The White Rose Kulharee,

On the contrary, I know the discrimination to be real...but my father was a fighter and I will always be proud of him.

I obviously mistook your sarcasm for something else.

Anyway...the Model Town mosque is the last mosque my father's body was taken to before being buried in the Qabristan. Sad to hear of the incident you speak of... That mosque always has had a very peaceful history.

The White Rose Banjara,

Unfortunately the sad truth is that Ordinance xx of 1984 under General Zia makes it unlawful for Ahmadis to use Islamic symbols or give Adhan.

The important thing is that Constitution of Pakistan under Article 20 does put up religious freedom and a more honest judiciary will hopefully one day strike down the ordinance... the previous challenge Ziauddin v the State was decided in a shameless fashion.

The truth on the ground however is that inside Ahmadi places of worship there are Islamic symbols, most Ahmadis put Quranic verses in their houses and wear Lais al insana ila Ma asa proudly... without this law coming into operation.

The White Rose Also kulharee mian...the protagonist being portrayed here was - to my knowledge- a staunch Pakistani...

I doubt that he would appreciate your little comment unnecessarily TCing BJ and his Indians... Frankly the kinda life he led - the cars, the privilege, the children in American school etc, his Ahmadi cousins in India could hardly imagine...they being a marginalized minority amongst a marginalized minority in India despite the freedom to call themselves whatever they want.

I am sure the author would make the same point.

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan Anyway... this is the problem with this website. It causes one to behave in an undignified manner.

I retract my last unparliamentary comment to tahir with due apology and beg leave from this horrible website.

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan
I know I promised two posts ago to post my last post but consider this an added installment...

I challenge tahir and the entire furry-haired brigade to provide one rational verifiable piece of evidence anywhere that shows that Ahmadis/Quadianis are a "British creation".

An ironic similarity between the Hindu Majority that dominates India and the Sunni Majority that dominates Islam (by extension Pakistan) is that every thing becomes a "British creation".... Ismailis British creation, Pakistan British creation, Ahmadis British creation, Dalits British creation, ... Hindus and Sunnis ascribe more things to the British than what is actually possible for one nation to have done. Going by the Hindu and Sunni versions of History... everything is a conspiracy theory.

The common thread ofcourse is that they constitute "majorities"... majorities which are not "being respected"... hence there is a conspiracy being hatched every minute... Sadnas, Tahirs, Atifs are merely same people in different majorities... kindred souls really.

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan
kaurajhoot,

Yaar, isn't it ironic ... you first discriminate against a person by calling him a Muslim. Then you complain that he embraced that role.

The hypocrite my dear friend is you. Damn right that "hate" created Pakistan. That hate however was not on part of Jinnah or the Muslims... that hate was always from hypocrites like you.

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan I don't wish to waste another minute of my time on this website...

Those interested in an honest exchange of ideas on partition ... please visit:

Partition of India: A dialogue

http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/partition-of-india-a -dialogue/

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan PS:

"nehru gave them a lesson in respecting elected majorities"

Nonsense. They were the elected majority in their province.
Nehru insisted on controlling everything from the center.

In other words... whatever Nehru's personal secular beliefs... this meant a total domination of Hindu majority in New Delhi on areas which were Muslim majority.

Ironically neither the Punjabi Muslims nor Jinnah (who worked at cross purposes through out) had brought separate electorates in... indeed Jinnah's proposals (in opposition to Punjabi Muslims' position) had paved the way for a clear path to joint electorates ... by guaranteed representation of 33% at the center (as opposed to 25% that Hindu Mahasabha had agreed to with Motilal Nehru) .... so whatever bakwas Sadna is doing here... the facts are very different.

The real question comes down to whether there was any need of speaking up for Muslims... it is often claimed by people like Sadna and other such Indian types that Jinnah started speaking for Muslims only because he could not compete with Gandhi and Nehru types in the Congress. Well the reason he could not compete with Gandhi and Nehru types is because he had a Muslim name ... despite the fact that there was nothing in his dress, lifestyle, education that distinguished him on religious grounds.

The truth is that people like Nehrus etc and Sadna types today would accept only those Muslims who would play second fiddle. Bacha Khans and Azads are fine... the former was a regional leader with little or no threat to Gandhi and Nehru etc ... the latter was a religious scholar with no real political following... All their self righteousness about "elected majorities" and "one-man one vote" is predicated on the fact that they were a majority and nothing else.

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan Sadna,

Only someone who is deluded or completely a dunce would put Punjabi Muslims and Jinnah's political objectives in one basket... anyone who has read (without the blinkers you have on) the round-table conferences and the role your favorite Sir Fazli Hussain played... in opposition to Sapru, Jinnah (and by extension against your Nehru and Gandhi etc)... would know that Punjabi Muslim landed interests worked on cross purposes with Jinnah's interests which were all-India... the real rub is that you keep harping about this majority majority thing when you lack total understanding of the politics of the period.

