Attack in Mohmand TehsinA #: ...."It is an unrealistic expectation that you can go out to Jihad but then can scurry back to safety at home. You have to understand that if you go and hit other people don’t be shocked when they come and destroy you. You don’t want to listen to us then go ahead and face the music. This is your fault and you have brought it upon yourself...."

....isn't this exactly what OBL tells the Americans......you seem to have taken a page out of his book......

......if everyone follows this logic, then the whole world has had it.....

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad zeemax #: "It wasn't the State which decided. There was a democratically elected Parliament which decided i.e. the people of Pakistan..."

...there is nothing in islam, which allows any state to declare anyone a muslim or a non-muslim......in fact, islam does not even cater to the concept of states....it defines all muslims to be a part of a union called ummah.......

.......even within an ummah, islam does not give any human being (or groups of human beings) the authority to declare anyone a non-muslim......

this authority is reserved with Allah......it has never been delegated to humans.....

kindly go through the Quran and try to find any mechanism or any individual or group of individuals, who can declare someone a non-muslim......

being declared a muslim or non-muslim is, purely, a political phenomenon.......if pakistan was 95% ahmedi and 5% sunni, then sunnis would be declared non-muslim.......

one can consider someone to be a non-muslim at a personal level......however, islam does not honor the idea of states declaring individuals to be non-muslims.......

Who Moved My Cheese majumdar #: ......one can only comment based on one's personal experiences and whatever one reads.......though personal experiences are far more important.....

.....there was a time, when, like hamid and tahmad etc. i also used to think that usa was the ultimate......and like urstruly, i was thinking of living there for the rest of my life....

...more than anything moving to canada had a big impact on me......moreso than even moving from pakistan to usa......it allowed me to see how a more equitable distribution of wealth can create a more prosperous social system, even if the net wealth creation is a less than a neighboring country.....

......i think communism is a failure......not because it is inherently a wrong idea......but because it relies on inflated beaurecracies to create and distribute wealth.....such beurecracies, inherently, become fat, corrupt, inefficient and uncompetitive......

......money should be generated through capitalism.....it is the only way to truly compete internationally..

....for those with an islamic persuasion, islam as a religion, was founded by capatilist businessmen.....muhammad worked for his wife, who was a capatilist.....abu bakr and usman were capitalists.......muhammad in today's world would be the equivalent of a regional sales manager of an import export company.....abu bakr, perhaps a stock broker, and khadija and usman ceo's of multinationals......

........however, where changes need to occur is in the distribution of wealth......wealth needs to be distributed in a fashion, where, at the very least, every single citizen has the same access to health, education and justice......if that is achieved, everyone will have a shot at success....

in that sense, amongst developed countries, canada is the prime example....its capatilist in wealth generation.....its small business taxes are actually lower than usa......but socialist in wealth distribution.....everyone from a billionaire to a pauper line up in hte same line for govt. health services......and anyone who can get into its top universities, can get 100% loans to pay for the education......

amongst developing countries, i cannot really see any examples......either they are following outright communism or outright capatilism......

i think pakistan should be capatilist, with a strong private sector.......but totally communist in wealth distribution......the state should own the health and education sector.......with totally equitable distribution of spending from village to city.........

Who Moved My Cheese churchill said, "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains"

i happen to be going in the opposite direction.....

......the older i get and the more i travel, the more i am moving away from the idea that capitalism is the best way to go, for everyone.......

....the most capitalistic country i have seen is the usa....yet the best social setup i have seen, by a wide distance, is canada....canada, in terms of economic setup is somewhere in between the capitalism of usa and the socialism of europe......

i cannot imagine a katrina type incident ever occuring in canada, where one ethnic group is left out in the cold......nor can i imagine the homelessness and violence that occurs in usa, occur in canada......

this is despite the fact that usa is wealthier than canada....

however, both canada and usa are, on the whole, good places to live......where the real debate needs to occur is in poor countries.....

..india and china are the flavor of the month, when it comes to capitalism and poverty......yet communist states like cuba (and formerly commmunist states) like russia rank far higher than both in human development......

cuba is 51st and russia is 67th......while india and china are 128th and 81st.......

