The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #100 Posted by anil on July 11, 2009 11:58:53 am
Re: # 92
{"Salim sahib:
{"You are painting is with an enormous brush, are you not being jingoist in that sense. Most people who have voted for BJP voted for right of center party and economic benefits that they can relate. There is no denial that BJP leadership is controlled by RSS cadre, and hence BJP is finding it difficult make transition. I do not believe that Modi would have won only on anti-Muslim platform. ... He went to Delhi to campaign for BJP in local elections, and BJP lost. This year he was kept out of sight from national election campaigns.

I can understand your frustrations and anger on such elements, but creating them, even in your mind, to be a bigger monster than they are is almost criminal negligence...."}

Anil Sahib,
I apologize if I have covered you and other noble Indian friends with the same paint I had prepared for our right-wing Hindutva friend, Stuka. When I said "you" I was addressing Stuka, so please excuse the unintentional wide brush. Rejecting the BJP coalistion twice is a tribute to the sophistication and wisdom of the majority of Indian citizens and I applaud that. As for creating a "bigger monster," yes I am guilty of criminal negligence. When violent, bloody, murderous, and perfidious criminals are allowed to rape, slaughter, mutilate, and burn innocent human beings - even run for office on that platform and get elected, re-elected, all the while flaunting democracy and justice, we do need to call them monsters. If this is criminal negligence, I hope the Indian conscience, if not its justice system, can bring the real criminals to some level of accountability.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #105 Posted by stuka on July 11, 2009 12:08:39 pm
{"Salim, I don't blame india for supporting Mukti Bahini and I don't blame pakistan for supporting Hizb and Jklf. ..Moral of the story is that you should do whatever is in your self interest biut first please define your own self interest. And that means that whereas the destruction of India may be a stepping stone to Pakistani self interest, in itself it cannot be self interest."}

Stuka,
Well I think that it was wrong for India to initiate this cycle of cross-border terrorism and meddling in a neighbor's internal problems. As for the destruction of India, I harbor no such desires. Being of Indian ancestry and a Rajput, I have affection and hope for my ancestral homeland. May God give wisdom to Indians and their leaders in helping to create a peaceful, prosperous, and just society.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #101 Posted by stuka on July 11, 2009 12:02:34 pm
{"Chalo, now I am bored. I will go home and watch my special anniversary edition dvd of Babri Masjid demolition that I got in return for my 200 dollar donation to the RSS."}

Stuka,
I am sure that you got your money's worth. If you send another $200 to Badrang Dal, I am sure you can get an uncut raw version of your heroes raping, slaughterin, mutilating, and burning little Muslim girls in Naroda Patya.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #70 Posted by Hindu_sikh on July 11, 2009 1:23:54 am
{"Satsriakal

salim chauhan ,really liked your article.Its always a pleasure to read the articles of cool headed secular pakistanis.....
On a different note,i really like pakistan .Afterall the present day pakistan had been the matrbhumi for my family since aeons.I even nurture a desire to pay a visit to my ancestoral village of Pakpattan in a few years when things improve.May god bless all three of our nations"}

Satsriakal, Hindu-Sikh Sahib,
...and may Allah bless you for your positive thoughts and wishes. I hope one day you will visit your ancestral homeland and possibly live there like your ancestors. :)

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #97 Posted by stuka on July 11, 2009 11:52:01 am
Goldfinger, ...We are whatever we are, but we are not pakis and we are not Muslims. You can do whatever you want in our country and you do whatever you want in yours, it is neither's business. We will continue to vote for BJP and you are welcome to support the Taliban."]

While you have given him permission to do whatever he wants in YOUR country, I am sure that Goldfinger would rather not interfere in your country. I hope that he/she is not interested in playing the Indira Gandhi/Mukhti Bahini/Bangladesh card - regardless of how justified that would be.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense {"#95 Posted by stuka on July 11, 2009 11:46:24 am
Salim: fair enuff. ...But no need to equate it with BJP then. Hinduism and Islam are two different religions. You decide what you are comfortable with and we decide for ourselves. No same same, no equivilancy."}

Stuka, I agree that there is no need to play the same same blame game. I only bring up the BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SP/SS when some of you Indians go off the reservation and need to be reminded of your own fallacies. The focus of my article was about fiscal accountability by our leaders, especially the Pak Army. It had nothing to do with the Indo-Pak rivalry that my Indian friends have introduced here. Peace!

