pro-West industrialist and businessmen``.
Army thus becomes a temporary source of power that forces people together. Unfortunately this is a band-aid solution. Hope one of these days our Industrialists would force pro-West politicians and policies. Only then you will see a stable and sustainable democratic system in Pakistan.
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
Re: # 63 by Mantolives on January 13, 2007 1:30am PT
Punjab in the British Empire was a regulated province ... unlike UP, Bombay, Bengal etc. Why was this and what did it mean? Punjab was a regulated province because the British leaned on it heavily for recruitment.
Partially true!
There were other reasons for using different law in Punjab vs. UP (and others).
1. Punjab was the last province to come under British control.
2. Punjab was considered a shield for UP and the rest of the region against Ruskie invasion.
#1 shows that UP, Bihar, and Bengal were the regions fully subservient to British.
#2 is key in understanding why British did in the subcontinent the way they did it. Many analysts (local and foreign) tend to forget the ``big picture``.
For big picture analysis, we must roll out the world map and draw (with big arrows) how different powers were jockeying for influence on the globe.
British policy in the Subcontinent from at least 18th century until 1995 (and even now) has been to use Punjab region (Frontier was part of Punjab until 1910) as a shield to protect against invaders from central Asia and beyond. Jinnah was among those few leaders who truly understood British psyche. That is why he was among the handful of leaders who stood against anarchy.
BTW it is wrong to assume that Punjab was kept under special rule to ensure ``recruitment``. Martial traditions in certain regions of Punjab and Frontier meant (and still are) that an army recruiter could easily get 1000`s of recruits.
3. Feudals in Punjab were treated favorably just like feudals in other provinces. Nothing special there. That was (and in case of Pakistan it still is) the way to run a peaceful government.
4. Punjab was the richest province and therefore had a powerful bourgeoisie class that included Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs. Lala Lajpat Rai was the chief money supplier of Congress from Punjab region.
Sir Syed got donations from the same bourgeoisie. One such notable was Dial Singh (founder of Diyal Singh College Lahore). By 1940s there was a substantial Middle Class from Muslim background as well. No wonder both League and Congress would hold big rallies in Lahore. That meant easier collection of money from the local lobbyists (Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs).
Re: # 63 by Mantolives on January 13, 2007 1:30am PT
Sindh and NWFP had only recently become provinces... and Balochistan did not become province untill after partition.
That is correct.
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 13, 2007 06:45 am
Re: # 63 by Mantolives on January 13, 2007 1:30am PT
Punjab in the British Empire was a regulated province ... unlike UP, Bombay, Bengal etc. Why was this and what did it mean? Punjab was a regulated province because the British leaned on it heavily for recruitment.
Partially true!
There were other reasons for using different law in Punjab vs. UP (and others).
1. Punjab was the last province to come under British control.
2. Punjab was considered a shield for UP and the rest of the region against Ruskie invasion.
#1 shows that UP, Bihar, and Bengal were the regions fully subservient to British.
#2 is key in understanding why British did in the subcontinent the way they did it. Many analysts (local and foreign) tend to forget the ``big picture``.
For big picture analysis, we must roll out the world map and draw (with big arrows) how different powers were jockeying for influence on the globe.
British policy in the Subcontinent from at least 18th century until 1995 (and even now) has been to use Punjab region (Frontier was part of Punjab until 1910) as a shield to protect against invaders from central Asia and beyond. Jinnah was among those few leaders who truly understood British psyche. That is why he was among the handful of leaders who stood against anarchy.
BTW it is wrong to assume that Punjab was kept under special rule to ensure ``recruitment``. Martial traditions in certain regions of Punjab and Frontier meant (and still are) that an army recruiter could easily get 1000`s of recruits.
3. Feudals in Punjab were treated favorably just like feudals in other provinces. Nothing special there. That was (and in case of Pakistan it still is) the way to run a peaceful government.
4. Punjab was the richest province and therefore had a powerful bourgeoisie class that included Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs. Lala Lajpat Rai was the chief money supplier of Congress from Punjab region.
Sir Syed got donations from the same bourgeoisie. One such notable was Dial Singh (founder of Diyal Singh College Lahore). By 1940s there was a substantial Middle Class from Muslim background as well. No wonder both League and Congress would hold big rallies in Lahore. That meant easier collection of money from the local lobbyists (Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs).
Re: # 63 by Mantolives on January 13, 2007 1:30am PT
Sindh and NWFP had only recently become provinces... and Balochistan did not become province untill after partition.
That is correct.
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
Pakistan may be comparable to West Virginia, but Bihar is out of the charts landing straight into some gad-awful African corner called Mali or Mooli.
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 12, 2007 09:23 pm
Re: # 60 Bihari John this is your 100 th attempt to cover up charcoal black Bihari @$$ using Premji`s pants. How awful. You Biharis have no shame. Pakistan may be comparable to West Virginia, but Bihar is out of the charts landing straight into some gad-awful African corner called Mali or Mooli.
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
Re: # 58 B(Bihari John) and Mississippi Masalah what a combination.
With Sham demo-crazy India has made it barely at the level of Pakistan. It took 60 years for you guys. What a shame!
India per person spending is still 3% lower. And we are not evening talking about the Paris of East aka Patna!
Work babu work. That`s your history and your future to be a Munshi for the whole west. Work babu work!
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 12, 2007 09:15 pm
Re: # 58 B(Bihari John) and Mississippi Masalah what a combination.
With Sham demo-crazy India has made it barely at the level of Pakistan. It took 60 years for you guys. What a shame!
India per person spending is still 3% lower. And we are not evening talking about the Paris of East aka Patna!
Work babu work. That`s your history and your future to be a Munshi for the whole west. Work babu work!
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
Truth hurts. Ain`t it?
Whatever you say here are the stats:
1. India with 1095.35 million population and $135.8 billion annual spending.
2. Pakistan with 160 million population and $21 billion annual spending.
Do the maths and figure out how India is Virginia. hahah.
If Pakistan is West Virgina, India is at most Alabama or worse yet Mississippi.
Funny how a pauper Bihari loves to take pot shots at West Virginia. Bunch of African Congars trying to be Goras. hahahha.
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 12, 2007 08:58 pm
Re: # 56 B(Bihari) JohnTruth hurts. Ain`t it?
Whatever you say here are the stats:
1. India with 1095.35 million population and $135.8 billion annual spending.
2. Pakistan with 160 million population and $21 billion annual spending.
Do the maths and figure out how India is Virginia. hahah.
If Pakistan is West Virgina, India is at most Alabama or worse yet Mississippi.
Funny how a pauper Bihari loves to take pot shots at West Virginia. Bunch of African Congars trying to be Goras. hahahha.
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 12, 2007 06:51 pm
Re: # 52 you may have read AIML meeting minutes (I doubt though). However you ain`t know nothing about Jinnah. He was the only one who stood for people and not for some lobby. Gandhi was a petty lobbyist for Hindu textile mill owners, while Nehru was a show-shaw-list dumper. Both of these secular-wanna-bees mixed Geeta and politics on daily bases. Shame utter shame for these fathers of illicit entity called Hindustan.
Do Pakistanis deserve a democratic system?
ooh! Be proud of being Bihari! Ok they are paupers and BIMARU, still they are the true Indians. Rest of the riff-raff should bow to Biharis! Om!
Posted by
taikonaut
Jan 12, 2007 06:46 pm
Re: # 50 ooh! Be proud of being Bihari! Ok they are paupers and BIMARU, still they are the true Indians. Rest of the riff-raff should bow to Biharis! Om!
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