.......i think there is a certain amount of socialism (bordering on communism) that is needed for third world countries.......they should only shift to capitalism, when they have reached a certain level of egalatarian development......

....at the heart of this is education and health.....i think all third world countries need to be totally socialist (and communist if need be), when it comes to these two factors.....every citizen of every country should have access to the same type of education and health care....

it is only after getting access to these two factors that everyone can compete in a, "winner takes all" capitalistic environment.....

there are two other factors also....one is a very effective legal system, which protects the rights of the weak in the society, and the other are strong labor unions, which can protect the rights of labor......

so, specifically to pakistan......pakistan needs to, first and foremost ensure education, healthcare, justice and labor rights to all citizens, in a socialistic and communistic manner........after that it can switch to capitalism.......

otherwise, it will end up as a society where a few individuals can make six figure salaries and have time to discuss mundane affairs on chowk, while 90% of the country can barely make a decent living.......

so free and/or equitable education and healthcare for all......if we can do that then maybe we will reach the hdi level of cuba at 51, from where we are today at 136......a jump of 85!!!

.....this, of course, should not be equated with the nationalisation of the bhutto era......it means, the state spending all its revenues on education/healthcare/justice/labor in an equal manner across villages and cities......the kid living in tando allah yar and the guy living in karachi, should be going to the same hospital and the same school, and the same court......

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice masanamathu#: "inheritors of Mughal legacy.."

...i am not sure if it implies inheritors of mughal legacy.......it does imply a legacy of british politics......

....pakistan politics, and hence political leadership has not had a chance to mature beyond british politics......under british politics, the local politicians, primarily showed defiance to the establishment, i.e. british.....they were sent to jail regularly, which made them popular.....

the british have been replaced by the army/beuracracy establishment.....voters are the same.....and politicians are in-between.......

they are, actually, all politicians who shine in opposition......and fail in power.....primarily because they have never had power, and thus haven't had a chance to grow.......for all of the talk about ppp being the largest party in pakistan (which it is)......it has only really had elected power for around 6-9 years, since its 40 years of formation......similarly maulvis have a lot of opposition power.....but have only had power in a province ot two and that too briefly.......

.......hence pakistani political landscape is locked in the british era......and the voters still respect what they respected back then......

.........now, if the current ppp and or pml govts. can sideline the establishment and do five years of power, the dynamics will probably change.....people will start looking for good governance etc.........

within the establishment, the beuracracy has been sidelined at the high levels.....i.e. politicians can, generally, kick around even the very senior beuracrats.......however, beuracracy is still very powerful at the local and district levels......sho, ac, dc etc......

army, however, is very powerful at the higher levels, and has, uptil now, had its way with the politiicians (and with the judiciary).......

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice ...i have been trying to figure out what the defining characteristic of political leadership happens to be in pakistan.......i.e. what is it that the public admires the most in any pakistan politician.....

......after an analysis of election results through various elections....and through discussions with some politicians, i have come to the following conclusion:...

.....the defining quality of any politician which carries the most admiration amongst the pakistani public is not honesty......it is not integrity....it is not good governance.....it is not economic growth....it is not democratic party credentials.....it is not intellect....it is not religion.......it is not secularism......it is not charity.....nor philanthropy......

then what is it......

it is defiance....

...the pakistani voting public respects defiance to established authority more than anything else.....this is why the ultimate badge of honor for any politician is, "going to jail..".....this is the first thing any politician mentions when they are interviewed, i.e. i have been to jail for this and that cause......

.....a corrupt person like zardari will get votes over an honest person like imran khan, because the former showed, "defiance" by going to jail for 7-10 years.....yusuf gilani is, currently, the most respected politician in pakistan, amongst his own colleagues.......not because of his political competence........but because he was one of two politicians who showed ultimate defiance to musharraf and went to jail for 5 years.......

the other being hashmi, who is currently the second most popular politician in pakistan.......the only one who won in 3 constituencies......

