We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #60 Posted by cliftonbridge on September 24, 2008 10:50:44 am

{"Foreign policy based on paranoia against india and religious extremism is something the masses are equally guilty of.

If people are complaining now its simply because the masses do not want to not pay the price of their own prejudices and want a bail out. ... The bubble burst - thats all that happened. "}

Cliftonbridge,
I apologize for not having responded earlier to your other points expressed above.

The paranoia against India and religious extremism are both primarily the result of the Pak Army's interference in the governmental, social, religious, commercial, and financial aspects of Pakistan. If the country had not been made so paranoid against India, how would Pakistan ever justify such a lop-sided ratio of military capacity vs national resources? This paranoia was manufactured by the military in throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s, and even in this decade to justify the miitary expenditures - or to put it simply JOB SECURITY.

We all know that religious extremism, almost nonexistent until 1970s, what injected into the Pakistani psyche by none other than "President" Zia Ul Haque, who was also a General of the Pak Army, if you didn't already know that.

All your rhetoric regarding bailouts and bubbles bursting is merely your own paranoia about the current meltdown of the financial world in NYC. Thanks for your noteworthy comments.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #60 Posted by cliftonbridge on September 24, 2008 10:50:44 am

{"Salim nicely written but not completely true. The enemy is us but not just the ones of "us" in khaki."}

Cliftonbridge,
Please see my response to Quin in #38. By the way, I am not in khaki and yes I am in "us."

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! thinkingstorm #58 {"Salim pi,

please ignore chalta's and pinkus....it is just an attempt to derail the conversation into the old stalemate pakistani-indian arguments.

Let us discuss the topic at hand...
with much respect,
thinking storm "}

TS Pi,
As usual, thank you for restoring the equilibrium. Yes, we need to focus on:
1. Reducing our defense budget
2. Transforming the current model to a national service based one BOTH men and women serving their country.
3. Ensuring that Pakistan and its people are safe from external aggression and internal terrorism.
4. Allowing our elected representatives to make wise decisions that will fulfill the aspirations of the people without suppressing the rights of individuals and minorities.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #54 Posted by Pardesi on September 24, 2008 10:35:23 am
{"Salim, nice article

It's funny how both sides feel cheated. Hindu view has been that the Muslims got their own country and they have not left India completely and are here for another slice of India some time later. In fact during 60s' riots, a popular slogan by Muslims use to be "Baant ke liya hai Pakistan, Ladd ke lenge Hindustan".

Seriously though, time has come for all patriotic Pakistanis to think about action if they want to save their secular Pakistan. Fundo Pakistanis are already in action mode while the so called secular elites are still in 'ultimate objective' definition stage."}

Dear Pardesi,
When it comes to slogans and irrational chants, Muslims and Hindus (among others) need some professionally scripted lines. Even Sarah Palin delivers pretty good rhetoric when someone else has done the thinking. You already know how I feel about partition - IT WAS NOT NECESSARY.

As for Pakistan, it appears that all our 'sincere' friends want us to fight an all-out civil war. That is exactly the solution that most rational and progressive Pakistanis are trying to avoid.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! CreateAlpha #53 {"achcha, so discussing partition logic is equivalent to bringing in Modi. sounds like someone's crazy"}

Chalta,
No, it was the discussion of raping and pillaging that set off the automatic Modi sprinkler system. I don't think he orchestrated all that mayhem, death, rape, destruction, and slaughter because he was simply crazy.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #49 Posted by pinku on September 24, 2008 10:22:43 am

{"Salim,
Till Islamic ego is ready to liberate places like Kashmir and eager to devour them, nothing can help you. Your reason and rationality will not work because it is subservient to Islamic ego (doesn't exist in front of that ego).

Pinku, all my responses to your comments are in BOLD.

My ego is not Islamic, just as yours is not Hindu. Ego by definition is something very personal.

