Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited
#81 Sadna
[A bigDa hua shehzada or much indulged prince, to pander to whose calculated tantrums and moods(or personality disorders, depending on degree), tens or hundreds of thousands have to die. This is the most dangerous type of personality to leave any public policymaking up to.]
Change that to "millions" and you are talking of that Jinnah creep!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 5, 2008 09:15 am
#81 Sadna
[A bigDa hua shehzada or much indulged prince, to pander to whose calculated tantrums and moods(or personality disorders, depending on degree), tens or hundreds of thousands have to die. This is the most dangerous type of personality to leave any public policymaking up to.]
Change that to "millions" and you are talking of that Jinnah creep!
Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited
#73 Essensaur
[But the strongest visual memories are of his firebrand, emotional outburst followed by a walk out at the United Nations when he debated with India's Foreign Minister Swaran Singh, whose quiet demeanor looked insipid in comparison. It was quite a spectacle - and against the decorum traditionally expected on the floor of that august body, it was probably precedent-setting. What was it that was said in those debates, what the points and counter points were, I just do not remember. It was the phenonmenon of process overriding content at its best.]
Sir, I do not wish to trample all over your obviously tender feeling for the ZAB of yore, but let’s be realistic – that U.N. speech was very symbolic of a whole bunch of “Pakistani” antics from those times!
And it was absolutely meaningless - it was not directed at the UN, but at his domestic constituency!
The realities were:
1. ZAB brought the whole Bangladesh independence event about by refusing to share power with the “dark skinned” Bengalis.
2. ZAB got off scot-free THAT time. He in fact benefited by being handed over the power on a platter.
It is a great testimony to the “brains” of the population in that part of the world that the main cause of a catastrophic event goes to the UN and cries dog-shitt in front of that bunch of jokers and expects anything to happen beyond a bit of tamasha. The funny thing is that it was Pakistan which had attacked India in early December 1971.
Perhaps it is something basic in that mindset – these folks expect that if they do enough “hai mere baap, hai meri amma!” then the world will see things their way – no matter how dumb a way it be!
It will be a long wait before that happens!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 5, 2008 08:36 am
#73 Essensaur
[But the strongest visual memories are of his firebrand, emotional outburst followed by a walk out at the United Nations when he debated with India's Foreign Minister Swaran Singh, whose quiet demeanor looked insipid in comparison. It was quite a spectacle - and against the decorum traditionally expected on the floor of that august body, it was probably precedent-setting. What was it that was said in those debates, what the points and counter points were, I just do not remember. It was the phenonmenon of process overriding content at its best.]
Sir, I do not wish to trample all over your obviously tender feeling for the ZAB of yore, but let’s be realistic – that U.N. speech was very symbolic of a whole bunch of “Pakistani” antics from those times!
And it was absolutely meaningless - it was not directed at the UN, but at his domestic constituency!
The realities were:
1. ZAB brought the whole Bangladesh independence event about by refusing to share power with the “dark skinned” Bengalis.
2. ZAB got off scot-free THAT time. He in fact benefited by being handed over the power on a platter.
It is a great testimony to the “brains” of the population in that part of the world that the main cause of a catastrophic event goes to the UN and cries dog-shitt in front of that bunch of jokers and expects anything to happen beyond a bit of tamasha. The funny thing is that it was Pakistan which had attacked India in early December 1971.
Perhaps it is something basic in that mindset – these folks expect that if they do enough “hai mere baap, hai meri amma!” then the world will see things their way – no matter how dumb a way it be!
It will be a long wait before that happens!
Color-Blind Love
Parshuram, this is a good piece...
...not your usual hatchet job!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 5, 2008 02:50 am
Parshuram, this is a good piece...
...not your usual hatchet job!
Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited
And Zeemax,
Freeing 90,000 POWs is not really a big deal when the other side is just as eager to get rid of them!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 4, 2008 08:50 pm
And Zeemax,
Freeing 90,000 POWs is not really a big deal when the other side is just as eager to get rid of them!
Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited
#35 Zeemax
What I am referring to is the comprehensive written account. What you (claim to) refer to is...
...heresay!
Even that green-eared Manto of a lawyer will tell you that the latter is to be discounted!
(Especially when the memory is likely to be weak and failing - as in your time of life!)
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 4, 2008 08:48 pm
#35 Zeemax
What I am referring to is the comprehensive written account. What you (claim to) refer to is...
...heresay!
Even that green-eared Manto of a lawyer will tell you that the latter is to be discounted!