.......this is what explains the history of pakistani poltics.......bhutto is, without a doubt, an extremely popular politician in pakistan......the general public realizes all his faults......they know he was an opportunist and a feudal etc...

but when push came to shove, he showed defiance to the establishment and was hanged.......

ditto on benazir......

why do people respect defiance, going to jail etc......because the poor person considers the govt. (burecracy, army etc.) to be his biggest problem......i discussed this with a councillor........i asked him what do your voters want......do they want education or health......he said no....the first thing they want is protection from the police and the burecracy.......i.e. protection from their own govt.!!

people dislike the govt. (including army) and will vote for anyone who shows defiance to the establishment, regardless of any other sins he/she may have committed......those who die doing this (like zab and bb) become lifetime legends.....

this is also why justice chaudhry is becoming a legend.....if he ends up dying doing this, he will become an equally big legend as zab and bb........

this is also why nawaz is, now, becoming more popular and ppp popularity is going down......ppp is being seen as not showing defiance to musharraf.........

...in foreign affairs, this maps to defiance to usa......anyone who shows defiance to usa, becomes a hero....even if that defiance is misplaced and may lead to economic losses......

The Wrong Mix Speaking of art, the following has to be seen to be believed........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9Damy4cEk

When a Knock at the Door is Not Enough ....whenever we go to a certain part of canada, we are invited by my wife's ex-college roommates to stay with them, in a house where two, out of the three, of them still live.....

they are about as, "independent" as one could assume any woman to be......intimidatingly independent......multiple boyfriends, living alone since 18......jobs.....no money needed from anywhere......educated.....politically active....excellent knowledge of laws.....

i always felt out of place.......the two of us.. innocently, communicating with two women who seen everything.......

.....one day i was discussing this with my wife, and she told me that these two roommates had told her that they used to have the crap beat out of them by their boyfriends......

wife-abuse is one thing.....one is in a family, which is difficult to leave........but being beaten by boyfriends is something that is in another league.....and that in a country where one would think women had all the rights.....

......having heard all such stories.....i still think pakistani men - at least the ones who have had some exposure - are still relatively good husbands.......

if you don't believe me, ask all the married ladies, on chowk, about their husbands......

Can the Judiciary Save the Coalition? ...it is difficult to figure out what the ppp will gain from its current stance on judges......

i am in pakistan at the moment, and one can feel the sand slipping away from under ppp's feet......everyone is supporting nawaz sharif - from the lawyers, to the civil society to the media to everyone else......if elections are held today, a coalition of pml-n/ji/pti/baluch nationalists would win three provices.......while ppp would be left to rural sind........not sure where anp would end up....

.....ppp has tied itself up with the two entities, currently, which are truly disliked in pakistan - musharraf and usa (not to mention with mqm, which is disliked everywhere other than in urban sindh)....

why in the world has it done so, and let nawaz step ahead of the game.......even though, it was the ppp which fought the anti-establishment war against musharraf.....

nawaz sharif and family ran away to saudi arabia - running away, instead of going to jail is the ultimate political suicide in pakistani politics.......other than javed hashmi, none of the pml-n leaders spent any time in jail.....the pml split up into factions; most of it turning into lotas.......it was allied with maulvis who got a severe beating in the elections......

.....on the other hand, ppp did not split too much....its top leaders went to jail - zardari, gilani, naveed qamar......they became the opposition......its leader - benazir - died in a manner which many ppp workers blame on musharraf......it took on the mqm in karachi.....it took on the maulvis everywhere.....

so nawaz sharif spends his time in a palace in saudi arabia, while zardari/gilani spend their time in jail cells.....yet, ppp has now allowed pml-n to steal the show.......a show - freedom of judiciary - which pml-n had nothing to do with......freedom of judiciary (and media) is something pml-n pposed tooth and nail, when in power........

........i think ppp's internal structures are out of touch with reality......there brightest mind and only true urban leader - aitezaz ahsan - is in conflict with them and may be left out in the cold........

