Fissures in the Middle #284 tahmed32

[majumdar #266 "Gandhi" represents an idea - not just a man. Gandhi earned the right to become the leading icon of that idea. And that idea is almost essential for the future of all mankind today.

Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King (both of whom were inspired by Gandhi's peaceful non-resistance) have obtained more enduring results than a million "Black Panthers" or two million masadis (the old, unimporoved kind - not the new, improved masadi of whom all chowkies are so proud).]


So do you agree with Gandhi when he said the following?

There is no doubt in my mind that in the majority of quarrels the Hindus come out second best. But my own experience confirms the opinion that the Mussalman as a rule is a bully, and the Hindu as a rule is a coward. I have noticed this in railway trains, on public roads, and in the quarrels which I had the privilege of settling. Need the Hindu blame the Mussalman for his cowardice? Where there are cowards, there will always be bullies. They say that in Saharanpur the Mussalmans looted houses, broke open safes and, in one case, a Hindu woman's modesty was outraged. Whose fault was this? Mussalmans can offer no defence for the execrable conduct, it is true. But I, as a Hindu, am more ashamed of Hindu cowardice than I am angry at the Mussalman bullying. Why did not the owners of the houses looted die in the attempt to defend their possessions? Where were the relatives of the outraged sister at the time of the outrage? Have they no account to render of themselves? My non-violence does not admit of running away from danger and leaving dear ones unprotected. Between violence and cowardly flight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice.


[But he did one thing right - and that was his emphasis on nonviolence.]

Now how does that jive with mo chopping off the heads of 700 unarmed civilians? Eh?


[Hope this explains why Gandhi is a world figure, and Jinnah is not. Jinnah no doubt did us Pakistanis a favor since hindu extremism is no better than muslim extremism -]

I strongly disagree. Jinnah deserves to be a world figure for his unparalleled foresight and wisdom. Just imagine the sewer that India would have become with Jihadis running around a undivided India.

Every Hindu should have a framed picture of Jinnah in their house. Gandhi did his utmost to stop the partition, and prevent the great man (Jinnah) from achieving his masterpiece. The day will come when Jinnah, not Gandhi will be celebrated in all of India for his contributions to India's progress and peace.



[...but it was a tactical contribution to one community of people, not a strategic contribution to all mankind.]

I beg to differ. It is BECAUSE OF Jinnah that India will be able to rise to great heights and make immense contributions to mankind - all of mankind. While in Pakiland, Muslims will keep running around doing what Muslims always do.

Fissures in the Middle It's interesting to see the finest of the Paki minds (heh heh!) squabble over the ruins of the latest Paki attempt at democracy. As I've mentioned before, people who are used to "submitting" without any questions, will NEVER attain democracy. Regardless of whether the "unwashed masses" get a wash.

I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? #234 Posted by masadi

[No message that goes out of its way to separate itself from its deliverer can have anything to do with how credible the deliverer is or not. Even if Satan himself would deliver a message of truth, that does not take away from the message.]

This would be true if "Allah" indeed delivered the "message" (containing crucial chapters like "The Cow") to mo in the cave via the winged creature. But if mo was lying about that, then it would not be "Allah's" message, now would it? Regardless of whether the Hindus are bigots and Islam-haters.

Cock-and-bull stories from credible people are still cock-and-bull stories. But cock-and-bull stories from a man obviously without any character and thus without any credibility is worth as much as tahmed's opinions.

Responsibility of the Media and the Repercussions of Terror Strikes #52 mullah_toofani

[There is another responsibility that the media has: it must expose the evils of bride burning and widow killing, and aborting female babies. These are potential converts into my beautiful religion, and the hinuds should not be allowed to sprinkle gau muttar, kerosene oil, or lit torches at them.]

But gang-rape and honor killings are allowed, mullaji?

Ahmedabad Blasts: Numbed Apathy and The Conspiracy Of Our Resilience #219 masadi

[Asking for an answer to "how many angels can dance at the tip of a pin" is certainly not "the right question"....]

Heh heh heh. Um..how about asking "could you describe in a 1000 words the spiritual core of Islam"?

Could you do that, maybe? Or is this also equivalent to "Angels dancing on pins"?

Ahmedabad Blasts: Numbed Apathy and The Conspiracy Of Our Resilience #217 lalitvanshaj

[Re: # 207 Satya, there is no duplicity in what I have been saying ... what we don't seem to appreciate is that there is a 'middle ground'(which perhaps does not exist on this site) ... that there are greys, not just black & white. Its called 'balance' & 'even-handedness' ]

An eminently sane, level-headed, and 50-50 analysis of the situation. Bravo! You obviously are an enlightened person, with superior ideals, and to sum it up, just superior to these common folks with bigoted, hateful and animal instincts. In short, a true intellectual (regardless of your test scores in High School or College), if I may say so.

Just the kind of person one can carry on a civilized and "meaningful" conversation with.

By the way, when do you think the "talibanization" of Muslims started, in History. And an unrelated question - why do you think the number of Hindus keep decreasing in Bangladesh and Pakistan, for example.