I really hope that you give up this obsession you have with partition politics because you neither have the ability nor the intellectual integrity to decipher this very important period in the collective history of our subcontinent.

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan anil...

Sure... you have my email?

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan Pew,

Well yes... but this is not as simple as either side makes it. It may be argued that the grouping of Muslim majority areas, constituting independent and autonomous units, as embodied by the Muslim League's Lahore resolution (later popularized by the Congress as "Pakistan") was not in variance to the notion of Indian unity.

Furthermore... it must also be realized that the Cabinet Mission Plan did not go far enough to meet the proposal of the Lahore Resolution... it actually rejected all the planks of League's demand including parity. Therefore it is very significant that Jinnah accepted it nonetheless. It is equally significant that Congress chose to reject the CMP.


Masadi mian,

So now I live in a million dollar house. good...anything else in your depraved third rate mind that you have to say?

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan Yes Pew Research, I've read it. Good that you've read it too.

Muqaddam,

I live there. Most of what you see here is media hype. Chowk-wallahs have been predicting Pakistan's demise for over 10 years now. So keep hoping and praying. We are not going away though.


Masadi,

Why are you obsessed with me? You are an insignificant little foolish man who isn't taken seriously. You should hear some of the things your "colleagues" say about you. Please don't bother with me... you would have to climb many shoulders before we can meet eye to eye on anything bhai. Know your auqaat bhai.


Azadkhayal,

What I meant was that we've lived through the terrorist threats... and yes the chaos that is going on in Islamabad.. with taiban threatening to blow up our schools and children. I am here in California on vacation this month. I will return to Pakistan come June. You guys have got it wrong.


What is happening in Swat is the logical extension of the war on terror. If we've decided to fight this war, we have to realize that this war is going to be fought in our streets. Why then should you or anyone else hark back to choices and decisions made a good 70 years ago? Frankly I don't understand and it is now a worthless exercise. That is all I am saying.

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan muqaddam,

I don't have time to discuss this idiotic proposition that you put up... but with a 65% 35% (actually 72-28) you would have two warring communities ....

No discerning Indian Hindu would entertain this idea secular or not... because conventional wisdom is that a successful nation state always has a cultural majority of 80% or more... from an Indian standpoint it would have been a disaster of immense proportions if they would have to contend with Muslim majorities on the fringes... under fiercely particularist leaders like the Tiwanas and Daultanas in Punjab, Fazlul Haq, Suhrawardy and Abul Hashim in Bengal ... Khuhros and GM Syeds of Sindh... and even Bacha Khan types in NWFP .... who then would constitute a 30% minority at the center. It would be a constant veto on India's progress.

The only solution/alternative to partition was the Cabinet Mission Plan... which no matter what A'nulls and Sadnas of chowk say... did not give Muslims parity at the center but created an organic federation atop three sub-federations... in other words India would have all the benefits of the present... or almost all of them...

Chaos – Thy Name is Pakistan Mr. Gill,

I live in Islamabad Pakistan. I live there with my family... and we've gone through the chaos you refer to ... but I am afraid it is not as bad as people here in California make it out to be.

Currently visiting the US, people keep asking me about Pakistan... and I think all these doomsday scenarios you have going in the media- especially here- are mostly fiction.

The issue with Pakistan remains its army which is not in tune with national interests. And because army-centric policy makers dominate our policy-making... the situation is perhaps best reflected by the Economist article on Pakistan's economy in the last issue (23 April-May 1st)...

This constant justification you guys seek... the sentence "we would have gotten a better deal from Hindus" blah blah is just hogwash really because it has no real bearing when such what-ifs are rubbish. Why must we be continuously held to this standard? We exist period. And nor should say those people who attached a certain amount of idealism to the idea of Pakistan in 1947 be held accountable for subsequent failure of successive generations of living up to it.

Please- I ask you as a Pakistani citizen living in Pakistan-to stop this exercise of self immolation every time something goes wrong in Pakistan. I spent last night discussing Indian elections and politics with two very smart Indians from chowk itself... and what they said struck me ... it is not that India does not have the problems we have... or that India is this perfect utopia that people make it out to be... but Indians don't indulge in this unnecessary exercise of self immolation which goes beyond academic inquiry... and is in the realm of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder... an national OCD of sorts. Indians don't have it. We do.

So please... atleast those Pakistanis who live abroad spare us Pakistanis who live in the country. This is an appeal to your sense of reason and balance.

Book Review: Daniyal Mueenuddin \"In Other Rooms, Other Wonders\" Wasiq,

I hope you do know that Mr. Mueenuddin is close to 50 years old. Since I met him recently, I was a little suprised by "talented young Pakistani" business.

Time’s Man of the Year 2008 – Barack Hussein Obama Barack Hussain Obama... Just how far the world has come from the time when racist casteist hindu fascist bigot Mahatma Gandhi was calling Black people inferior and of lesser racial stock than other human beings.

What a slap really on the real Gandhi's face (not the hollywood one though).