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #69 Posted by Ballu on July 10, 2009 11:47:26 pm
{"Ok. Interacting after a long time because I am Chohan like you are. Yet, I agree and like your thought as an independent thinker who is not willing to accept something just because it is great way to 'fit in'.
Now you are totally 'unlike' your ancestors. Brave man.

-- coming from a horrible hindoo as you may put it. But this is the type that might kick your butt when needed. "}

Ballu Sahib,
If you are Ballu Khan of yesteryear, welcome back! Good to hear from you again. I speak my mind and yes, I am not running for election in any locale. My criticism of the Pak Army is only intended to strengthen it through fiscal accountability and renewed public support.

As for kicking my butt, my fellow Chauhan, make sure that you don't hurt your leg in the process - you will need both legs when I repay you for your kindness. :)

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #68 Posted by Goldfinger on July 10, 2009 11:44:10 pm
{"Re: # 67

stuka says: "You are evading the main point. If BJP for Hindus is same as Taliban for Muslims, why do you Muslims have a problem with Taliban?"

The answer is obvious for all to see, except for the mentally challenged...that the "MAJORITY" of Hindus are hate-mongers, while the minority of the Muslims are like them...and I'm saying this as an unbiased spectator who is all for agnosticism, secularism etc."}

Dear Goldfinger,
What an appropriate response to someone who is obviously loitering to exploit our genuine self-criticism for his own ulterior agenda! I applaud your lack of patience with this fishy fisherman of troubled waters.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #67 Posted by stuka on July 10, 2009 11:11:14 pm
{"If BJP for Hindus is same as Taliban for Muslims, why do you Muslims have a problem with Taliban? "}

Because most Muslims are not jingoists who see only glitter in the fool's gold bathtub containing their own bath water. We have a problem with Tally Bans because most of us feel that they do not represent our religion or our views. You don't have a problem with the BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SP/SS because this grouping of chauvinists represents your views.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense Stuka #59{"Some more genius type comments. The bjp rss etc are being compared to taliban etc. Arrey bhai, bjp has ruled at center and continue to rule in many states. They may not be acceptable to Muslims but they are acceptable to Hindus."}

You are confusing mob rule with democracy. Electing hatemongers and violent people to office and then re-electing them after they have executed their hatred and orchestrated the rape, slaughter, mutilation, and burning of thousands of innocent human beings, including men, women, and children, is not democracy - not even when it is practiced by the world's 2nd most populous nation.

On the one hand, Indians seem to frantically proclaim their democratic credentials. Then, with the other side of their mouth, they want to justify fascism, jingoism, extremist Hindutva mantras. This is what I call INDIA SHUNNING and for their own good, the Indians need to overcome this duplicity.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #59, Please come back and interact as an adult when you are sober. There are enough typos in your post to warrant subjecting you to a breathalyzer test.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #57 Posted by KHYBER on July 10, 2009 5:19:47 pm
{"Besides Z.A.BHUTTO's many achievements,I think his biggest mistakes were ignoring his comrades who had socialists views and declaring AHMADIS non Muslims"}

Khyber Sahib,
Let's not go overboard with ZAB's mistakes. Ignoring socialists was the right thing to do and he lashed out at AHMADIS because they lost the '71 war - almost the entire military hierarchy of Pakistan was AHMADI at that time.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #55 Posted by hamidm2 on July 10, 2009 4:42:57 pm
{"actually it started even before zia ...... it all started when zulfiqar ali bhutto gave in to the mullahs and shut down the liquor store on canning road in rawalpindi .......... that is when the nation (ummah) started drinking the bad islamic hooch which made them go blind .......... "}

