The Emerging Threat You misunderstand me.. By ethnicity I refer to me being Pakistani... which is a basis to my interest although I live abroad. I dont support the MQM and have always condemned them as wholeheartedly as anyone else for their regimen of organised terror.

I do not reject the rule of law by any means... I am only trying to explain to you what the rule of law actually is...

The Emerging Threat Dear Mr. tahmed32. To begin with I have no need to "dodge" as you put it. I can assure you that every assessment I maintain or analysis I venture can be tested to whatever extent of rigour that you like. I have spent quite a few years as a lawyer and feel it necessary to make a credible case based on reality in my analysis rather than merely venturing opinions and wishful thinking which seems to be the mod around here. However I merely voice my thoughts and thankfully do not have the responsibility of educating Chowk members.

Secondly other than my ethnicity and some desire for the welfare of the nation I have no vested interest in Pakistan whatsoever. I can actually quite happily say that I have not benefited from a single Pakistani rupee in my lifetime rather have been a source of remittance to Pakistan only to have my family's investments stolen by Navaz during the Forex Crisis in the late nineties.

I have absolutely no affiliation with or any interest in any government or interest group past or present. Similarly when I venture any thoughts about Pakistani issues I do so from a global economic, political and legal perspective considering all pertinent issues which largely seem to escape people confounded with local realpolitik and their own petty agendas.

In real terms there are two kinds of people in the World; people who advertise and people who believe advertising, the latter being the most common Pakistani demographic

To quote you "I got this "wisdom" from the collective human experience of the past several millenia which has been a steady march away from "rule of the jungle" and towards a society run by laws". This may sound lovely but in fact means absolutely nothing. It is simply you repeating advertising..along the lines of something like "Drink Coca-Cola".

There is no state in the world past, present or indeed future which does not derive order through coercion. The "rule of law" is only a code of coercion which can "only and exclusively" be implemented when an absolute ruling elite and all other subservient classes are established. This is true of every capitalist or socialist democracy, monarchy and every other conceivable form of government. This may sound unpleasant but this is reality.

The Emerging Threat I mean #29 in #31

The Emerging Threat I mean #29 in #31

The Emerging Threat #30

The human rights abuses of BB and Navaz I am not going to bother disputing. That is documented fact and you can research that on your own time. Arguing the other issues is meaningless because it would be a pointless dispute owing to your idealism.

I do wish to deal with one point you raise though which kept me amused for a good 5 minutes. Its amazing how naive people actually are.

To quote you "Because it is only in a country ruled by laws and not by "brute force" that real progress takes place".

Where did you get this piece of wisdom from I wonder ?
Can you even attempt to prove this?
Can you give me one real example of this phenomenon?

The Emerging Threat #23

I think the only problem I have with Musharraf is for him not having hung Navaz in 1999. Other than that he's probably about as good as it gets in terms of Pakistani leadership.

This is simply because rule by brute force is the only way Pakistanis (or indeed Muslims) can be governed. Musharraf thus ruled in exactly the same way as any other Pakistani government in this respect however unlike the civilian criminals before him, he has been far more progressive and generally beneficial to Pakistan and its economy and the right-minded elements of Pakistani society in spite of the calibre of the rest of its population.

In case you don't remember, Benazir from 1988 to 1990 and 1993 to 1996 ruled through a regimen of torture and extra judicial killings mainly of political opposition and MQM in Sindh, In her second term her security forces (mainly the IB) conducted random house-to-house searches in Sindh and were responsible for about 2000 arbitrary arrests, detentions, torture, custodial deaths, and extrajudicial executions.

.Navaz Sharif had his share of extra-judicial killings, of about 1400 through 1990 to 1993 and 1997 to 1999. In his case just like BB, the killings were of political opponents.

You can corroborate this with Human Rights Watch, World Report 1994 and 1996 and the Amnesty International, Annual Report 2000

All this shows is that extra-judicial activities against the public are a necessary feature of Pakistani government, in exactly the same way as this is the case in virtually all Muslim countries.

The "disappeared" as you put them are for the most part separatists, terrorists and persons in the employ of other governments and in all probability deserve to disappear, unlike the victims of civilian criminals who in fact kill their political opponents. Musharraf's government in fact is the only government in Pakistan's history who have made some effort (for American insistence) to account for people arrested or killed by government action.

The Emerging Threat :) this is almost funny somehow.. anyways all my regards to the Pakistani public.. "Enjoy your Wahabism"

Please De-stabilize the System This is all very well and good but why again is democracy nessessary ??

Logotherapy: Humanism In Psychiatry
When I say that “Life in fact does not have meaning in all circumstances and that the human condition necessitates that the meaning and essence of life comes from above and collectively.”.. I mean to say that 'individual life' does not have meaning owing to the condition of humanity, which compels social,political, personal and economic meaning to be a collective product.

Frankl's own fears of his works being categorised as quasi-religious, do not exclude the fact that logotherapy indeed as a system relies on taking the unreconcilable and unjustifiable position of the existence of spirit, beyond of the actual, physical elements of humanity. Carrying on from this essentially false religious presumption, logotherapy manifests its capitalist nature and assumes and indeed emphasizes upon the existence of the individual.. (in a fashion very much akin to the rubbish coming out of the Kabbalah Centre).