{"Who the hell are you to liberate Kashmir?? Haven't you already done too much by liberating Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afganistan?? Go and liberate Saudi Arabia from Islam??"}"}

Obviously I am not doing enough to liberate Kashmir. However, the Kashmiris may demonstrate more zest in this noble task. Pakistan, Bangladesh are already free. Afghanistan and Soodi Arabia do require some help in becoming free. Thank you for pointing out the unfinished business.

{"People in south asia need to be liberated from Islamic ego and arab slavery (Ummaha). Once that happens everything will fall in order. It is slaevry of that identity of those who got converted by force/rape/lies/deception that create all the troubles."}

Fine, but what are we going to do about the hundreds of millions who are suffering in actual subservience to upper castes in India? I am sure that Arabs will be amazed at the number of slaves they own in South Asia - something like 500 million! The good thing about Modi was that he and his goons participated in rape/slaughter/mutilation/arson withtout the added insult of trying to convert their victims.

{"Unfortunately video camera didn't get invented early, else all we needed to show was the rape/killing of your ancestors in bulk to help you understand what you protect and for what end."}

Pinku,
Video cameras were already invented by 2002 and Modi and his BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SP/SS goons did videotape their looting/arson/murder/rape/mutilation/burnings of Muslims to help us all understand the truth behind Indian secularism, justice, and kindness - Jai Ram!

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #49 Posted by pinku on September 24, 2008 10:22:43 am

{"Salim,
Till Islamic ego is ready to liberate places like Kashmir and eager to devour them, nothing can help you. Your reason and rationality will not work because it is subservient to Islamic ego (doesn't exist in front of that ego).

Pinku, all my responses to your comments are in BOLD.

My ego is not Islamic, just as yours is not Hindu. Ego by definition is something very personal.

{"Who the hell are you to liberate Kashmir?? Haven't you already done too much by liberating Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afganistan?? Go and liberate Saudi Arabia from Islam??"}"}

Obviously I am not doing enough to liberate Kashmir. However, the Kashmiris may demonstrate more zest in this noble task. Pakistan, Bangladesh are already free. Afghanistan and Soodi Arabia do require some help in becoming free. Thank you for pointing out the unfinished business.

{"People in south asia need to be liberated from Islamic ego and arab slavery (Ummaha). Once that happens everything will fall in order. It is slaevry of that identity of those who got converted by force/rape/lies/deception that create all the troubles."}

Fine, but what are we going to do about the hundreds of millions who are suffering in actual subservience to upper castes in India? I am sure that Arabs will be amazed at the number of slaves they own in South Asia - something like 500 million! The good thing about Modi was that he and his goons participated in rape/slaughter/mutilation/arson withtout the added insult of trying to convert their victims.

{"Unfortunately video camera didn't get invented early, else all we needed to show was the rape/killing of your ancestors in bulk to help you understand what you protect and for what end."}

Pinku,
Video cameras were already invented by 2002 and Modi and his BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SP/SS goons did videotape their looting/arson/murder/rape/mutilation/burnings of Muslims to help us all understand the truth behind Indian secularism, justice, and kindness - Jai Ram!

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #48 Posted by CreateAlpha on September 24, 2008 10:15:58 am
{"He went to india because the ghazis were unleashed to rape adn pillage like their ancestors before them. get some perspective. It is gone now...no use crying over spilled milk."}

Chalta,
I don't quite understand the context, but if you can't do anything about the rapes and pillage perpetrated by Modi and his BJP/RSS/VHP/BD/JS/SP/SS goons in 2002, how can you be serious about the alleged ancestral rape and pillage from years gone by?

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #47 Posted by _arjun24 on September 24, 2008 9:54:56 am
{"No...The Indian position is "what I can keep, I'll keep..and there's not a damn thing you can do about it"..
life's unfair..get over it.."}

Arjun,
I am so confused between the good Arjun and the bad one, that friendship with you is at stake. :)
Of course, life's unfair, but, unlike football or baseball, there is no 4th quarter or 9th inning or even a time limit. The Muslim philosophy is to accomplish as much justice as you can in your own lifetime and then to pass the baton to the next generation and so on. So, my friend, I can guarantee you that Kashmir will be free - ONE DAY!

