Open Letter to all Pakistanis: Bombay, Faridkot and Us
That is what I am talking about. He was not a goody goody pinko... But he knew that perpetual conflict does not bode well for his nation. He therefore turned off the same valve that he turned on earlier ... Pakistanis need to do the same.
Posted by
MantoLives
Dec 17, 2008 09:34 pm
Akcheema,That is what I am talking about. He was not a goody goody pinko... But he knew that perpetual conflict does not bode well for his nation. He therefore turned off the same valve that he turned on earlier ... Pakistanis need to do the same.
Open Letter to all Pakistanis: Bombay, Faridkot and Us
Since bj insists on going back to partition, it maybe said that these groups emanate from the same terrorist mentality that was introduced by Gandhi in the khilafat movement.
That makes Gandhi subcontinent's first true Hindu as well as Muslim terrorist (by bj's logic when applied properly to the real facts of history).
But I don't make any such claims.
Posted by
MantoLives
Dec 17, 2008 09:13 pm
If my post deserves to get redflagged why not the name bj? Since bj insists on going back to partition, it maybe said that these groups emanate from the same terrorist mentality that was introduced by Gandhi in the khilafat movement.
That makes Gandhi subcontinent's first true Hindu as well as Muslim terrorist (by bj's logic when applied properly to the real facts of history).
But I don't make any such claims.
Verification of the String Theory – The Dooms Day Gets Postponed
The LHC- I am hoping- will answer fundamental questions of our existence and not so fundamental one as well (I hope) such as whether Time travel is possible. Those of us who don't buy traditional religious view of afterlife, hang on to that hope to see our loved ones again.
Posted by
MantoLives
Dec 17, 2008 09:06 pm
Gill sb, The LHC- I am hoping- will answer fundamental questions of our existence and not so fundamental one as well (I hope) such as whether Time travel is possible. Those of us who don't buy traditional religious view of afterlife, hang on to that hope to see our loved ones again.
Open Letter to all Pakistanis: Bombay, Faridkot and Us
Hold your horses yaar and don't waste your time. My policy is never to read posts by committed followers of racist casteist misogynist mahatmas like Gandhi.
Now be on your way.
Posted by
MantoLives
Dec 17, 2008 08:38 pm
Bjkumar,Hold your horses yaar and don't waste your time. My policy is never to read posts by committed followers of racist casteist misogynist mahatmas like Gandhi.
Now be on your way.
Open Letter to all Pakistanis: Bombay, Faridkot and Us
India got over it. We can get over it as well... we've also sacrificed our first woman prime minister at that altar.
Posted by
MantoLives
Dec 17, 2008 08:35 pm
As for the Frankenstein monsters... Let us not forget Bhindrawala and Indira wala. India got over it. We can get over it as well... we've also sacrificed our first woman prime minister at that altar.
Open Letter to all Pakistanis: Bombay, Faridkot and Us
I suggest you review Kemal Ataturk's pronouncements during the war of independence.
It is true that Ataturk conclusively moved Turkish nationalism (itself the imagined identity of Muslims of Anatolia and thrace) away from religion and more to language after 1923, but before that his use of Islam and Islamic solidarity is well documented. His invocation of Jehad etc is certainly more pronounced than our He himself spoke about it in his six days speech. Ataturk was a statesman...and not an ideologue. He did what was necessary for his people.
In retrospect the move from religious solidarity to linguistic one as the basis of nationalism opened a pandora's box ie Kurd issue. We made the same mistake in Pakistan.
Posted by
MantoLives
Dec 17, 2008 08:24 pm
Rtf,I suggest you review Kemal Ataturk's pronouncements during the war of independence.
It is true that Ataturk conclusively moved Turkish nationalism (itself the imagined identity of Muslims of Anatolia and thrace) away from religion and more to language after 1923, but before that his use of Islam and Islamic solidarity is well documented. His invocation of Jehad etc is certainly more pronounced than our He himself spoke about it in his six days speech. Ataturk was a statesman...and not an ideologue. He did what was necessary for his people.
In retrospect the move from religious solidarity to linguistic one as the basis of nationalism opened a pandora's box ie Kurd issue. We made the same mistake in Pakistan.
Open Letter to all Pakistanis: Bombay, Faridkot and Us
Thank you. If I had been wrong about the other issue, you can rest assure I would have admitted it by now.
Maybe you should follow my precedent and admit that you are wrong ;).
Posted by
MantoLives
Dec 17, 2008 08:14 pm
Dear Harish,Thank you. If I had been wrong about the other issue, you can rest assure I would have admitted it by now.