Logotherapy involves use of Socratic method to result in manipulating and modifying attitudes and distracting "individuals" from their anxieties. This has all the hallmarks of social engineering, tailor made for each of the malcontent/disaffected whilst maintaining the societal status-quo as as sacrosanct. Since the initial presumptions are false and the end is to compel the subject to an acceptable "normality" this is in effect that acquiescence through misinformation, lies and perversion of psychotherapy which I am referring to. This is slave psychotherapy.

I would like to point out that your assertion that: (the) “collection of intelligences” which shall transcend “molecular determinism”, still manifests or will manifest in individual or individually – that is from existentialist view point".. is a mere statement of opinion. I reject the possibility that individuals can transcend determinism successfully because this is simply not analogous to any natural model. As I suggested in my previous post, religion and capitalism rely on the human propensity to the misapprehension that they are not subject to deterministic principles. This might be an evolutionary mechanism on the course to consciousness, but humans more imagine that they are conscious, than they actually are.

Although these kind of arguments can be raised ad infinitum, briefly I can quite easily say.. there is no human spirit and telling people there is may make them a little bit happier but in essence remains a dangerous lie.

I am really beginning to wonder why logotherapy is being pushed on Chowk and whose doing the pushing?

Dancing on Broken Glass :) My first flag .. for telling the truth. I'm touched.

Dancing on Broken Glass Masadi, Chowk's favourite career lota...your agenda is transparent... you are for lack of a better description an old prostitute, hoping perhaps to make as much pro-establishment noise as possible in the hope that somebody hears you, with an end to some extremely petty capitalisation. Pakistan, sadly is rife with rabble of the likes of you. I sincerely recommend that you gracefully commit suicide, and do us all a favour.

I wonder who pays you... or perhaps who you hope will pay you..

Zardari, your new master by the way has been convicted in open court, along with that filthy wife of his (now thankfully burning in hell) both in Switzerland and Britain for money laundering, corruption and a series of graft charges which resulted in the freezing of assets to the tune of $18 million found to be directly derived from various Pakistani ministries and banks.

Sharif amidst a multitude of charges was convicted by Pakistani courts, upon enquiry conducted internationally by law enforcement and financial authorities in Europe, Russia and the middle-east for defaulting on bank loans, one of $14 million to the Ittefaq and the other for $23 million to Hudaibya Paper, acquiring cost and tax free helicopters and illegally funding huge investments in the UK through two offshore companies in the British Virgin Islands.
His brother has 5 murder charge pending against him, which are suspended (in the name of democracy) and the victims' families as of yet await justice.
All this is well documented across the world. The case law and reports are freely available, which I recommend you should take time out to read from your busy career of brown-nosing, before spewing these delusional assertions that you manage to come up with every day.
In brief it seems the whole world (except the wise Mr. masadi and his democratic chums) know that Zardari and the Sharifs are proven criminals.

Logotherapy: Humanism In Psychiatry The word logotherapy derives from Greek "logos" and this unto itself is very indicative of the nature of what we're talking about here. Logotherapy somewhat has the stench of Kierkegaard about it; religion dressed up as sanity.The will to meaning as far as I can see is essentially some sort of subversive introversion, which relies extensively on obfuscation of the issue of determinism and otherwise hijacks the concept of will, to create or possibly justify a "slave psychotherapy". Human beings are not free and remain thinking machines which are "physically and structurally" evolved both to somewhat escape physical/molecular determinism and to a much larger extent imagine that they have successfully done so. No individual human can and ever will transcend their subservience to physical determinism although following on from natural models, from cells upwards to the very structure of the human brain, it is definite that such transcendence can and only be derivative from a collection of intelligences; or perhaps more accurately a collective of intelligence. True meaning in life and true human achievement and growth can only ever be acquired collectively. It is this propensity of humans to imagine that they can successfully transcend molecular determinism, which has been time and again exploited (very very ironically) by collectives of beneficiaries who advocate and normalise the most dangerous lie of individualism as does Mr. Frankl, which I must say, in his case (at the risk of seeing paranoid) is perhaps simply to the end of achieving a psychological paradigm for capitalism. The emptiness (purportedly owing to the lack of will to meaning) is in fact the suffering due when a human becomes an individual and all the relevant neuroses are actually part of the externalities and shadow costs of capitalism. Life in fact does not have meaning in all circumstances. The human condition necessitates as it always has done that the meaning and essence of life comes from above and collectively. Logotherapy is a means by which the victims of society can be conditioned to acquiescence to their situation through a regimen of misinformation, lies and perversion of psychotherapy.

Dancing on Broken Glass This is something I will continue to bring up.. Zardari and the Sharifs are known and convicted criminals and yet the Pakistani public (seemingly) condone their existence and their pursuit of political office. This article seems to by default acquiesce to the possibility of the country being governed by these filthy, disgusting reprobates and this is by any standard of sensibility, utterly unacceptable. Have the Pakistani public indeed become so stupid and illiterate or perhaps is it the case that some faction of the demographic, which are capable of writing these works of propaganda to Chowk have a vested interest in the utter corruption that Pakistani civilian governments inevitably and invariably manifest.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice #269.. I think "put forth" is the only bit of truth in your post :)

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice masadi... you are by far the silliest creature on the face of the planet... I seriously think you should stop smoking whatever it is that keeps you in this perpetual state of self satisfied delusion.

Fatima Bhutto Fighting for Justice Its amazing .. Pakistanis are probably the only people in the world who actually campaign against their own well-being.

Zardaris a criminal..in the same way the sun rises in the east... there's no doubts and no arguments, thus anyone who supports his re-election is a criminal by default without much ambiguity at all.