(Especially when the memory is likely to be weak and failing - as in your time of life!)
Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited
The following is excerpted from an article in The New Yorker.
BHUTTO'S FATEFUL MOMENT
by Mary Anne Weaver
October 4, 1993
At 1:45 A.M. on April 4, 1979, four wardens entered the prison cell of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, a waifishly thin man, nearly wasted away by malaria, dysentery, and hunger strikes. Two of them lifted him by the arms and two by the feet, and he was carried out. His back was so low that it sometimes brushed the floor. He had insisted on shaving and bathing earlier that night—and had done so, with some difficulty—and he had changed into fresh clothes. He had always been fastidious about his appearance. But now the tail of his blousy shirt, ensnarled in the cleats of one of the wardens’ boots, became tattered and soiled.
Outside, in the courtyard of the Rawalpindi District Jail, Zulfi Bhutto, the first popularly elected Prime Minister in the history of Pakistan, was deposited on a stretcher, and his wrists were manacled. There was no guard of honor, and no military salute. As he was carried two hundred yards or so to a wooden scaffold, he raised his head slightly, but he said nothing. Otherwise, he didn’t move. The wardens led him up the scaffold, onto a wooden plank, and there a hangman put a hood over Bhutto’s head, completely covering his face, and a rope around his neck
“Ye mujhai?” (“This to me?”) According to a book by the chief of his security detail, Colonel M. Rafiuddin, who stood two feet away, Bhutto said this in a faint voice, and the Colonel believes he also heard him say, “God help me, for I am innocent!”
At four minutes after two, three hours ahead of schedule, and contrary to the prison code, the hangman pulled a lever, releasing the wooden plank, and Bhutto’s body plunged into a well.
“The bastard’s dead!” General Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, Pakistan’s military ruler, gleefully told his generals when the news came.
The only family members who had been permitted to see Bhutto in the hours before he died were his daughter Benazir, his firstborn and favorite child, who was then in her twenties, and his wife, Nusrat. They had been taken under guard from a deserted police-training camp where they were imprisoned and driven the few miles to the jail. Unlike previous visits, they had not been permitted inside his cell, and Benazir had sat cross-legged on a concrete floor as they received his final instructions through a thick, barred door.
“I pleaded with the jailers, I begged them to open the cell door, so that I could embrace him, and say a proper goodbye,” Benazir told me this summer. “But they refused. When I left him, I couldn’t look back; I knew that I couldn’t control myself. I’m not even sure how I managed to walk down that corridor, past the soldiers and past the guards. All I could think of was my head. ‘Keep it high,’ I told myself. ‘They are all watching.’ ”
Some fourteen hours later, Benazir remembers, she awoke suddenly at precisely two o’clock in the morning and sat bolt upright in bed. “No! No!” she screamed. “Papa! Papa!”
Five years ago, in her autobiography, she went on:
I felt so cold, so cold, in spite of the heat, and couldn’t stop shaking. There was nothing my mother and I could say to console each other. Somehow the hours passed. . . . We were ready at dawn to accompany my father’s body to our ancestral graveyard.
“I am in Iddat [mourning] and can’t receive outsiders. You talk to him,” my mother said dully when the jailer arrived. . . .
I walked into the cracked cement-floored front room that was supposed to serve as our sitting room. It stank of mildew and rot.
“We are ready to leave with the prime minister,” I told the junior jailer standing nervously before me.
“They have already taken him to be buried,” he said.
I felt as if he had struck me. “Without his family?” I asked. . . .
“They have taken him,” he interrupted.
“Taken him where?” The jailer was silent.
“It was very peaceful,” he finally replied “I have brought you what was left.”
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 4, 2008 08:45 pm
The following is excerpted from an article in The New Yorker.
BHUTTO'S FATEFUL MOMENT
by Mary Anne Weaver
October 4, 1993
At 1:45 A.M. on April 4, 1979, four wardens entered the prison cell of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, a waifishly thin man, nearly wasted away by malaria, dysentery, and hunger strikes. Two of them lifted him by the arms and two by the feet, and he was carried out. His back was so low that it sometimes brushed the floor. He had insisted on shaving and bathing earlier that night—and had done so, with some difficulty—and he had changed into fresh clothes. He had always been fastidious about his appearance. But now the tail of his blousy shirt, ensnarled in the cleats of one of the wardens’ boots, became tattered and soiled.