Oh, a third question - would you put Gandhi in the "blindly hateful and bigoted" category from the following quote from him (he obviously had far more first-hand interactions with Muslims than either you or me):

There is no doubt in my mind that in the majority of quarrels the Hindus come out second best. But my own experience confirms the opinion that the Mussalman as a rule is a bully, and the Hindu as a rule is a coward. I have noticed this in railway trains, on public roads, and in the quarrels which I had the privilege of settling. Need the Hindu blame the Mussalman for his cowardice? Where there are cowards, there will always be bullies. They say that in Saharanpur the Mussalmans looted houses, broke open safes and, in one case, a Hindu woman's modesty was outraged. Whose fault was this? Mussalmans can offer no defence for the execrable conduct, it is true. But I, as a Hindu, am more ashamed of Hindu cowardice than I am angry at the Mussalman bullying. Why did not the owners of the houses looted die in the attempt to defend their possessions? Where were the relatives of the outraged sister at the time of the outrage? Have they no account to render of themselves? My non-violence does not admit of running away from danger and leaving dear ones unprotected. Between violence and cowardly flight, I can only prefer violence to cowardice.

with regards,

Ajeya

Ahmedabad Blasts: Numbed Apathy and The Conspiracy Of Our Resilience #214 masadi

[I am sure if you ponder the verses of the Quran in question, your arrow will arrive at the correct conclusion.]

Whether my "arrow" will "arrive at the correct conclusion" or not, the fact remains that like a true Muslim, who really has no answers when asked the right questions, you are unable to provide any direct answers.

So much for all your intellectualizing about Islam.

Fissures in the Middle #121 satya100

[mulla mandarji,

if you did not like essence then let us go for the spiritual core of Shanti. if you think the core cannot be captured in 100 words then please do it in 500 words. ]

Heh heh heh....

Ahmedabad Blasts: Numbed Apathy and The Conspiracy Of Our Resilience #212 masadi

[In the meantime look at other winged creatures that deliver messages as analogies to the not so well understood nor so visible angels, that lurk behind the mystery of the brain/cosmos connection..]

Hmm... Very intriguing. You are forcing me to think, which is not easy for a non-muslim. Um..are you saying that the "message" was delivered to Muhammad 's brain via the "brain/cosmos connection", and the winged apparition was kind of like a holographic medium that Allah (the dude pulling all the levers) was using to transmit these precious "messages" (like the chapter called "The Cow") to his "Chosen One"?

Or am I divining your response wrongly? You have to excuse people like me who are much more cerebrally-challenged than yourself. If you insist on testing my mental mettle with these cryptic answers, then naturally I have no choice but to flounder and grope at answers. But I am trying my best.

Ahmedabad Blasts: Numbed Apathy and The Conspiracy Of Our Resilience #205 masadi

Hey masadi, I had a question. Other than Gabriel, how many other winged angels are there zooming around? Did muhammad meet any angel other than Gabby? Or was Gabby the only one he met?

I ask you this because you are obviously a deeply intellectual (and thus brainy) person. As all true Muslims really are.

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? #217 tahmed32

[Why do non-brahmin hindus put up with this implied insult to their heritage by "being offered a chance to become brahmin" is beyond me!! ]

Why don't you quit all this brahmin-research and concentrate instead on the pedophile-conjured "message", especially the ones about cutting off opposing hands and feet, and raping innocent war-booty?

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? Guru,

Hindus do not need to defend Hinduism. Because we are not trying to convert Muslims. What happens within Hinduism does not affect them.

Muslims are the ones trying to aggressively convert people of other religions. So we Hindus DO have a right to question what they are selling.

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? #212 Eklavya

[Although, believers have found a way out of that impasse, so credibility is not logically necessary to them any more. Believers believe that the Quran or the Message itself is so perfect that you just think long and hard enough and very REALLY honest and sincere, you will see the perfection and the miracle that the Quran is. That proves Islam is true.]

Yes. I know. Some Christian "believers" were using the same arguments about two potato fries that had gotten stuck in the shape of a cross.

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? #207 masadi

Er...so are you saying that the instructions about cutting off opposite hand and feet are not present in the koran? Or raping what "your right hand holds"?

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? #206 Eklavya

[A religion makes no sense if there is no human way to really know what it actually says to humans. That's why the Prophet's life and character become crucial.]

There is a much more fundamental reason why the "prophet's" life and character become crucial. It has to do with credibility. For people to accept the Koran as the word of god, they HAVE to believe that the "prophet" was not lying through his teeth about having conversations with winged creatures in a cave. Because if he was lying about that (as he obviously was), then the very foundation of Islam is made of vapor. One should not even have to argue about the absurdity of his story which was only acceptable to people in the old days (and even some people today), but even if one does, then one has to look at his lack of moral character, his perverted actions and tendencies, his numerous war crimes and all his monstrous acts, and realize that his fabrications were just a means of grabbing power for himself, and all the ill-gotten booty he could lay his hands on.

The Indian Mujahideen – The Answer to BJP’s Pseudo-Secularist Fascism or a New Method to Spread Unrest? #199 tahmed32

[#197 eklavya/dost mittar #198: agreed based on the discussion below that the concept of "syeds" would have arisen anyway as a result of the steady corruption of the original message of islam over the centuries.]

Which original message? The one about cutting off opposite hand and feet, or the one about how it's okay to rape slave women "that your right hand holds"?