Nipa Chowrangi
[are suspense and surprise really that essential to it anymore?]
Well, only if one wants regular folks to read the work.
Things could be different if the target audience is limited to a bunch of university-types gulping away wine in a hi-fi restaurant, or blowing cigarette smoke into everyone's eyes, or looking frizzled and bearded and unkempt and wearing thick reading glasses - well, perhaps THEY will be able to enjoy the turns and twists of what happened inside the HEADS of individual characters since the turns and twists of the EVENTS is already known, and so forth. I mean, such work may even get nominated for some award (by other individuals with thick reading glasses) - but the average joker will simply yawn!
Posted by
bjkumar
May 11, 2008 03:52 pm
Re: # 52[are suspense and surprise really that essential to it anymore?]
Well, only if one wants regular folks to read the work.
Things could be different if the target audience is limited to a bunch of university-types gulping away wine in a hi-fi restaurant, or blowing cigarette smoke into everyone's eyes, or looking frizzled and bearded and unkempt and wearing thick reading glasses - well, perhaps THEY will be able to enjoy the turns and twists of what happened inside the HEADS of individual characters since the turns and twists of the EVENTS is already known, and so forth. I mean, such work may even get nominated for some award (by other individuals with thick reading glasses) - but the average joker will simply yawn!
When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough
MiaN, given a choice, urstruly would not have a woman present even at his birth!
Somehow, nature arranged it otherwise! He perhaps resents that fact and has been trying to settle the score ever since.
Posted by
bjkumar
May 11, 2008 06:41 am
Re: # 26MiaN, given a choice, urstruly would not have a woman present even at his birth!
Somehow, nature arranged it otherwise! He perhaps resents that fact and has been trying to settle the score ever since.
Nipa Chowrangi
[Two lovers arriving at this point of despair,the story would require a lot of probation.]
Not to mention a REAL stretch in credulity!! :)
Let us face it, in the desi context most such marriages take place because those are arranged by others and they continue because women have little choice but to put up with "it". What has love got to do with it?!
Re: #46
[the first chapter in another novel, told backwards]
That would kill the suspense and surprise for sure! Unless one is a shrink and interested in obtaining an insight into the minds (which would be of questionable value since, after all, it IS fiction!), it would hold little interest.
Posted by
bjkumar
May 11, 2008 06:37 am
Re: # 47[Two lovers arriving at this point of despair,the story would require a lot of probation.]
Not to mention a REAL stretch in credulity!! :)
Let us face it, in the desi context most such marriages take place because those are arranged by others and they continue because women have little choice but to put up with "it". What has love got to do with it?!
Re: #46
[the first chapter in another novel, told backwards]
That would kill the suspense and surprise for sure! Unless one is a shrink and interested in obtaining an insight into the minds (which would be of questionable value since, after all, it IS fiction!), it would hold little interest.
When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough
MiaN, everything you attribute to the "wives who get beat up" are also applicable to males - (1) can not control tongue, (2) most annoying creature on the planet, (3) trying to act over-smart, etc.
Why don't the MEN get beat up?!!
The answer is simple, like much else within Pakistan, in the end it is the physical control and domination which wins there. And mullahs like you are active promoters of that mindset!
Posted by
bjkumar
May 11, 2008 05:58 am
Re: # 21MiaN, everything you attribute to the "wives who get beat up" are also applicable to males - (1) can not control tongue, (2) most annoying creature on the planet, (3) trying to act over-smart, etc.
Why don't the MEN get beat up?!!
The answer is simple, like much else within Pakistan, in the end it is the physical control and domination which wins there. And mullahs like you are active promoters of that mindset!
When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough
Dear hamzaad, I already elaborated the (guessed) reasons for the autor writing this piece in #3.
My GUESS is that Ms. Sarwari still carries a lot of guilt for not being able to do more than she did.
But it is easy for individuals like me (and perhaps you) to sit somewhere in a different country and pontificate. Unfortunately, when one runs into the REAL thing, it is a lot less easy.
First, one does not really KNOW the wife-beater. A violent man, if in bad mood enough, would not stop with his wife and would not spare innocent third parties who just happen to walk in by chance (as Ron Goldman unfortunately found out too late!).