Outside, in the courtyard of the Rawalpindi District Jail, Zulfi Bhutto, the first popularly elected Prime Minister in the history of Pakistan, was deposited on a stretcher, and his wrists were manacled. There was no guard of honor, and no military salute. As he was carried two hundred yards or so to a wooden scaffold, he raised his head slightly, but he said nothing. Otherwise, he didn’t move. The wardens led him up the scaffold, onto a wooden plank, and there a hangman put a hood over Bhutto’s head, completely covering his face, and a rope around his neck
“Ye mujhai?” (“This to me?”) According to a book by the chief of his security detail, Colonel M. Rafiuddin, who stood two feet away, Bhutto said this in a faint voice, and the Colonel believes he also heard him say, “God help me, for I am innocent!”
At four minutes after two, three hours ahead of schedule, and contrary to the prison code, the hangman pulled a lever, releasing the wooden plank, and Bhutto’s body plunged into a well.
“The bastard’s dead!” General Muhammad Zia ul-Haq, Pakistan’s military ruler, gleefully told his generals when the news came.
The only family members who had been permitted to see Bhutto in the hours before he died were his daughter Benazir, his firstborn and favorite child, who was then in her twenties, and his wife, Nusrat. They had been taken under guard from a deserted police-training camp where they were imprisoned and driven the few miles to the jail. Unlike previous visits, they had not been permitted inside his cell, and Benazir had sat cross-legged on a concrete floor as they received his final instructions through a thick, barred door.
“I pleaded with the jailers, I begged them to open the cell door, so that I could embrace him, and say a proper goodbye,” Benazir told me this summer. “But they refused. When I left him, I couldn’t look back; I knew that I couldn’t control myself. I’m not even sure how I managed to walk down that corridor, past the soldiers and past the guards. All I could think of was my head. ‘Keep it high,’ I told myself. ‘They are all watching.’ ”
Some fourteen hours later, Benazir remembers, she awoke suddenly at precisely two o’clock in the morning and sat bolt upright in bed. “No! No!” she screamed. “Papa! Papa!”
Five years ago, in her autobiography, she went on:
I felt so cold, so cold, in spite of the heat, and couldn’t stop shaking. There was nothing my mother and I could say to console each other. Somehow the hours passed. . . . We were ready at dawn to accompany my father’s body to our ancestral graveyard.
“I am in Iddat [mourning] and can’t receive outsiders. You talk to him,” my mother said dully when the jailer arrived. . . .
I walked into the cracked cement-floored front room that was supposed to serve as our sitting room. It stank of mildew and rot.
“We are ready to leave with the prime minister,” I told the junior jailer standing nervously before me.
“They have already taken him to be buried,” he said.
I felt as if he had struck me. “Without his family?” I asked. . . .
“They have taken him,” he interrupted.
“Taken him where?” The jailer was silent.
“It was very peaceful,” he finally replied “I have brought you what was left.”
Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited
The actual link to the article by Mukhlis T (“The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto”) is the following:
www.chowk.com/articles/9370
(not the one I provided in #27)
And Zeemax, the guy Mukhlis T – whoever that be – merely translated a chapter of Col. Rafi ud Din’s Urdu book “Bhutto kay akhri 323 din”.
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 4, 2008 08:28 pm
The actual link to the article by Mukhlis T (“The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto”) is the following:
www.chowk.com/articles/9370
(not the one I provided in #27)
And Zeemax, the guy Mukhlis T – whoever that be – merely translated a chapter of Col. Rafi ud Din’s Urdu book “Bhutto kay akhri 323 din”.
Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited
Cheema sahib,
Many times “charismatic” leaders get carried away by their own charisma, they start thinking that they can do no wrong – that they can get away with virtually anything because they are strong in other areas!
The tragedy is that they realize little that their real loss is not whether they get elected during elections or not (which, in most cases they win – and would have won anyway), but what they fail to accomplish because they could not expand their own thinking horizons! They play petty politics, they plan strategies and maneuvers, and they miss out on what life is all about!
At the time of the Shimla pact, Bhutto was the undisputed Pakistani leader. The Pakistani khakis were a humbled lot – for a change, and he, a civilian leader had absolute power. Mrs. Gandhi wanted to come to some settlement of the Kashmir issue. That was one time that a workable solution could indeed have been worked out – had he the vision…
But, like the Jinnah, he lacked the vision! He made excuses. He talked wishy-washy. He gave little and he got little.
He only wanted time to rebuild the armed forces so that his khakis will live to fight the Indians another day!
He got his wish – anticipating little that HE was to be the rejuvenated khakis’ first victim!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 4, 2008 08:15 pm
Cheema sahib,
Many times “charismatic” leaders get carried away by their own charisma, they start thinking that they can do no wrong – that they can get away with virtually anything because they are strong in other areas!