......pakistan is evolving from feudal/pir political structures to an urban democratic strucutre.......even a cynic like me has had to accept this after seeing the reusults of the recent elections.....

pml-n has evolved with this structure.....it has no feudal structures left any more....it is a true urban and non-pir party......its complete top leadership is non-feudal.....

ppp is the oppposite.....its manifesto is progressive, its leadership if feudal/pir.....

hence, i think what the ppp is doing now, is simply to secure zardari's NRO.....it is the singular decision of a feudal head, which the party is forced to follow, due to its dynastic and feudalistic history......i am quite sure the rank and file of ppp and most of its leaders must be opposed to it......i am 100% sure yusuf gilani is opposed to it.......and it is obvious aitezaz ahsan is opposed to it.....jehangir badr, raza rabbani (the two other urban leaders; though non-electable) must be opposed to it, also......

anyways, ppp is missing the bus, to save zardari - who has no political background in the party......the three leaders after benazir should have been amin fahim (feudal), yusuf gilani (pir) and aitezaz ahsan (urban)......they are out of the loop.......

....lawyers and media are alreayd chomping at the bit to start their agitation.....they have tasted blood....apdm (ji/pti/baluch) are seeing their predictions coming true and will join it.....nawaz senses that he has stepped ahead of ppp, and will join it.......if civil society also joins it (whict it might, since ppp cannot go after it, like the army could), then ppp has had it........

ppp will then have only one option left.....join up with pml-q and mqm (and thus fully with musharraf), rely on us support and force pml-n into the opposition.......at which point, ppp will be reduced to a rural sindh party.....

all of this to save one person's personal assets.......

PPP Isn’t Convinced! what does the ppp gain from joining with musharraf and pml-q/mqm........nothing.......

it loses a lot.......

so why is it trying to save musharraf......one would have to say the americans want to give him a safe exit......the parliament can be controlled by ppp........but judges cannot.......

so they need the judges to be neutralized......after which musharraf gets a safe exit.......retires to boston.......and life goes on......

the usa ensures hosni and others that if there is ever a revolution agasint them, they can protect them......and to keep that confidence, they need to ensure musharraf gets a safe exit.....

PPP Isn’t Convinced! ...what exactly is musharraf's trump card, at the moment.....

.....it is not the army....the army is not going to listen to him......it knows where its bread is buttered, and which way the public opinion is flowing......at most, it will not allow him to be jailed.......this is a general tradition, amongst generals.......they never jail each other.......nor do they allow any of their colleagues to be jailed.........

the reason being that each general knows this could become a trend......hence they don't want it started......to this day, only one air force general was jailed, after retirement......

.....it cannot be public opinion.........

..and what does ppp gain from him......they hate him......gilani and zardari suffered the most during his rule (along with javed hashmi, naveed qamar etc.).......

.....so why is the ppp leaning to save him....at the cost of losing popularity.......

one would have to say it is the influence of hamidm mian's best bud - W......i cannot think of anyone else.......i think the usa wants a peaceful exit for him.......so that he can retire to boston.......

the usa doesn't need him anymore either........they have already nominated kayani to the worlds' 100 most influential list......i am not sure why, but they have......a picture in time will keep him happy for the next 20 years.....

there fear of mullahs with nukes is gone.......they must have realized that elections in pakistan, actually do not result in mullahs in power.......

so what is their motivation.....well i think it is to ensure every other dictator they are supporting (and there is a long list) that a safe exit is gauranteed, once the tables turn.......(and because bush sticks with personal friends........he kept rummy going, even when hamid mian was fed up of rummy)........

so if musharraf is nailed.......what will the usa say to all the other dictators it supports......

hence the plan, i believe is to allow a safe exit to musharraf, with dignity.......with the aid of the usa......they must have offered zardari a lot of carrot and/or stick to gaurantee that.......

and nawaz sharif is reaping the benefits.......

ppp is screwing this up......they spend time in jail, while nawaz runs off to the palaces of riyadh.......but it is nawaz who reaps the benefits........

and musharraf goes laughing all the way to boston......much like shaukut is laughing all the way to new york......he turned out to be the smartest......got out at the right time.......he can gloat........

