We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! nkg #147 {"Post 1990, Indians are more concerned about their economic prosperity, than what is happening elsewhere...."}

Dear nkg,
...and I share their concern. Between Indian whiz kids in the US, running our financial system into the ground with their greed for rapid commissions, and the Indian call center diplomats pissing off every customer, the economic prosperity of both countries is on the endangered list.

You better get used to converting Indian technology to sending high-tech e-mails to the citizens of this world in imitation of the success of the Nigerian whiz kids.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Arjun #131 {"how can chronology point to ANYTHING...
lets see...the sun rises, the sun sets, the sun rises, sun sets...bomb goes off outside the marriot..ergo, the chronology of events points to the sun..."}

Arjun,
Please don't distract yourself from counting "Pakiwhackers."
Logic is not your forte, but counting (as long as percentages are not used) becomes you.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Ijaz_gul #136

Ijaz Sahib,
Thank you for setting the historical record straight. If I am not mistaken, Gen. Zia seized power in a coup in 1977, hanged Bhutto in 1979, and was solidly on Iraq's side during the Iran-Iraq war lasting almost throughout the 80s. The Persian Gulf became the Arab Gulf despite there already being an Arabian Sea. And, of course Khuda Hafiz became Allah Hafiz - a desperately chauvinistic act of Arab hegemony in the Islamic world. Zia was a faithful servant of his Wahaboobi overlords. Didn't the covering of the head by PTV newsladies also occur during Zia's term? I have some weak recollection of this in the mid to late 80s.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! HP #130
The JI has never been a powerhouse in Pakistani elections. It gained influence primarily during the reign of Zia Ul Haque. Please don't blame the fabric of Pakistani society for the disproportional power of JI.

Zia used force and intimidation to change Pakistani society. Is it any wonder that his beneficiaries, the religious extremists from Lal Masjid to Bajaur are now using violence to win the minds and hearts of Pakistanis?

Unfortunately, they forget that minds and hearts are more useful when they are contained within living and breathing Pakistanis.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! nkg #142,
Yes, and Muslim fanatics are roving all over Orissa persecuting Christians, while you and your BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/Sp/SS goons look for ISI and Paki agents under every rock.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #132 Posted by cliftonbridge on September 24, 2008 5:16:53 pm

{"Hp is totally right about IJI only being a hop skip and jump from AQ. Extremism in Pakistan has been fostered by society at large and propped up by civilian and military leaders for that very reason."}

Cliftonbridge,
...and just how big a percentage of votes do the religious parties get during elections in Pakistan?

So, please don't blame the society at large for injecting religious extremism. Jinnah created Pakistan, a separate Muslim state, perhaps he too was a religious extremist. If you cannot distinguish between the institutionalized religious extremism of Zia and the so-called "secular" Islamic viewpoint of Jinnha, then you are contradicting yourself once again. The only way Zia succeeded in planting his mutated version of Soodi Islam was because of the power of the military.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #140 Posted by majumdar on September 24, 2008 9:05:39 pm
{"Salimbhai,

Both accurate and entertaining at the same time, an usual hallmark of all your FP articles. Will leave behind comments in details later, esp Kashmir-Hyd."}

Majumdar Bhai,

Thank you for your positive feedback and I look forward to your dependably polite and interesting comments.

I am rather disappointed by some of my usual detractors. Not one of them noticed the main theme of the article. They could not comprehend or refused to acknowledge that curbing military spending, restructuring the army on a national service model, and relying on tactical nuclear weapons, instead of the customary expensive toys, will help resolve many of Pakistan's problems.

Some of these Peter Luger vegetarians argued passionately in the defense of their respective sacred cows. One so-called Pakistani even suggested that just because Mahmud Ghaznavi destroyed Hindu temples, religious extremism was already present in Pakistan long before Zia enforced Nizam-e-Mustafa. Of course the fact that "Major Daddy" was part of the ruling clique did not prejudice this selectively logical expert on Pakistan.

Another Pakistani interactor, more resourceful than the first one, reconfigured historical events to prove that religious extremism was really a Karachi-based Mohajir conspiracy that forced Zia to become a pawn in their grip. Our very liberal Morse code enthusiast attributed the spread of extremism to the lack of razor blades in the rank and file of the Pak military.

