The Vicious Circle of Violence Pmishra #115 {"#115 Posted by pmishra2 on March 25, 2008 8:28:22 am
salim-bhai please do not say stupid and senseless things like -

[quote]
The idol worshippers of Mecca were so overcome by the peaceful and bloodless conquest in 630 AD that they accepted Islam"}

Mishra Sahib,
My stupidity and senselessness have nothing to do with the accuracy of my statement. Indeed, the conquest of Mecca in 630 was bloodless. There have been several others in history.

The Vicious Circle of Violence #88 Posted by friend on March 24, 2008 5:07:58 pm
Salim Chauhan sahib #various

{"Sir you don't have to direct our attention to violence against muslims. This article's basic premise is that while Christians didn't honor their treaties, and killed muslims, muslims were in general verrrry peaceful and considerate of their minorities. Given this peaceful nature of muslims, what happened to idol worshippers who used to reside in Mecca, why fire-worshippers Parsi had to run to India, and why Bahai are persecuted in Iran? What is happening to Afgani minorities? and why Saudi Arabia still can not tolerate any idols?"}

Dear Friend,
I am pleased to note some good questions posed in one's own words from a thoughtful interactor. This is a delightful contrast to the rampant cut & paste rhetoric expressing the canned BPJ/RSS/VHP/BD/sS/JS/SP/MNS nonsense.

Your point about honoring treaties is a very good one. Being very observant of the written word, Muslims, at the time of the Crusades, were usually quite faithful in honoring their treaties. OTOH, the Crusaders were notorious for violating commitments when it suited them to do so - Richard the Lion-hearted with his cruel executions of POWs in Acre and the Knights Templar attacking the caravan that led to the demise of Jerusalem are in sharp contrast to the leniency of Saladin at the recapture of Jerusalem in 1187.

The idol worshippers of Mecca were so overcome by the peaceful and bloodless conquest in 630 AD that they accepted Islam. Of course many of their close relatives had already become Muslim by that time.

The Parsis abandoned Iran because of the Arab conquest. The same people who conquered Iran in the mid 7th century are the ones who conquered Syria, Palestine, and Egypt - all with huge Christian populations that were the majority well into the time of the Crusades. Even after the horrific Crusades and the defeat of the invading Christians, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine continued to have significant (15 - 25%) Christian populations.

Why Saudi Arabia cannot tolerate any idols is something that the extremist Wahabbis have to address. Islam forbids idolatry as the most serious of sins - as does Christianity and Judaism (read the full 1st Commandment), and thus an irrational and extremist interpretation would be that all idols are wrong. The Iconoclasts of the early Christian period destroyed and disfigured many of the beautiful sculptures of the Greek & Roman periods. In my opinon, and that of most Muslims in the world, statues, pictures, movies, are fine as long as we Muslims don't worship them. I have no problem with a Hindu worshipping a statue, a bird, a monkey, a snake, or a tree - to each his/her own. peace.

The Vicious Circle of Violence Jang,
Please don't lead me to any more wild good chases by posting links to pornographic sites. If you want my attention to focus on something worthwhile, please go the extra mile and post the pertinent information for my attention. Thank you.

The Vicious Circle of Violence Guru #75 {"Go to any city and check the police roaster. Muslims are disproportionately represented"}

Guru,
Could it be because of the massive discrimination against Muslims in education, employment in both the commercial and public sectors?

In many countries, the underprivileged are also the most inclined to take risks with the law. In the US, blacks occupy a disproportionate "advantage" in prison demographics.

A Great Day, A New Hope for Pakistan #5 Posted by meenug on March 20, 2008 4:45:16 am
{"Its haram to receive orders from woman according to sahih bukhari's hadeeths where prophet muhammed has confirmed this by saying those who take orders from women wont prosper ever..."}

Dear MeeNg sahib,
I mentioned your post to my very religious wife who ordered me to shut up and go back to sleep. Thanks for the slight encouragement, anyway.

The Vicious Circle of Violence Jang, #72 ,
Stop pussyfooting around. Did Thackeray Thok his bahoo or not?

The Vicious Circle of Violence #70 arjun {"At the risk of running afoul of godwin's law, I'm sure the fact that some nazi soldiers were killed during ghetto uprisings means that the jews and nazis killed the same number of people or are morally equivalent"}

Arjun,
What's the name of that disease - the one where merely comparing anything to Hitler or Nazis ensures winning an argument? LOL

I am saying that over the 8 or 9 months following the insurrection of Awami League in March, the Mukti Bahini killed a hell of a lot of non-Bengali AND Bengali supporters of Pakistan. So, go ahead an say that the paki army killed 3 million Bengalis and raped and impregnated 2 million bengali women - all this is silly exaggeration on your part. There was a lot of violence and much loss of life on both sides.