PPP Isn’t Convinced! hamidm #10: ".... please explain how when he is sitting in the army house, the supreme court is stacked with his appointees, and the government has less than thirty seats in the senate ?"

hmm.....i think you need to stick with deaborn politics.....those of us sitting in pakistan, perhaps, have a better first hand understanding of what they are seeing in pakistan.....then again, you supported george bush as the next great hope for the usa (and the world)......so maybe dearborn isn't the correct place for you either...

musharraf, at the moment, is scared to address the parliament.......much less kick it out.....i think after the elections, if bilawal bhutto had clapped once, tens of thousands of people would have gathered around musharraf's house and taken him out....

1. "he is sitting in the army house"
....sitting in an army house doesn't immune one from impeachment.....kindly point out anything in the constitution which mentions the army house......

2. ".....the supreme court is stacked with his appointees,"
.......the supreme court also doesn't have anything to do with impeachment......it is a legally defined procedure, accepted by everyone.....

3. " and the government has less than thirty seats in the senate ?"
.....impeaching a president only requires a 2/3rd majority of the combined parliament - not a 2/3rd majority in each house......the current govt. has this 2/3rd majority.......

in addition, your friend nilofer, after enjoying the pleasures of power, has now formed a small forward bloc in the senate, and has joined the opposition marches against musharraf (though that is not needed for impeachment).....

2/3rd in both houses, separately, is only needed for amending the constitution.......not for impeaching the president....

i try my best to not abuse people on this site.....hence i will not call you an idiot.....but, hamidm mian, your lack of knowledge is really testing even my patience......i can tolerate abuse, but i cannot tolerate stupidity......

the only thing musharraf could do against impeachment, is to use 58(2)-b prior to impeachment.......however no one will bother about that......

PPP Isn’t Convinced! ...the person who has played his cards the best is, definitely, nawaz sharif......

he took an issue with which he had, absolutely, nothing to, and made it his own, i.e. the judiciary issue.......nawaz sharif and pml-n did nothing for the judiciary......infact, their rule was one of the worst for the judiciary and the media......

yet, nawaz sensed the public mood, on returning to pakistan, and immediately owned the juidiciary agenda.....

.the elections started right after he landed in pakistan.....he had a rump of his party left......his own political credibility was low as he had opted for saudi arabia and not for jail.......(for those who don't understand pakistani politics, going to jail is the ultimate badge of honor.......and running away the ultimate insult.........this is why gilani is prime minister, and javed hashmi won more seats than any other candidates)....

......on the other hand, ppp has been, traditionally, the anti-establishment party......it took on the establishment....its leader were targeted the most by musharraf......they spent the most time in jail....they are the party that did not break.......(unlike 2/3rd of the pml-n, which opted to join musharraf).....then they lost benazir, and many think the establishment targeted her....

.....yet zardari has fallen behind the public opinion......his party and its workers, have been dying to jump on the judiciary bandwagon......it is also dying to go after musharraf....

.....zardari, however, needs the current judiciary and musharraf to write off his cases........nawaz has already served the time for his........(as has zaradari and that too in jail, however, his cases remain undecided)......

zardari is not playing his cards correctly.....his party has the people's genuine vote.......people know he has spent his time in jail.......i don't think they will let anyone do anything to him, provided he does not fall behind on the judiciary issue, and on the musharraf issue......

nawaz has, in addition, forced his hand even in dubai....one can see easily that zardari has finally given into nawaz.......

pml-n 1 - ppp 0.......

nawaz is now the sharpest sword in pakistan's political armoury.......

i think zardari needs to back down and let gilani, aitezaz, khoro et al. take the lead.......they are the original ppp leaders and will take the party in the correct direction.......

anyways lets see what happens.......as for musharraf, if the govt. wants to impeach him tomorrow, there is nothing he can do.......the army is only powerful if the politicians are split.........

The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics --at an abstract level, the following steps need to be taken place to restructure the complete military set up in pakistan......it should be kept in mind that, while, many, if not most of the institutions - civil, govt. and private - have changed since 1947, the military remains totally unchanged.......

--- non-military affairs
1. privatize all 94 business entities owned by the military, through the army welfare trust, fauji foundation, shaheen foundation and bahria foundation

2. allocate all military lands to the provincial govt., so that the military itself does not own any land in pakistan, and only has land allocated to it by the provincial govt......

