Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India #215 Posted by masanamuthu:

I find your "thinking" close to that of Kaal and Naqshbandi. A long time back, Naqsh said that Hindus survived under the Moghuls because the Moghuls did not want to do away with them. Sir, the point is that the Moghuls could not have done so even if they wanted to. Today, irrespective of what HP thinks, Muslims in India cannot be gotten "rid of" by Hindutva types. Forget others, Muslims by themselves will not allow that to happen. Similarly, minorities in Bengal and Assam cannot be gotten "rid off". Not today and not in the future.

Lessons have been learnt from Partition and Kashmir.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India #204 Posted by HP,

HP:

"... the majority’s obsession with the minority ..."

You are over-reacting. I do not blame you as you are basing your opinion on "news" etc. Hindutva types are not the majority, nor are they dominant.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Kaal:

yaar i am banging my head against a wall. You say:

"....whatever they decide (when they have power) - good or bad - will be whatever they want..."

1. Who are the "they"?
2. Why won't Muslims in a Muslim majority Bengal say join CPM, Congress, JD etc. and politically fight it out? Don't say things like "Historically we know....". Historically we know shit.
3. Even if the Muslims in a Muslim majority Bengal were to elect the Jamaat-this-or-that, do you think that the Jamaat will get to implement all that it wants? Did the BJP get to implement all that it wanted?
4. Suppose Muslims in a Muslim majority Bengal were to organize themselves to fight your "Hindu" India, what will happen? What has happened in Kashmir? People will die. Well, sir, the fact of the matter is that people are dying anyways .... whether or not Muslims are in a majority in Bengal.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India I only deny the assertion that "All Muslims always act as a group". I also deny the assertion that Muslim majority implies Islamic rule (whatever it means).

Such assertions, by communal parties, have brought about suspicion and hatred inevitably leading to a lot of pain and bloodshed. The fact that hatred and bloodshed are real does not mean that the above mentioned assertions are true.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India kaal bhai:

".... once Muslims are in majority anywhere they..."

Sorry, I do not accept the premise that if Muslims (or any other religion for that matter) are a majority they need to or will necessarily act as a group.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Kaal bhai:

Aaj sach me aap ne pi rakhi hein.

" Make a sysmtem that YOU think is as fair and just as possible, according to YOUR idea of justice and fairness, and enforce it as equitably and justly as you can afford, in good faith."

When one YOU is involved in this process we call it dictatorship. Many times this "YOUs" positions are put forth in terms of objective morality with religeous/ideological sanctions. It is still dictatorial. Like you say an ideal state is not possible. So lets not try to get there.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Mohar:

"...there is atleast one more -..."

Yaar, you are so predictive ... FV is a fighter, not a sulker.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Kaal bhai,

Muslims will become a majority in Assam and Bengal only after these states become truly secular with strong institutions that commit to a secular future. Being an optimist I see political parties realizing this. But my realistic side tells me that a lot of people are going to die. Most of the dead will be poor Muslims.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Kaal:

"If Hindus want to be the first ones to satisfy Muslims ..."

I love the way you give ownership of India to the Hindus.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Mohar:

"instead, muslims confine themselves in the ghetto - both physically and mentally and just sulk about it..."

They do? Except for the guy who writes for Dawn, I haven't seen sulking.

"... when things boil over - start riots and violence in name of injustice and what not..."

This is not bad. In uncivilized countries this ought to happen till people realize that there ain't any point killing each other. Seen "Gangs of Nueva York"? The govt., however, should not take sides like it did in Gujrat.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Dear tahmed sahib,

Muslims in India are not going around crying "hey we are victims". Some Muslims, like some Brahmans, etc. maybe .... but these are exceptions. Now demanding affirmative action (through political power) is not "playing the victim". It is "demanding" .... same as Ambani "demanding" subsidies, or a share of the noooclear pie. Actually, Muslims are far behind other groups in demanding affirmative action. I wish they were more assertive.

Dhokha and Being a Muslim in India Mohar ....,

"DM continues feeding into the widespread muslim petulance by harping on the "promises"... but ther reality is that Nobody promised anybody a damn thing... nobody owes muslims a damn thing..."

D_M patronises. Muslims stayed back because they wanted to OR because it was not feasible for them to move to Pakistan. People are not fools, they do not believe politicians. Plus, no-one needs to do good to "them". IMs, like others, will have to do well for themselves.

By the way, mohar why do you surprise me once in a while?

A Fatal Act-Bad News for India Pakistan Relations HP,

A bunch of Soviet trained elites (Ike for some reason turned Afghanistan down), a bunch of cut-throat ruffians patronized by these elites and a few experimenting feudal nawabzadas made up the "Left" in Afghanistan. There is nothing to discuss about their "policies" .... I see them as a class of partying and murdering good-for-nothings .... who tried to implement certain ad hoc "orders" from the SU but failed miserably. There is nothing to discuss here as failure to implement without organization is obvious. You cannot compare their "implementations" with those by Nasser or Indira Gandhi. Even Salvadore Allende had a better organization. The "Left" in Afghanistan was a joke.

BUT, as pavo correctly informs us, what survives today is much more mature and effective ... and even then is worthless, relative to the other players.

A Journey Interrupted: Being Indian in Pakistan by Farzana Versey Mohar:

"Farzana's identity crisis and confusion leads her to identify with taliban and reach all sorts asinine conclusions - arjun has ...."

I believe that both you and arjun are deeply in love with FV ... but do not have the guts to ask her out for chai.

A Journey Interrupted: Being Indian in Pakistan by Farzana Versey tahmed sahib,

Now, now .... you are being naughty again. Where is the Mrs.?

A Journey Interrupted: Being Indian in Pakistan by Farzana Versey ts,

"While some (arjun and mohar) think that these folks are anti indian, they may indeed be the very thing that makes india shine....so you see...the comment of "intellectual giants amongst an ocean of mental midgets""

Got you!! I disagree though about arjun and mohar being mental midgets and Arundhati and FV being intellectual giants. But you and I can live with such disagreements. By the way .... had there been no arjuns and mohars there would be no FVs and vice versa!