Maybe you should follow my precedent and admit that you are wrong ;).
The Taliban and Our National Interest!
It was TNT in Bosnia, in Kosovo, in East Timor, in Malcom's black nationalism, in Cyprus, when the Puritans set off for America, when Jews of the world created Israel...
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 25, 2008 05:41 pm
Not just Muslims mohar...whereever there would be majoritarian fascists the minority will raise TNT and shove it up the majority where the sun don't shine. It was TNT in Bosnia, in Kosovo, in East Timor, in Malcom's black nationalism, in Cyprus, when the Puritans set off for America, when Jews of the world created Israel...
Politics of PPP and Asif Zardari
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 22, 2008 09:15 am
PS you might want to read my article "communists and the making of Pakistan" or read why the Communist Party of India supported the Muslim League so wholeheartedly during the Pakistan movement.
Politics of PPP and Asif Zardari
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 22, 2008 09:15 am
PS you might want to read my article "communists and the making of Pakistan" or read why the Communist Party of India supported the Muslim League so wholeheartedly during the Pakistan movement.
Politics of PPP and Asif Zardari
Marxist historian Hamza Alavi did a lot of work on the class structure of the Pakistan movement in his work and his conclusions are diametrically opposite to yours... To him the push for Pakistan came from the "salariat" which constituted the Petty bourgeoisie.
What you say is a popular but simplistic view. Muslim League started off as a party of the select few you named but after Jinnah and others like him joined and then re-organized it, it catered to a broad base but specifically the Petty bourgeoisie.
Had that not been the case, it would not have been successful as a mass party in the 1940s and would have remained a debating society it started off as.
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 22, 2008 09:11 am
Afat, Marxist historian Hamza Alavi did a lot of work on the class structure of the Pakistan movement in his work and his conclusions are diametrically opposite to yours... To him the push for Pakistan came from the "salariat" which constituted the Petty bourgeoisie.
What you say is a popular but simplistic view. Muslim League started off as a party of the select few you named but after Jinnah and others like him joined and then re-organized it, it catered to a broad base but specifically the Petty bourgeoisie.
Had that not been the case, it would not have been successful as a mass party in the 1940s and would have remained a debating society it started off as.
Politics of PPP and Asif Zardari
All I am saying is that given that Congress insisted on and got the partition of Punjab and Bengal, and got its British daddy Mountbatten to violate the terms of agreement and put a Muslim majority district contiguous to Pakistan in India, and given VP Menon's letter to George Abell on January 23 1946 in which he fascinatingly put an exact map of Pakistan on the cards which was finally forwarded by Mountbatten, and given that Congress appointed Governor General Mountbatten had been in power since April 1947 ... and was privy to the boundary award in advance of independence and given that VP Menon worked in close cooperation with Nehru and Nehru knew everything that went on in Viceroy's mind given his close personal relationship with his wife and perhaps Mountbatten himself, and given that Congress' Governor General refused to deploy the army in East Punjab, it is idiotic and downright dishonest to blame Jinnah and Muslim League for violence when they did not come to power till August 15 and were not privy to the boundary award till August 17 and when the Pakistan they had asked was not given and when the force they had asked for was not given and when the victims were predominantly located in the Gurdaspur district which India had appropriated for itself through fraud. It is downright dishonest and done for one purpose alone- to exonerate Congress' choice of Governor General ie Mountbatten who was a thug and a criminal and Congress was thus complicit and culpable.
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 21, 2008 09:27 pm
Sanataniji,All I am saying is that given that Congress insisted on and got the partition of Punjab and Bengal, and got its British daddy Mountbatten to violate the terms of agreement and put a Muslim majority district contiguous to Pakistan in India, and given VP Menon's letter to George Abell on January 23 1946 in which he fascinatingly put an exact map of Pakistan on the cards which was finally forwarded by Mountbatten, and given that Congress appointed Governor General Mountbatten had been in power since April 1947 ... and was privy to the boundary award in advance of independence and given that VP Menon worked in close cooperation with Nehru and Nehru knew everything that went on in Viceroy's mind given his close personal relationship with his wife and perhaps Mountbatten himself, and given that Congress' Governor General refused to deploy the army in East Punjab, it is idiotic and downright dishonest to blame Jinnah and Muslim League for violence when they did not come to power till August 15 and were not privy to the boundary award till August 17 and when the Pakistan they had asked was not given and when the force they had asked for was not given and when the victims were predominantly located in the Gurdaspur district which India had appropriated for itself through fraud. It is downright dishonest and done for one purpose alone- to exonerate Congress' choice of Governor General ie Mountbatten who was a thug and a criminal and Congress was thus complicit and culpable.