3. bring the military budget under the ministry of finace, which should debate it in the assembly

4. appoint a very strong civilian oversight committee, from the national assembly and senate, over all military affairs.....all promotions of maj gens and lt. gens. should be approved by this committee for the next ten years.....after which this process should be discontinued and military chiefs should appoint all generals.....

5. bring military law under the civilian judiciary.....all court martials should have a civilian judge.....all military law should be authored by civilians.......and all overlaps which give military authority in civilian areas, should be abolished......

6. physically, the military should be moved out of all major cities, and reloacated in distant cantonments - as it is done in canada and to a great extent in the usa......

military headquarters should be moved from islamabad/pindi to pannu aqil, shorkot port qasim etc......all corps headquarters etc. should be moved out of karachi, lahore and rawalpindi.....all airbases should be moved out of pindi (chaklala), karachi (masroor, shah-rahe-faisal, malir and korangi).....the complete navy sits in karachi, and it should be moved to port qasim etc.....a separate military city can be set up outside karachi, towards the indian coastline to defend karachi......

-- restructuring of the military itself....

will discuss in another reply......it needs to be revamped from pma to the rank of generals......

The ‘shoey’ Side of Politics ijaz_gul #: ...i am always amazed at how powerful everyone imagines the military to be.....

...as i have always argued on this site, the military is not more powerful than the judiciary, the civil society or even the politicians.....

.....what the military has is unity.....and it is because of this unity that it overpowers every other force that is attempting power in pakistan.......

......the moment any other group shows an equal amount of unity, the military will back down......up til now, the military had been able to divide the judiciary, the politicians, the media and civil society, etc......

......however, now, pakistan has matured....the judiciary did not divide totally........the lawyers stuck with the judiciary....and the military is on the verge of losing this battle....in fact, the military has jumped out of the battle, knowing it will lose, and has left musharraf on his own....people should keep in mind that kayani had also accompanied musharraf when they called the chief justice to the army house.......

.......the military has not been able to divide civil society.......the civil society played its cards smartly...instead of coming out into the streets, it waited till the elections and voted out the military, in a comprehensive and historic manner......

......the media did not divide either......

.....this leaves the most important group, and that is the politicians.....in the end it is a battle between the politicians and military for who will run the country......

up til now, the military has played hell with the politicians.......since the death of jinnah.....it has very easily divided the political forces in pakistan; playing one against the other.....all the major poltical leaders of pakistan, have come out interactions with the army......bhutto, nawaz, altaf, maulvis etc......

.....this is the final frontier.....the military has tried like hell to divide the politicians again....it succeeded in dividing pml into two, and ppp, partially, into two.......

.......however, now pml-n and ppp are united; if for no other reason, because they see a common enemy......i am sure the military and bureacracy is trying like anything to divide them.........

......if pml-n and ppp simply stay united and do nothing else......the military power will crumble.......they simply need to vote in the same direction on matters related to the military......that's it......there will be, absolutely, nothing the military can do........

nothing at all.......the military isn't as powerful as people think......it just seems so because it has very strong traditions, which keep it united........

Benazir’s Legacy i don't think benazir's death is the cause of democracy emerging in pakistan......most people supporting democracy in pakistan, were against her dealing with the usa and generals......

what has brought democracy back is the lawyers and media (students didn't do much)......specially the lawyers......and the defiance of the judiciary shown by resigning...

this can be seen by the fact that nawaz sharif arrived in pakistan the day his party was to file papers....2/3rd of his party had left him and joined pml-q.....him and shahbaz were disqualified.....he put up candidates at the last minute....and still won big......

why?.....because he had one stance: freedom of judiciary (a bit ironic, since he had the supreme court raided ten years ago)........

ppp actually lost seats, in the sense that it only gained 7 seats over the last elections.....despite the fact that all the winds were blowing in its favor......benazir's death only resulted in 7 extra seats.....even though ppp was intact as a party and its leaders had shown the most defiance......

had ppp followed nawaz's strategy, it would have swept completely....