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #27 Posted by Kulharee on September 24, 2008 8:38:46 am
{"Dear Salim, the additional paragraph changes everything. Why bring Kashmir into the equation of how corrupt our Army is? Don’t you think that they are the one who use Kashmir as an excuse for their continued looting and betrayal of our country? What are we going to do with Kashmir that we haven’t done with Baluchs, the Pathans, the FATAs, the Ahmadis, and so on? Kashmir should stay where it is, and may I suggest that you recite Taran-e-Hindi at the end of your article:"}

Dear Kulharee,
You know my perspective on the issue of partition. So, I have no problem with reciting the bulbul taran taran anytime. Sir Allama Iqbal was a man of many visions. This article, including the last paragrpah that was somehow dropped, is written from the perspective of a Pakistani patriot trying to correct the harm done by successive regimes of military rulers - well-meaning in the beginning, but quite demeaning in the ending.

Kashmir is a sore spot for all concerned. While I am against partition, I am also against the unfair resolution of Hyderabad/Junagadh and Kashmir problems. The Indian position seems to be "heads I win, tails you lose." The former two states went to India because they had Hindu majorities despite the wishes of their Muslim rulers. The latter state went to India because it had a Hindu ruler who signed the instrument despite his state having a Muslim majority.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #23 Posted by jang on September 24, 2008 8:25:00 am
{"salim yar, what has changed? has army stopped being in the service of islam? they have really become unpopular somehow."}

Jang,
The report card just came in and it doesn't look good!
Don't worry, this one's not your fault. :)

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! thinkingstorm #21 {"However, given the two evils, Musharraf was the lesser evil compared to the inept aholes we called politicians.
Anywho...we gotta start somewhere...
with much respect,
thinking storm"}

TS Pi,
Yes, in 1999, Mushy seemed to be the lesser evil. But just like fish, benign dictators start getting smelly and undesired very rapidly. Mushy was on stage for too long and the flowers and applause were bound to transform into tomatoes and jeers.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #20 Posted by thinkingstorm on September 24, 2008 7:50:32 am
{"Salim pi,
an insightful article. Indeed the army is the root of a lot of our misery.
the chowkidar is indeed looting the house
with much respect,
thinking storm"}

TS Pi,
Thank you for your kind feedback. Some would call it "inciteful." LOL
I think that we should be our own chowkidars - a national service army is what we need.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #19 Posted by chaltahai on September 24, 2008 7:28:35 am
{"Nice article....still a lot of blame displacement. There are four pillars of pakistan..tHe feudals, the army the mullahs and the abduls...at any given time the first three have sex with one or the other but the abduls get FK'd...it is just not the army."}

Chaltahai,
Thank you for reading and commenting. Just like any other country, Pakistan has its pillars - and, as usual, the average Joe gets holding the bag, whether it's Wall Street or Ataturk Avenue or Jinnah Ave. I agree that it's not just the army, but when it has reigned for 34 of Pakistan's 61 years, it must get the lion's share of the blame.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! Banneditem # 18 {"Salim,
Nice article, but you left my favorite actors in the pakistani crisis, namely the mullah and how mullahs have been used both by civilians and military establishments for thier personal/political gains."}

Dear Banneditem or Verji,
You are right about the oversight. But, did you honestly think that I would risk a bum wake up call the next time I check into a Marriott? The Pak Army is a much softer target for my venom at the misfortunes facing Pakistan.

We Have Met the Enemy and the Enemy is Us! #17 Posted by hamza_yusufzai on September 24, 2008 6:46:16 am
{" nicely done Salim "}

Hamza,
Shukriya - aap ki inaayat he.