Rote Learning Vis-à-vis Physical Comprehension @ masadi #51

I think "critical method" is the "tool" which helps in the development of "intellectual understanding".

And I don't even want to degrade "mere speculation". Mere speculation also can lead to many new testable hypothesises. Then "scientific research method" can take those new hypothesises as it's input in the process of creation of new factual, valid and empirical knowledge.

regards!

Rote Learning Vis-à-vis Physical Comprehension Gill Sahib,

Nice to read this article. You have highlighted the superiority of practical comprehension over rote memorization. Obviously I have to agree with it. But in addition, I recognize another form of understanding which, I think, is superior to even practical comprehensions. I can share my following article which can explain my view in detail. This is one of my early writings so it can lack maturity of expression:

Practical and Intellectual Understanding

http://khuram.wordpress.com/2006/08/23/practical-and-intell ectual-understanding/

Practical Understanding is very good. But "Intellectual Understanding" is even more good. With "practical understanding", you just "practically implement" already existing theories. But with "intellectual understanding", you invent and make new theories! I have explained this point in my above-referred article.

regards!

Allama Iqbal- Is he still relevant? @ Yasser Latif

Your article is insightful. However you have skipped to mention another type of critique of Iqbalian thought. It is the criticism on Allama Iqbal`s philosophical ideas. I consider Syed Ali Abbas Jalalpuri as an important this type of critique of Iqbalian though. Please check my following articles about Iqbalian thought. I have accepted many points of Syed Ali Abbas Jalalpuri in this connection.

Allama Iqbal`s Anti-Rational Approach & Some important Historical Roots of Iqbalian Ishq

Regards!

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Re: # 432

I like Wasif Ali Wasif and Ghamidi and likes because they are meeting the religious and intellectual problems of our present day. They don`t just stay in the false pride of past glory. They are meeting the challenges of today.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Yes Mirza has used Islam ... and Islamic teachings as a try to get recognition in the eyes of whole Muslim Ummah. But it was the demand of his nature of claims as well. He had the claims of being ``Imam Mehdi for Muslims``,, and ``Issa - who was to appear among Muslim in the capacity of a sub-ordinate to the Prophet of Islam (PBUH). So with these types of claims, he just could not go outside the teachings of Islam. He only has ``interpretated`` many Islamic teachings in a particular way.

And yes I had been thinking of what could be the exact need of forming a new community. My findings are same as pointed out by Zeemax as well; that the exact reason was only his claims. Those who accepted those claims, became a separate party and then eventually organized into the form of a community.

Ahmedies got themselves more isolated when they started making analogy of their own community with the early period of Islam. One of the posts of Sattar also reveals this thing where he pointed out resemblence of Muslim attitude with Ahmedies and the early Kuffars`s attitude with the early Muslims.

In this way, Ahmedies became an isolated community. Perhaps they also do not consider rest of Muslims to be ``true`` Muslims for the reason that rest of Muslims have been failed in rescognizing true Imam Mehdi. I think that this was the main reason of why National Assembely declared then to be ``Non-Muslims``.

Sattar also had pointed out resemblance of this community with the early Christian community. Hazrat Issa also had not crossed the boundaries of the Shariah of Hazrat Musa but still formed a separate community.

Ahmedies do are trapped in false ideas of some ``superiority of intelligence and wisdom`` of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed and his Caliphs. My advice to them is that they should study the works of other prominent Muslim Scholars in order to know that there are many other more intelligent and wise people in Muslims. If they do not like to study Maududi,, then they should listen to let`s say Ghamidi,, or should study Wasif Ali Wasif.

Regards!

Regards!

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Basically he was an emerging Muslim Scholar. His activities were Manazaras or books writings intended to save Islam from the attacks of other religions like Arya Samaj and Christianity. He got some popularity and then started claiming spiritual experiences. He started projecting his predictions and some people became inspired. Ahmedies believe that some major enemies of Islam were died un-natural deaths only because of Mirza`s predictions. Then Mirza came with various major claims not at once but successively. At first step he realized that Hazrat Issa died a normal death,,, at other stage,,, he claimed to be that ``Issa`` who was to appear among Muslims,,, I don`t know whether he claimed to be Imam Mehdi before or after it. Then he got in problem with the issue of Khatm-e-Nabuwat. Perhaps at first he did some mistake about the issue of ``Khatam-e-Nabuwat`` ... but then he clarified the mistake in a separate booklet .. i think ``aik ghalti ka azala``..