Politics of PPP and Asif Zardari
It would be alright had the Congress would then have used this information to secure life and property of the multitude...
VP Menon's letter mentions Gurdaspur by name ... Had Mountbatten not withheld this information on and after August 15, things would have taken a better course.
But my point was for NKG, for given this, Congress leadership seems directly culpable and not how the standard indian line goes: Jinnah asked for Pakistan and so he is responsible... In Congress' case it seems that they had all the time to action to stop the violence but they chose to go along with Mountbatten's sordid conspiracy against Pakistan all because of their personal hatred for Jinnah.
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 21, 2008 12:36 am
Majumdar,It would be alright had the Congress would then have used this information to secure life and property of the multitude...
VP Menon's letter mentions Gurdaspur by name ... Had Mountbatten not withheld this information on and after August 15, things would have taken a better course.
But my point was for NKG, for given this, Congress leadership seems directly culpable and not how the standard indian line goes: Jinnah asked for Pakistan and so he is responsible... In Congress' case it seems that they had all the time to action to stop the violence but they chose to go along with Mountbatten's sordid conspiracy against Pakistan all because of their personal hatred for Jinnah.
Politics of PPP and Asif Zardari
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 21, 2008 12:15 am
VP menon's letter was on January 23rd 1946 ... Not 1947. That means that Congress had planned the partition of Punjab and Bengal for almost 2 years...
Politics of PPP and Asif Zardari
The genocide was carried out in East Punjab in Gurdaspur to be exact...why don't you give credit to your leaders under whose watch the "biggest non-military genocide" was carried out ie Nehru, Gandhi, Patel and the father of India Lord Mountbatten. Why don't you give credit to the Hindus and Sikhs who were let loose on a hapless population in Gurdaspur by none other than the "secular" Congress Party.
As for Jinnah's relatives- I think his closest relative lives in New York ... And your comment does not make sense because partition as it happened - division of Bengal and Punjab- was Congress' idea and it was the first Indian Mountbatten who by his own admission twisted Jinnah's arm to make him accept it.
Jinnah for his part tried to the end to keep Punjab and Bengal united - which if done would have resulted in far less violence than you say. But the Congress had decided to partition Punjab and Bengal as early as January 23rd, 1946 (a full six months before Jinnah had accepted even the one-sided Cabinet Mission Plan to keep India united) ...
VP Menon- Nehru's top dog to be- had proposed in a letter to George Abell on January 23rd, 1947 the exact boundaries that came about on August 14 and which were kept a secret from everyone till August 17, 1947 by India's daddy Mountbatten.
Given that Congress was privy to the boundary award all through out, the incredible genocide of Muslims lies solely at the door of the Congress and its British daddy Mountbatten.
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 21, 2008 12:13 am
Wah NKG wah... Tum jaiso ko sharam bhee nahin ati jhoot boltay huay. The genocide was carried out in East Punjab in Gurdaspur to be exact...why don't you give credit to your leaders under whose watch the "biggest non-military genocide" was carried out ie Nehru, Gandhi, Patel and the father of India Lord Mountbatten. Why don't you give credit to the Hindus and Sikhs who were let loose on a hapless population in Gurdaspur by none other than the "secular" Congress Party.
As for Jinnah's relatives- I think his closest relative lives in New York ... And your comment does not make sense because partition as it happened - division of Bengal and Punjab- was Congress' idea and it was the first Indian Mountbatten who by his own admission twisted Jinnah's arm to make him accept it.
Jinnah for his part tried to the end to keep Punjab and Bengal united - which if done would have resulted in far less violence than you say. But the Congress had decided to partition Punjab and Bengal as early as January 23rd, 1946 (a full six months before Jinnah had accepted even the one-sided Cabinet Mission Plan to keep India united) ...
VP Menon- Nehru's top dog to be- had proposed in a letter to George Abell on January 23rd, 1947 the exact boundaries that came about on August 14 and which were kept a secret from everyone till August 17, 1947 by India's daddy Mountbatten.
Given that Congress was privy to the boundary award all through out, the incredible genocide of Muslims lies solely at the door of the Congress and its British daddy Mountbatten.
Politics of PPP and Asif Zardari
However you may be aware that petrol price nationally has come down by 30 percent ..given that our government did not wholly pass on the price increase- this 30 percent reduction will have to do for now.
Posted by
MantoLives
Nov 20, 2008 07:36 pm
A good analysis as usual barrister Chishti. However you may be aware that petrol price nationally has come down by 30 percent ..given that our government did not wholly pass on the price increase- this 30 percent reduction will have to do for now.
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