Most of the Indians had a very simple suggestion for so-called "moderate" Muslim Pakistanis. Forget Kashmir, abandon Islam, and engage the extremists in one hell of a civil war. They really don't care who prevails as long as both sides lose with maximum losses.

Of course, like most things on Chowk, there is no absolute truth, logic, or vision. Everything is relative to one's personal agenda, personal associations, and the viewpoints of a person's allies and of course, whose ox is being gored.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! The problem with Pakistanis is that their support or opposition to issues and debates are tainted by their personal circumstances, their own personal agendas, and their personal relationships with the proponents or opponents of issues. Cliftonbridge is definitely pro-Pak military because of daddy mommy. HP is trying to pin the military support pin on the Karachi Mohajir donkey. Hamidumdum can't see beyond Urstruly's kosher beard. Maybe the terrorists will win, after all - the so-called "moderates" have to check with their bankers, financial advisors, families, boy friends, and mistresses before they can take sides on any issue.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #115 Posted by cyclone on September 24, 2008 3:01:08 pm

{"#113 Salim pi, iss hammam may sab hi nangay hain :) You're in Turkey and I'm in the US, and the doctors are in the US...so we are all sitting pretty outside of Pakistan. At least we love pakistan. "}

Cycle Cone Bhayya,
Au contraire mon frere. We are all in different form of undress. Some migrated as young children, some were born in diaspora, while others took full advantage of the meager medical instruction facilities of the poor country of Pakistan, got their training, and then rapidly absconded overseas, especially to USA, in pursuit of the almighty dollar, reneging on their hypocritical oath of serving the poor people of Pakistan. Of course, they used their daddy's influence, thank you military of Pakistan, to gain admission to these facilities in the first place.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Hamidumdum #124,
You can agree with HP and HP can agree with cliftonbridge who can agree with Chaltahai who can agree with Arjun, but the chronology of events points the finger directly at the Pakistani military establishment for creating, funding, recruiting, arming, and supporting the current breed of Tally Ban/Al Kayda extremists busy in the FATA area - yes the ones who seem to have blown up the Marriott and several other edifices.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Arjun #24 or #25 in post #119,

We don't have time for your "Pakiwhacking" nonsense. I am busy teaching HP not only about Indian geography, but Pakistan history.
Next, HP is going to learn financial market jargon from Choostahai.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! HP #120 {"Extremism starts from somewhere....JI was the first party in Pakistan to strongly support the afghan war. It was behind the recruitment and many JI followers took parts in the war. ...You need to read history."}

HP,
You are all over the place. JI was headed by Maulana Murdoodi - isn't that right? It was always a known fact that his organization was funded by US and CIA. Of course, whipping up public sentiment for Afghan War was in the American interest, and therefore JIs interest, and of course the Pak military's interest.

The Afghan Jihad started long afer Zia Ul Haq was in powerin Pakistan. Therefore, I am correct in stating that the Pak military is the one that has given us this shade of extremism. Of course there was extremism in pre-partition India with the "Ahmedi" issue and if we go back, extremists against Iqbal and Sir Syed Ahmed Khan. But the extremism haunting Pakistan today can be traced to Zia's zest. Perhaps you need to brush up on your history before you pontificate your views based on personal agendas. Don't forget that I still remember your knowledge of Indian geography. :) LOL

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! The Pak military and their brats talk big when it comes to "saving" and "serving" Pakistan. In reality, they are all using their influence to obtain foreign visas and somehow smuggle out their ill-gotten Rupees.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Cyclone Bhai,
Did you know that almost all the graduates of Agha Khan Medical College in Karachi are in the US? What happened to all the lofty goals of helping the poor, the downtrodden, those in the villages up north. These selfish cross-border opportunists took the first flight to the West.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Yes, Cyclone Sahib,
Let's return to discussing the topic - how the Pak Army and their spoiled brats have raped the country and are waiting in line converting their rupees into anything, even dollars, to "invest" abroad.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Cliftonbridge,
It's obvious that you have been sent here to sabotage this forum with your nonsense. Unless you have something serious or mature to contribute, I will politely request you to go back to Unplugged and entertain yourself with your sophomoric pleasures.