I don`t know whether he was right or wrong in his claims ... but he was intelligent enough that he made a complete case of his claims in his many books ... I think he wrote perhaps more than 50 books. For example, in order to show that Hazrat Issa really died,,, he collected many proofs out of Quran, Hadith, writings of many Muslim Scholars as well as historical evidences.

Similarly, he also has made a detailed case about the issue of Khatam-e-Nabuwat as well as the issue of jihad. I already stated that I have read his book ``Islami Usool Ki Philosophy``. In fact this book was read allowed in an all India inter-religion manazara. And this book won that manazara even though some other promionent Muslim scholars also participated in that manazara. Ahmedy beliefs are more rational in nature. In fact Ahmedy beliefs are like a blend of fundamentalism with the approach of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan. Mirza takes symbolic meanings of many Quranic terms. But unlike Sir Syed,, he tends to give proof of those symbolic meanings out of same Quran.

Regards!

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Re: # 424

correction: shame (first lines) = shape

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth # 422 and 423 .. Zeemax & Zeena

``My questions is simply that, what is Mirza`s essential teaching different from Islam other than claiming to be the second coming of Christ and expunging Jihad for his followers?``

I suspect the answer is ``Nil``.

So why did he then invent this religion? To teach what? Or was it just to produce loyal servants of the British empire who rather than resisting, would actually work in advancing its colonial interests around the world?

That`s the next obvious question.


Ahmediyat has assumed the shame of an organized community. Mirza`s descendents are at advantageous position because they have become elite members of this community. They are running a dictatorship in the name of Caliphate, in the community.

This community considers Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be true Imam Mehdi and the promissed Masih. They believe that Mirza has resolved all the outstanding internal disputes of Muslim Nation. For example, in his writings,,, Mirza has discussed internal differences of Shiaism and Ahl-e-Sunnat, of Ahl-e-Hadith and Ahl-e-Quran etc. etc. After necessary discussions, he has drawn his conclusions. For example his decision goes in favor of Ahl-e-Sunnat on the issue of status of first three Caliphs of Islam. He also considers Hazrat Ali to be legitimate fourth Caliph. etc. etc.

Essentially these are just points of views. But since his community considers him true Imam Mehdi, so status of his points of views becomes authority in their eyes. In addition, this community usually abstains from various cultural and religious customs and traditions. For example, they do not offer Qul and Chehlum etc. They don`t go to shrines of walis as well.

Anyways, Mirza could serve Islam better if he did not come up with his claims. He would have got a respectable position in the eyes of whole Muslim Ummah, instead of becoming authority for a small and insignificant size community.

Secondly his community had no advantage for British Crown. Such a small size community could do nothing for the cause of British crown. Only few moderate minded people could not change the over-all anti British sentiments. Beliefs of this community are totally opposite to Christian beliefs. This community believes Mirza to be ``Hazrat Issa``. Now try to think how Cristians and therefore British Crown could digest this belief...??? Because in this way, Mirza becomes equal in status to their own prophet. So emergence of this community had its own dynamics,, which were independent of any planning of the British government.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Re: # 415

There are every kind of websites. There are websites where you could find list of ex-Muslims telling why they left Islam and so have come to light. etc. etc.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth # 406 Urstruely

Well ... if British Crown was afraid of concept of Imam Mehdi because of experience in Sudan,,, then logically Britain should have opposed or resisted any emergence of Imam Mehdi in Sub-Continent. A proven ``violent`` type movement cannot be anticipated to be ``peaceful`` and ``loyal`` just because of the type of personality who launched the movement.

And yes,,, Mirza was getting good name in the circle of Indian Muslim ulemas before his claims of being Imam Mehdi and like things. He not only debated with Christians, but he debated with Hindus as well. It was the time when Arya Smaj movement was at its peak in India. Mirza`s one of the first books was intended against Arya smaj. And the same book had made him popular among the circle of ulema.



# 384 Zeemax

With reference to the copy of page of letter which Mirza wrote to Queen Victoria, you presented.

As far I remember, Mirza actually had invited Queen Victoria to embrase Islam as well as join his Jamaat Ahmedia. You have presented only one page of that letter. Use of such faithful words could be a part of diplomacy as well. When a common person writes letter to the ruler of country,,, obviously he has to show his aajzi and inkisaari. And then gradually have to come to real point.

@ Sattar

Please try to confirm my point. Try to arrange this letter and read in full. Please tell did Mirza really invite Queen Victoria to embrase Islam and join Ahmediyat or not ... with proof.