The tragedy is that they realize little that their real loss is not whether they get elected during elections or not (which, in most cases they win – and would have won anyway), but what they fail to accomplish because they could not expand their own thinking horizons! They play petty politics, they plan strategies and maneuvers, and they miss out on what life is all about!
At the time of the Shimla pact, Bhutto was the undisputed Pakistani leader. The Pakistani khakis were a humbled lot – for a change, and he, a civilian leader had absolute power. Mrs. Gandhi wanted to come to some settlement of the Kashmir issue. That was one time that a workable solution could indeed have been worked out – had he the vision…
But, like the Jinnah, he lacked the vision! He made excuses. He talked wishy-washy. He gave little and he got little.
He only wanted time to rebuild the armed forces so that his khakis will live to fight the Indians another day!
He got his wish – anticipating little that HE was to be the rejuvenated khakis’ first victim!
Bhutto’s Judicial Murder Revisited
While I sympathize with the Bhutto family for what happened to ZAB (and later, to the BeeB), the braggadocio that you post in #1 is somebody’s created account of fiction, perhaps (for all I know) with the motive of riling up people.
An eyewitness’ gripping (and moving) account of the actual ZAB hanging was published right here on this web-site and is still available. "The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
" by Mukhlis T, published on July 11, 2005. (www.chowk.com/articles/7373). According to that article, Mr. ZAB was (understandably) very perturbed at the moment of his hanging and the moments immediately preceding, and he did not say much and certainly nothing of the kind that you put up here.
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 4, 2008 06:48 pm
#1 Zee(hadi)max,While I sympathize with the Bhutto family for what happened to ZAB (and later, to the BeeB), the braggadocio that you post in #1 is somebody’s created account of fiction, perhaps (for all I know) with the motive of riling up people.
An eyewitness’ gripping (and moving) account of the actual ZAB hanging was published right here on this web-site and is still available. "The Last Moments of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto
" by Mukhlis T, published on July 11, 2005. (www.chowk.com/articles/7373). According to that article, Mr. ZAB was (understandably) very perturbed at the moment of his hanging and the moments immediately preceding, and he did not say much and certainly nothing of the kind that you put up here.
Surviving Musharraf\'s Exit?
I think your number one wish in that list of one hundred wishes just received a setback!
'Top' Kashmir militant arrested
Police in Indian-administered Kashmir say they have arrested a top leader of a leading militant group.
Junaid-ul-Islam is the third in the hierarchy of the Hizbul Mujahideen and was its spokesman for 15 years, the police say.
They say the arrest is a major setback to the militant group.
In a separate development, a local court has issued arrest warrants for five army officers accused of killing a civilian after his arrest in Srinagar.
Still fighting
The Hizbul Mujahideen group is one of the main groups fighting Indian rule in Kashmir which is claimed by both India and Pakistan.
Police said Junaid-ul-Islam is a post-graduate in Arabic literature who joined the ranks of militants 19 years ago.
He spent two-and-a-half years in Afghanistan, they said.
A number of militant commanders have been killed in the last three months and authorities say militancy is on the decline in Kashmir amid India-Pakistan peace moves.
Militants are still fighting to end India's rule in the portion of Kashmir it controls.
Meanwhile, Judge Hasnain Masoodi has issued non-bailable warrants against five army men, including three officers and two soldiers, who are accused of killing a civilian in a "staged" gun-battle.
Police say the body of the civilian was found buried in a northern district.
Human rights activists recently said they had identified 1,000 unmarked graves in more remote areas which may contain the bodies of civilians who have disappeared after being detained by the security forces.
The authorities, however, say all reported disappearances have been properly investigated and that there is no need to examine the burial sites.
Four police officers, including a senior superintendent, have already been charged in connection with the case and have been in jail for a year.
'Staged' gun battle
In a similar but separate case, India's main investigating agency, the Central Bureau of Investigation, has begun prosecuting a brigadier and another four officers of the Indian army for allegedly killing five civilians in a "staged" gun-battle in Pathribal village of south Kashmir.
The BBC's Altaf Hussain in Srinagar says that these victims were also dubbed as foreign militants.
Our correspondent says that the army has opposed the trial of the officers, because they say police have not obtained prior permission from the Indian government.
The police say such a permission is not required because the accused officers did not kill the civilians in the course of their duty.
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 3, 2008 03:37 pm
Hamidm2 miaN,I think your number one wish in that list of one hundred wishes just received a setback!