Secondly, if you are yourself a woman, you are in a bit of the same weakened position as the victim being beaten up.
Third, if you complain, most people will only provide lip service. They will not do much against the wife-beater. There is a tendency to side with the man, using false logic like "she is no doodh-ki-dhoyee, either" etc. Some of these men may be afraid to do anything lest their own wife gets the "wrong ideas".
Fourth, the mullah will invariably take the man's side and he probably holds considerable sway.
Fifth, the law enforcement mechanism suffers from similar type of bias as most men in the society at large. Even if one finds a farishta law enforcement individual who cares and tries to bring the guilty to task - how the heck he can do without witnesses, evidence, etc. Without those, if he dispenses "justice" he is breaking the law himself, so how does that send a good message?
It is easy to talk about gelding the perpetrator but as most people know...
...human beings are far more complex than horses!
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 08:55 pm
Re: # 17Dear hamzaad, I already elaborated the (guessed) reasons for the autor writing this piece in #3.
My GUESS is that Ms. Sarwari still carries a lot of guilt for not being able to do more than she did.
But it is easy for individuals like me (and perhaps you) to sit somewhere in a different country and pontificate. Unfortunately, when one runs into the REAL thing, it is a lot less easy.
First, one does not really KNOW the wife-beater. A violent man, if in bad mood enough, would not stop with his wife and would not spare innocent third parties who just happen to walk in by chance (as Ron Goldman unfortunately found out too late!).
Secondly, if you are yourself a woman, you are in a bit of the same weakened position as the victim being beaten up.
Third, if you complain, most people will only provide lip service. They will not do much against the wife-beater. There is a tendency to side with the man, using false logic like "she is no doodh-ki-dhoyee, either" etc. Some of these men may be afraid to do anything lest their own wife gets the "wrong ideas".
Fourth, the mullah will invariably take the man's side and he probably holds considerable sway.
Fifth, the law enforcement mechanism suffers from similar type of bias as most men in the society at large. Even if one finds a farishta law enforcement individual who cares and tries to bring the guilty to task - how the heck he can do without witnesses, evidence, etc. Without those, if he dispenses "justice" he is breaking the law himself, so how does that send a good message?
It is easy to talk about gelding the perpetrator but as most people know...
...human beings are far more complex than horses!
When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough
Urstruly miaN, be candid with us. Did you or didn't you ever raise hands at Mrs. Urstruly?!
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 08:32 pm
Re: # 14Urstruly miaN, be candid with us. Did you or didn't you ever raise hands at Mrs. Urstruly?!
When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough
[I pray things change fast.]
Hurricane dear, the problem is too many people are busy "praying" instead of trying to address it - especially the mullahs who makes sure that women stay subservient!
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 08:31 pm
Re: # 12[I pray things change fast.]
Hurricane dear, the problem is too many people are busy "praying" instead of trying to address it - especially the mullahs who makes sure that women stay subservient!
When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough
There is a certain amount of bravery required in order to stick one's neck out, I have to grant this.
However, in this case, the half-hearted bravery may have been counter-productive.
(1) It proves to the lady being beaten up that she won't get any help even if she TELLS others that she is being beaten up. They will simply nod, say "oh - okay!" and walk away.
(2) The perpetrator (the beating husband) realizes that all he has to do is to keep it a bit down and the lady next door will be cool with it, because after all, she did nothing.
In fairness, it ought to be pointed out that very FEW people would want to get too involved. Most of them are too busy with their own problems.
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 08:28 pm
Re: # 11There is a certain amount of bravery required in order to stick one's neck out, I have to grant this.
However, in this case, the half-hearted bravery may have been counter-productive.
(1) It proves to the lady being beaten up that she won't get any help even if she TELLS others that she is being beaten up. They will simply nod, say "oh - okay!" and walk away.
(2) The perpetrator (the beating husband) realizes that all he has to do is to keep it a bit down and the lady next door will be cool with it, because after all, she did nothing.
In fairness, it ought to be pointed out that very FEW people would want to get too involved. Most of them are too busy with their own problems.
I Spy Hindutva
Look Vaibhav, maybe I was a bit too harsh on you yesterday. But the simple fact is - based on reading this piece, I strongly recommend you to focus on your studies more than mistakenly trying to solve the enigma that is Hinduism.