Regards!

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Re: # 393

Yes of course Punjabis might have ``accepted`` British as a lesser of two evils. But the point is that they ``accepted``.

Your rest of analysis relates to later periods. I agree to it however.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Re: # 404


Yes because Mutazillah ideology was philosophical type and was bit difficult for general public to comprehend and adopt. Actually Sir Syed had written some letters which are the proofs that he was trying to collect necessary information about the basic points of Mutazzillah faith. In one of the letters, he writes that only Mutazillah`s points were worthy of merit for his task.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Re: # 387 Zeemax

I consider Syed Ahmed Khan no better than Mirza Ghulam Qadiani.

Your point re context of time is taken. How would you evaluate Iqbal in the context of his time?


Sir Syed was a part of Nobel class of Indian Muslims. He was concerned that Muslim Nobel class would not be able to compete with more educated Hindus in getting of superior government jobs under the British rule. The only solution was to launch a dedicated education spreading movement among Indian Muslims. But Indian Muslims despised western education because of religious beliefs. So first of all Sir Syed had to make-up Muslim mind for the adoptation of western education. That was the time of complete darkness of illeteracy and ignorance. Muslims were unaware of basic teachings of Islam as well and had been trapped into ignorant type superstitious beliefs like ancient prophets were many thousand feet tall etc. etc. Sir Syed had realized the poor and backward state of Muslim beliefs. Western thought of that time was dominated by Rationalism. Sir Syed realized the need of interpreting Islamic beliefs on rational footings. In the glorious period of early Muslim rule (i.e. early period of Abbasid Caliphate), a well known early Muslim sect ``Al-Mutazillah`` already had attempted to perform the task of interpreting Islamic beliefs on rational footings. The importance of that early sect can be realized by the fact that the first ever Rational Muslim Philosopher i.e. Yaqoob Alkindi belonged to Mutazillah faith. Later giant Muslim Philosophers like Al-Farabi and Ibn-e-Sina just had extended the views of Alkindi into further depths. That sect however could not survive for long and their works were also destroyed by the later dominent sects.

Sir Syed had got inspirations from that early sect. Some fragments of scattered work of that early sect could be made available. So Sir Syed undertook the heavy task of interpreting Islamic beliefs on strong rational footings in this way. Another early Shia sect ``Batania`` also influenced the thought of Sir Syed . Perhaps Sir Syed learned allegorical type interpretations of Islamic beliefs from ``Batania`` sect. Basic idea of Sir Syed was that Quran is the Word of God and functioning of Physical world is the Act of God. According to him, there could be no contradiction between Word of God and Act of God. In this way, Sir Syed gave `allegorical` meanings to all those things of Islamic belief system which could not be seen in the Physical world. For example, he allegorically interpreted the existence of angels, paradize and hell. On similar lines, he also denied the physical meanings of miracles of Prophets as well as denied the physical meanings of Hazrat Issa (RA) being alive in heavens. He took allegorical meanings of all these things. In this way, he tried to rationalize Islamic belief system. He could not complete this task. Secondly his work did not affect the orthodox momentum of Islamic beliefs.

About Allama Iqbal:

Allama Iqbal was concerned with the over-all backwardness of Muslim Nation as compared with Western Nations. Allama Iqbal`s time context was different from Mirza Qadiani and Sir Syed. Some Muslim Scholars like Syed Ameer Ali and Maulana Shibli Naumani etc. already had adopted some psychological ``escape`` strategies. Instead of facing the challenges of real world, they started finding charms in the false pride of past glory of Muslims. Allama Iqbal used same strategy with a positive mission i.e. with the view to give some confidence to Muslim Nation. Through his beutiful poetry, Allama Iqbal projected the past glory of Muslims and tried to invoke new spirit (Zinda Tamanna) in a dead nation. Allama Iqbal made the nation more ``emotional`` rather than making ``rational``.

Allama Iqbal also was deeply influenced by the popular Western Philosophies of his time like he was inspired by such Philosophers as Rausseau, Bergson, Fitche, Loyed Magon, Prof. Alexander and Nietzsche etc. etc. Allama Iqbal`s philosophical views are dominated by these philosophies. His ``Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam`` is an attempt to show that either above type of philosophies were already a part of Islamic ideology or that Islamic beliefs could be modernized on these lines.

Regards!

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Re: # 388

We are not any mature nation because we are just unable to see things in clear black and white.