Hamidumdum Sahib,
LOL and there is a lot of truth in your allegation. Bhutto (and his Bengali imitator, Mujib) were both successful in riling up an otherwise bored nation with their rhetoric which was so loud that it broke the nation into two. Of course, the orators soon followed with their own demise. Allowing liquor stores to function actuall keeps such outbursts of drunken and pious sobriety in check.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #54 Posted by KHYBER on July 10, 2009 4:25:55 pm
{"Well it was started during Zia regime when Soveits red army was marching in Kabul,it was REAGON,CHARLIE WILSON,ZIA,HAMID GUL, ISI,CIA,SAUDI ARABIA WHO created these monsters,as far BENAIZR and General Naseerullah Babar are concerned for supporting Afghan Taliban,lets not forget that civilian Govts cant do anything against the wishes of ISI and ARMY."}

Khyber Sahib,
Couldn't agree with you more, my friend. Of course, all potholes in our National Highway of doom lead to Zina Owl Hag. We can blame him for "Allah" Hafiz, Wahaboobism, Burkas, imitation Arabic, Zakat tax, and throwing a nasty necktie party for ZAB. May he rot in hell because from the pictures I have seen of this tyrant, he wore his shalwars all the way down well below his ankles even below his heels.

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #50 Posted by dost_mittar on July 10, 2009 9:16:40 am
{"Salim:... The BJP is a conglomerate of many people - some ideologues, some opportunists, some bigots and some outright goondas. Even though its current leader was responsible for creating the hysteria that led to the demolition of the masjid and Modi's govt. allowed the massacre of innocent Muslims, there is nothing in the party program which supports such acts. Both Modi and Advani are still subject to legal action...And there is of course a distinction between those who are creating problems for themselves and those who are creating problems for outsiders..."}

DM Sahib,
The BJP also has murderers in its conglameration of evil people. No party programs is going to clearly indicate that it stands for the rape, slaughter, mutilation, and burning of a minority - but the fringe elements of the party are encouraged and even supported in the execution of their dastardly deeds. It has been almost 17 years since the Babri Masjid was demolished and seven years since Modi unleashed his goons on innocent Indian citizens and we are still waiting for "legal action." I have heard of slow justice but never heard of snail justice. As for domestic vs external acts of violence, I fail to understand your preference of one over the other. The Helsinki Convention, of which I hope India is a signatory, allows the world to be concerned about human rights violations - anywhere on this planet. If Milosevich, Karadjic, and the Hutu hooligans can end up in DeHague, why not Modi or even Advani?

The Landlords of Defence To Pakistan\'s Defense #44 Posted by BChellaney on July 10, 2009 8:54:05 am
{"Salim Sahib,
I have interacted with you a few years ago on this board on a different avatar. I used to think you are one of the sanest voices (right next to DMji), if not --the-- sanest voice. Alas, I see you are a different person, with lots of anti-India hostility...DMji is referring to groups coming to kill people in a neighbouring country and you respond by blathering about groups who indulge in violence in their own country.

I thought the tuberculous leader got you a separate country?
Or are you still part of India?..
If I understand correctly DMji is asking about Punjabi Muslims coming to India to shoot and bomb unarmed muslim and Hindu citizens of India. You respond by talking about Guharati Hindus killing Gujarati Hindus in India? "}
Isn't this intellectual dishonesty of highest calibre or what? Does it EVER occur to you such dishonesty and double standards are the source of growth of the very groups you talk about?"}

BChellaney Sahib,
Welcome back and good to interact with you again - just wondering about your former identity. :)

No, sir, I am not being dishonest or anti-Indian. I love India and have never been a fan or follower of the "TB" victim. I sympathize with his ailment, but don't support his resorting to partition.

What you probably don't observe objectively is my unbiased and unrestricted aversion to violence, hatred, and slaughter - be it domestic or foreign. When it comes to Hindus killing Hindus, whether Gujarati or Bengali, I am just as upset as when Muslims kill Hindus, Hindus kill Muslims, or the most common occurrence of Muslims killing Muslims.

My attempts to shake Indians loose of their commitment to jingoism is what upsets you - please be honest.