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 10:37 am
Look Vaibhav, maybe I was a bit too harsh on you yesterday. But the simple fact is - based on reading this piece, I strongly recommend you to focus on your studies more than mistakenly trying to solve the enigma that is Hinduism.
Nipa Chowrangi
Hamidm2 sahib, I don't know that clown. All I know is he showed up here, started bad-mouthing the writer and when I defended her (not that she needs it), miaN HP took umbrage and started calling me by choice terms!
You really think HE has common sense?! Perhaps so, but his sense of jealousy overcomes everything else, apparently.
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 08:34 am
Re: # 23Hamidm2 sahib, I don't know that clown. All I know is he showed up here, started bad-mouthing the writer and when I defended her (not that she needs it), miaN HP took umbrage and started calling me by choice terms!
You really think HE has common sense?! Perhaps so, but his sense of jealousy overcomes everything else, apparently.
Nipa Chowrangi
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 07:50 am
BTW, HP, I think YOU can not write worth a fart!
Nipa Chowrangi
Kambakhat, if that is true the darn thing is too subtle for me! :)
Re: # 18
Yaar HP, you are another absolute bhanDua in your own right! I did not mean to feel you left out, it is just that Tahir miaN needed some attention. Sorry!
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 07:35 am
Re: # 19Kambakhat, if that is true the darn thing is too subtle for me! :)
Re: # 18
Yaar HP, you are another absolute bhanDua in your own right! I did not mean to feel you left out, it is just that Tahir miaN needed some attention. Sorry!
I Spy Hindutva
Naqshbandi sahib, thanks for the clarification. I have no idea where I read about his emigrating to Pakistan - but I had always wondered how anyone writing those lines could actually emigrate! (But then, poets are notoriously unstable!)
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 04:38 am
Re: # 43Naqshbandi sahib, thanks for the clarification. I have no idea where I read about his emigrating to Pakistan - but I had always wondered how anyone writing those lines could actually emigrate! (But then, poets are notoriously unstable!)
Race to the Finish
Zeena, janitors are great people! South Asians need to have more respect for those who do manual work!
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 04:22 am
Re: #770Zeena, janitors are great people! South Asians need to have more respect for those who do manual work!
Race to the Finish
Little sis, the problem that many of these people (including those you characterize as "brown bhootnis") is they read too much into your individual words without making an attempt to see your intent in what you are trying to convey.
They go for the superficial - without trying to understand the deeper meaning.
Then they descend to gaali galauz! Such clueless individuals!
Pakistan3 (#773) is mistaken. Zeena, my little sis - is NEVER bitter...
She is merely outspoken - and she is no lurking coward!
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 04:19 am
Re: # 770Little sis, the problem that many of these people (including those you characterize as "brown bhootnis") is they read too much into your individual words without making an attempt to see your intent in what you are trying to convey.
They go for the superficial - without trying to understand the deeper meaning.
Then they descend to gaali galauz! Such clueless individuals!
Pakistan3 (#773) is mistaken. Zeena, my little sis - is NEVER bitter...
She is merely outspoken - and she is no lurking coward!
I Spy Hindutva
Mr. India, you are of course aware that the guy who wrote that song (Iqbal) left for Pakistan as soon as he got the chance?!!
Harimau is Harimau, but the point you miss is there is legitimate room for making the argument that the "seculars" in India are hypocrites whose rant is limited to beating up on the Hindus while letting all the Muslim fanaticism go undiscussed. It is entirely possible that the rise of the BJP and like-minded parties over the past two decades is more a result of the general population becoming wiser to that duplicity rather than anything else - including what these BJP wallas are saying.
Posted by
bjkumar
May 10, 2008 04:11 am
Re: # 40Mr. India, you are of course aware that the guy who wrote that song (Iqbal) left for Pakistan as soon as he got the chance?!!
Harimau is Harimau, but the point you miss is there is legitimate room for making the argument that the "seculars" in India are hypocrites whose rant is limited to beating up on the Hindus while letting all the Muslim fanaticism go undiscussed. It is entirely possible that the rise of the BJP and like-minded parties over the past two decades is more a result of the general population becoming wiser to that duplicity rather than anything else - including what these BJP wallas are saying.
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