Mirzai`s basic beliefs clearly go against basic beliefs of Gora Sahib. Gora sahib has the belief that Jesus died on cross, then became alive on third day and then went to heavens. In those days missioneries used to argue that since Jesus was alive in heavens and Prophet of Islam was burried in grave ... so Jesus was superior to Prophet of Islam. In such crucial time, it was Mirza alone who fought this argument of missioneries. He came up with a different reply that Jesus also died and is burried in a grave. Mirza had various ``manazras`` with Christien Bishops as well ... and he effectively broke the basic argument of Christian missioneries.

Mirza did have a solid role in his time. He had somewhat contribution of saving Islam from the hands of christian missioneries. Yes he was loyal to British government. But many other Punjabi ulemas were also loyal to British government.

Regards!

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Re: # 389

Yes I used wrong word ``all``. Obviously my statement could not come up to ``falsification principle``. As a matter of fact, generally and on the whole, British government proved to be a blessing for Punjabi Muslims. Punjabi Muslims had no freedom of religious practices under the rule of Sikhs. Many mosques had been converted to stables in that period. British government was a blessing for Punjabi Muslims in religious sense also because British government gave full religious freedom to people. In fact, with the emergence of printing and publishing facilities in those times,,, ulemas of this region had found great oppertunity of spreading their religious views among people. These facilities were missing in Sikh Raj.

In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth Zeemax

We are prone to commit a common mistake while studying or evaluating history. We mistakenly tend to evaluate historical events in the light of our present day political and cultural environment.

Have you read Sir Syed Ahmed Khan`s ``Risala Asbab-e-Baghawat-e-Hind...???

I have read it. If you will read it, you will get very bad impression of Sir Syed because you will find him a perfect slave of British government who considers British people and western culture as superior to local people and culture. You know k Sir Syed ne British Sarkar ki apni jaan per khail ker Khidmet ki thi...??? He personally had saved lives of many British people during 1857 revolt by putting his own life in dangers.

Do you know that about all the Muslim Ulema from Punjab Province were generally very happy with the British government...???

If you do not know, then I tell you its reason. Before British Raj, Punjab province was under the control of Sikh rulers. Punjabi Muslims were suffering in the hands of Sikh rulers. Punjab was overtaken by Britishers in 1849. All the Punjabi Muslims had welcomed British Raj in the province. Because they had got freedom from the cruelties of Sikhs.

Hum log aaj 2007 main British k khilaf barrkein mar saktein hain. Do you know k 1857 k baad even founders of Deoband Madrasah had stopped talking about Jihad...??? Even though they had participated in 1857 war...!!! Deoband k baani ulema barre shageir main iss liye reh rahe thay kiyunke they had availed the ``aam maafi`` of British government.

Do you know k 1906 main Muslim League ki establishment ka purpose kia tha...??? Do you not know k purpose tha k Muslims ko British government ka faithful show kia jaye aur political benefits liye jayein.

Zeemax,, do you know k not only Muslims of Sub-Continent but actually almost all the Asian Nations had fallen so badly in the Colonial era that they had accepted White Man as something superior being to Asian People...???

Asian people could manage to come out of the trance of such deep inferiority complex first time in 1906 when Japanese Army defeated Russian Army. It was for the first time when Asian people got somewhat confidence. Asian people had got REAL confidence in second world war when at a stage Japan was defeating the alliance armies and Japan had liberated many Asian countries from British rule.

Even before this time,,, people of India could not think of trying to get freedom from British. Before second world war, Indian people (including Hindus and Muslims) were satisfied with living under British supervision and with somewhat limited autonomy. Before second world war, the issue was just how much seats for Hindus and how much for Muslims in the legislative assembelies.

But it was during second world war when Indian people got as much confidence to launch such movements as ``Quit India`` ... and Muslims came up with Pakistan Resolution.

Anyways, try to be able to see things in their original context. Pay thanks to the courage of Japanese people who gave you necessary confidence and you came out of a very deep rooted inferiority complex.

Mirza was a person of that time. Evaluate him in the context of that time.

If you evaluate Muhammad Ali Jinnah in the context of 1916, you will consider him right in his struggles for Hindu Muslim Unity.

If you evaluate him in the context of 1940, you will consider him right in his struggle for Hindu Muslim separation.

Learn to evaluate history in its original context. If you were the part of post 1857 context,,, you would be more rational if you accepted the superiority of British people. Sir Syed was a rationalist. Do you know...???

Regards!