'Top' Kashmir militant arrested
Police in Indian-administered Kashmir say they have arrested a top leader of a leading militant group.
Junaid-ul-Islam is the third in the hierarchy of the Hizbul Mujahideen and was its spokesman for 15 years, the police say.
They say the arrest is a major setback to the militant group.
In a separate development, a local court has issued arrest warrants for five army officers accused of killing a civilian after his arrest in Srinagar.
Still fighting
The Hizbul Mujahideen group is one of the main groups fighting Indian rule in Kashmir which is claimed by both India and Pakistan.
Police said Junaid-ul-Islam is a post-graduate in Arabic literature who joined the ranks of militants 19 years ago.
He spent two-and-a-half years in Afghanistan, they said.
A number of militant commanders have been killed in the last three months and authorities say militancy is on the decline in Kashmir amid India-Pakistan peace moves.
Militants are still fighting to end India's rule in the portion of Kashmir it controls.
Meanwhile, Judge Hasnain Masoodi has issued non-bailable warrants against five army men, including three officers and two soldiers, who are accused of killing a civilian in a "staged" gun-battle.
Police say the body of the civilian was found buried in a northern district.
Human rights activists recently said they had identified 1,000 unmarked graves in more remote areas which may contain the bodies of civilians who have disappeared after being detained by the security forces.
The authorities, however, say all reported disappearances have been properly investigated and that there is no need to examine the burial sites.
Four police officers, including a senior superintendent, have already been charged in connection with the case and have been in jail for a year.
'Staged' gun battle
In a similar but separate case, India's main investigating agency, the Central Bureau of Investigation, has begun prosecuting a brigadier and another four officers of the Indian army for allegedly killing five civilians in a "staged" gun-battle in Pathribal village of south Kashmir.
The BBC's Altaf Hussain in Srinagar says that these victims were also dubbed as foreign militants.
Our correspondent says that the army has opposed the trial of the officers, because they say police have not obtained prior permission from the Indian government.
The police say such a permission is not required because the accused officers did not kill the civilians in the course of their duty.
Surviving Musharraf\'s Exit?
It is clear what is happening.
The Zardari wants desperately to make a deal with the khaki serpents who - under the current pressure, only wish to bide their time till perhaps the GWB leaves. Then the Amrikkans will lose interest and the khakis can reoccupy their old seats in this permanent game of musical chairs.
If I were the judge, I would refuse the "upstairs" position and insist on returning and reoccupying the old office - and force a showdown with the khakis. Otherwise, everything else from last year would be in vain!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 3, 2008 03:23 pm
Re: # 487 ArjunIt is clear what is happening.
The Zardari wants desperately to make a deal with the khaki serpents who - under the current pressure, only wish to bide their time till perhaps the GWB leaves. Then the Amrikkans will lose interest and the khakis can reoccupy their old seats in this permanent game of musical chairs.
If I were the judge, I would refuse the "upstairs" position and insist on returning and reoccupying the old office - and force a showdown with the khakis. Otherwise, everything else from last year would be in vain!
Surviving Musharraf\'s Exit?
It is clear what is happening.
The Zardari wants desperately to make a deal with the khaki serpents who - under the current pressure, only wish to bide their time till perhaps the GWB leaves. Then the Amrikkans will lose interest and the khakis can reoccupy their old seats in this permanent game of musical chairs.
If I were the judge, I would refuse the "upstairs" position and insist on returning and reoccupying the old office - and force a showdown with the khakis. Otherwise, everything else from last year would be in vain!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 3, 2008 03:23 pm
Re: # 487 ArjunIt is clear what is happening.
The Zardari wants desperately to make a deal with the khaki serpents who - under the current pressure, only wish to bide their time till perhaps the GWB leaves. Then the Amrikkans will lose interest and the khakis can reoccupy their old seats in this permanent game of musical chairs.
If I were the judge, I would refuse the "upstairs" position and insist on returning and reoccupying the old office - and force a showdown with the khakis. Otherwise, everything else from last year would be in vain!
Surviving Musharraf\'s Exit?
Eklavya, this may have been forgotten by others. However a long time ago, hamidm2 miaN admitted that he sports a beard too!
It is not known whether that act is voluntary or in response to domestic ultimatum(s).
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 3, 2008 03:16 pm
Re: # 489Eklavya, this may have been forgotten by others. However a long time ago, hamidm2 miaN admitted that he sports a beard too!
It is not known whether that act is voluntary or in response to domestic ultimatum(s).