If there was such massive killing by the Paki Army, why didn't the Injuns try and convict the 90,000+ POWs that they had? Seems to me, then that either the Injuns were themselves implicated or they themselves didn't believe the exaggerated bullshit that somehow later generations of Injuns have just discovered.

The Vicious Circle of Violence #66, Pmishra,
shri Mishra Ji,
Of course you forget about the bloodless surrender of Mecca and the completely compassionate treatment of its citizens. You forget about the man who felt the need to ask about a woman's health just because she neglected to dump garbag on his head as she did daily. You have not heard or read about the man's Last Sermon at Arafat. Listen, if you want to make a moster out of him, you have every right. Fortunately, and unfortunately for you, there will be billions of people who will continue to consider him God's Mercy to Mankind (PBUH). Many have preceded you (Dante, Washington Irving, and Salamander Rushdie), so please get in line and wait your turn to hurl your garbage. He may even forgive you too.

Now, as to the number of Sikhs and Hindus in Pakistan, that is a real tragedy. There were mass migrations in both directions and massive killings - even in large urban centers like Lahore, Amritsar, and Patiala. East Punjab was completely wiped clean of Muslims even though the areas adjacent to Delhi constituted some of the oldest Muslim communities in India. Unfortunately, NWFP and West Punjab were made devoid of Sikhs and Hindus. Massive migration of Hindus from Sindh took place too.

Had the numerically-superior Hindus not made threatening taunts and had the influenc of Hindu Mahasabha on Congress Party not been that intimidating, there probably would not have been a partition and we wouldn't be saying "unfortuantely" over and over again.

The Vicious Circle of Violence arjun,
at least when the injuns bragged about banging monkeys and elephants and shit they drew pictures and put them in stone. Too bad they can't do the same with the fabricated tales of one-sided Pak Army killings with no violence from Mukti Bahini and Injuns.

The Vicious Circle of Violence arjun #64 {"yes...they killed the same number of people as the paki army..sure..maybe that's how it went down in your alternate reality.."}

Arjun,
...and yeah, you were right there keeping score of the killings - one Bengali, two bengalis, three .. . But only one Bihari, one Punjabi, and one Pathan.

Just because your "Made in Inja" bullshit says so doesn't make it so.

The Vicious Circle of Violence AJEYA #34,
Of course, you were there and you witnessed all that happening and the context of the horror was exactly as you described. My friend, you have been swallowing all that BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SS/SP/MNS bullshit without any filters.

The Vicious Circle of Violence {"one day mr baig will write an article on bal thackreys birthday"}

Jang,
Screw the old man's birthday (he has had one too many). Tell us more about his daughter-in-law.

The Vicious Circle of Violence Ajeya #38 {"jang, ...By the way, are you Muslim, or a "low caste" ex-hindu?"}

Ajeya,
Good observation, yaar. This fine specimen of Ghaati animal husbandry is an ex-high caste ex-Hindu who has now descended into becoming a non-observant lower-caste Sick Man of Chowk. Other than that he is a pretty good guy.

The Vicious Circle of Violence #56 arjun {"are we allowed to talk about the killings of hundreds of thousands of bangladeshis in 71 or is that not permitted in your alternate reality? "}

Arjun,
I am glad that you have scaled down the allegation from 3 million to hundreds of thousands, which is still very high. Of course we can talk about that. Many Pakistanis, myself included, condemn the stupid, wanton, unnecessary, and cruel loss of life that resulted from the Paki Army's occupation of East Pakistan. Of course, we must condemn the killings carried out by the terrorist (I guess that was before the word became fashionable) Mukti Bahini and their Indian supporters across the border.

The Vicious Circle of Violence Guru #52 {"And wherever Allah’s boys are dominant, women have to be careful. "}

Guru,
...and they say the same thing about the vice squad.

The Vicious Circle of Violence vengatramanan #53 {"Salim,
Why so much anger?... Your witty, driving-sense posts have dried...There are many others who can play your newly acquired avthar...Make sure, the Salim we knew manages to survive..."}

Ramanan sahib,
Not anger, just disappointment. Too many Indians are using anti-Islamic orgasms as a substitute for their own parched sex lives and not enough Indians are stopping their own countrymen from this pre-feticide genocide.