Surviving Musharraf\'s Exit?
Your post is so absolutely idiotic that it is perhaps not worth a reply. However...
Only the most idiotest of idiots will compare the Indian army to the monstrous cancer which passes for Pakistani army.
Pakistani army makes policy, Indian army does not!
Pakistani army carries out coups, Indian does not!
Pakistani army executes elected leaders, Indian does not!
By extracting the Mushy, one only attends to the surface problem. There is no evidence that you are addressing the cancer underneath.
Perhaps Arjun_m is right and ignoramus Pakistanis do live in a world of their own! Well, I got news for you. The light WILL get in there - no matter how tightly you shut your eyes.
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 3, 2008 03:31 am
Re: # 356 TahmedYour post is so absolutely idiotic that it is perhaps not worth a reply. However...
Only the most idiotest of idiots will compare the Indian army to the monstrous cancer which passes for Pakistani army.
Pakistani army makes policy, Indian army does not!
Pakistani army carries out coups, Indian does not!
Pakistani army executes elected leaders, Indian does not!
By extracting the Mushy, one only attends to the surface problem. There is no evidence that you are addressing the cancer underneath.
Perhaps Arjun_m is right and ignoramus Pakistanis do live in a world of their own! Well, I got news for you. The light WILL get in there - no matter how tightly you shut your eyes.
Surviving Musharraf\'s Exit?
#334 Hmidm2
[ic-814? ..... what the heck is that ???!!!]
MiaN, it is the Pakistani edition of the day that shall forever live in infamy!
I am sure there are at least a couple of Pakistanis out there somewhere (perhaps on Neptune) with some conscience who actually have at least SOME guilt about it – for supporting that atrocity through a complicity of silence!
IC-814 was the precursor to 9-11 and the hands of the Pakistani establishment (and of wishy-washy Pakistanis like yourself) remain forever soiled with blood because of it.
But what is a little bit of blood for the children of the…
…never mind whose children!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 2, 2008 07:36 pm
#334 Hmidm2
[ic-814? ..... what the heck is that ???!!!]
MiaN, it is the Pakistani edition of the day that shall forever live in infamy!
I am sure there are at least a couple of Pakistanis out there somewhere (perhaps on Neptune) with some conscience who actually have at least SOME guilt about it – for supporting that atrocity through a complicity of silence!
IC-814 was the precursor to 9-11 and the hands of the Pakistani establishment (and of wishy-washy Pakistanis like yourself) remain forever soiled with blood because of it.
But what is a little bit of blood for the children of the…
…never mind whose children!
Surviving Musharraf\'s Exit?
#333 Tahmed
[where exactlhy did you see any pakistani concerned about winning hearts and minds of Indians?]
As usual, you read me all wrong. Kindly read my interact again. I do not do hearts and minds.
“….a real change in the direction of that country…”
The country in question is Pakistan.
As long as you guys keep following the same beaten old path, you are bound to come full circle.
Here is how it goes:
Civilian rule followed by corruption followed by distracting moves followed by “dushman across the border” followed by “strong army” followed by khakis-saying-we-are-the-saviors followed by tussle for power followed by the-guys-with-guns-winning!
And by the way…
I notice that you are putting in overtime bad-mouthing the Mushy. But Mushy was nothing – was never anything without the khaki institution/ISI behind him. I notice that you are VERY shy about saying anything against that institution.
Why don’t you bad-mouth the khakis – the REAL gaddars of the country?!
Perhaps the reason is – you LIKE what they do!
Again and again!
Posted by
bjkumar
Apr 2, 2008 07:23 pm
#333 Tahmed
[where exactlhy did you see any pakistani concerned about winning hearts and minds of Indians?]
As usual, you read me all wrong. Kindly read my interact again. I do not do hearts and minds.
“….a real change in the direction of that country…”
The country in question is Pakistan.
As long as you guys keep following the same beaten old path, you are bound to come full circle.
Here is how it goes:
Civilian rule followed by corruption followed by distracting moves followed by “dushman across the border” followed by “strong army” followed by khakis-saying-we-are-the-saviors followed by tussle for power followed by the-guys-with-guns-winning!
And by the way…
I notice that you are putting in overtime bad-mouthing the Mushy. But Mushy was nothing – was never anything without the khaki institution/ISI behind him. I notice that you are VERY shy about saying anything against that institution.
Why don’t you bad-mouth the khakis – the REAL gaddars of the country?!
Perhaps the reason is – you LIKE what they do!
Again and again!
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