Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 670
Ghualm Qadiani got only a sampler while he was living, meeting the angel of death in a place where everyone flushes their filth was certainly the honor he deserved, and if you envy that go hang yourself in the same place, there are plenty of people who would be willing to flush you away just like they flush the filth.
You are one downright qadiani compared to many others who chose to beautify their scripture created by Ghulam Qadiani.
The only way he knows it the baitul khala and thats where he is going too following his leader.

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 658
To each is their own although you state that "nor was I presenting myself as a believing/practicing Muslim".

And although I do not mean to appear perfect one either, I would encourage you to, specially since how you recognize yourself to be, come back brother as avoiding the items that you know to be the hurdle would place you in a better position, not just because you were born in a Muslim household but you yourself recognize to be a follower of the faith, after all we can strive to work on our imperfections.
All I would call this to be a friendly reminder.

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 647
I apologize for having misunderstood the application of term "parochial" as having been originated in your comment, absolutely my oversight.

Your assertion in stating that foundation for research is the ability to imagine is correct according to my understanding as well.

"Prophet, as intelligent as he was, could not have been blinded to other belief systems around him." you are accurate in stating so as the Prophet(PBUH) is recognized to be a fountaion of wisdom by all muslims.

The very basic & elementary articles of faith that makes me the follower of Islam require me to proclaim my belief in oneness(unity of God) also referred to as Almighty Allah as well as in Muhammad PBUH as the Final Messenger & Prophet of Allah SWT.

This belief is fortified by witnessing many things around me which the human has thus far not been able to create or replicate.

I quote the translation of very first verses of the revelation of Quran.

such as stated in translation of verses as following from Quran which happens to be the very first revelation to the Prophet PBUH:

96:1 READ in the name of thy Sustainer, who has
96:2 created man out of a germ-cell(clot)
96:3 Read, for thy Sustainer is the Most Bountiful One
96:4 who has taught [man] the use of the pen
96:5 taught man what he did not know
96:6 Nay, verily, man becomes grossly overweening
96:7 whenever he believes himself to be self-sufficient
96:8 for, behold, unto thy Sustainer all must return.
96:9 HAST THOU ever considered him who tries to prevent
96:10 a servant [of God] from praying?
96:11 Hast thou considered whether he is on the right way,
96:12 or is concerned with God-consciousness?
96:13 Hast thou considered whether he may [not] be giving the lie to the truth and turning his back [upon it]?
96:14 Does he, then, not know that God sees [all]?
96:15 Nay, if he desist not, We shall most surely drag him down upon his forehead
96:16 the lying, rebellious forehead
96:17 and then let him summon [to his aid] the counsels of his own [spurious] wisdom,
96:18 [the while] We shall summon the forces of heavenly chastisement
96:19 Nay, pay thou no heed to him, but prostrate thyself [before God] and draw close [unto Him]

In short imagining about the existence and operations of all the components the universe is comprised of and runs flawlessly, it is impossible to attribute it to anyone else other than an Almighty Divine Authority that maintains the control of entire universe and it's systems. A failure of the given systems would conclude it all as the various sciences testify. "Imagine" the long list of subjects that are being researched by individuals and groups day and night all over the world it does take someone far more superior to have created such detailed systems and to keep them in operation for Allah only knows for how long while humans have their "estimates" only.

My knowledge of Gita or Vedavyasa is nil which keeps me from making an honest comment about these entities other than taking your word for it as you state "some of the material in Gita can be traced to 1100 BC."

Day in and day out I observe people of multiple faiths as well as athiests when in trouble or when seeking mercy, looking towards the sky and addressing the Almighty with different names, be it God, Almighty, Bhagwan or Allah, they all look upwards when addressing the Almighty and it is not "imaginary" by any proportion as witnessed by myself.

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 635
What about him? I dont believe he followed the Qadiani cult, or, did he?

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 636
Cheema sahib
You sound pretty edgy on the subject of alcohol; no matter what, one is prone to get drunk to some level by consuming an intoxicant, while the hadith I presented to you says a lot more than you appeared to have understood.
Actually even after consumption to the level of being found "drunk" it implies that one is not totally rejected from Islam, in no manner that endorses consumption of intoxicants as an acceptable item, and in no manner I am attempting to judge you since as a sinful human it is not my position.
However when one claims to be a follower of Islam and admits to certain act contrary to the faith, I find it my duty to at the least pass along the politest admonition for the subject's very own sake. May Allah SWT bless you with the strength to overcome this weakness, ameen.

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 634
Here is some help for you to know, how and where is his name mentioned (directly) in the earlier books?
Hope that you will pay attention and will benefit from the information.
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhazm0UdlTc
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKsSk0kqc6U
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_b0I5ZWZFs
Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_qhEEmnytw
Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzCLQ6sGHfo
Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgOGBWrORSY
Part 7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvpSRq8sAS4
Part 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z716XhcyNXM
Part 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oBJW6nnl-o
Part 10:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mjXiotL47I
Part 11:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Ja-dlniiI

And they say: "None shall enter paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful." Sura 2 Verse 111

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 618
Peace

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQjrz1URrKU

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 629
Mirza Ghulam of Qadian is not mentioned in Quran-e-majeed as having anything to do with Islam a single time, do you have a verse to substantiate that he is?

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 627
I have never been to a nudist camp (don't want to either)....I have never smoked pot.....alcohol occasionally is my limit.....


Sahih Bukhari
Volume 8, Book 81, Number 772:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

A drunk was brought to the Prophet and he ordered him to be beaten (lashed). Some of us beat him with our hands, and some with their shoes, and some with their garments (twisted in the form of a lash). When that drunk had left, a man said, "What is wrong with him? May Allah disgrace him!" Allah's Apostle said, "Do not help Satan against your (Muslim) brother."

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 620
It must be 12 O'clock by your watch when you wrote!

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 619

Anil sahib
The former is very much true....only as far as the capacity to imagine is concerned; those with wider imaginations can (and do) think well beyond the confines of a silly and parochial concept such as you mention....]

"With imagination comes reasoning, probity, analysis, questioning and challengeing. Answers we get for this question, also points to the limit of the human mind.

Factors described above are rather related to what could be termed as "beyond imagination" and is better known as "Research" while "Imagination" is only limited to imaginary matters, the concept of God as such and specially taking into account the faith of Islam is not all that imaginary.

Logic happens to be troubling when applied in analyzing the believers of Islam whereas Philosophical approach appears to be of assistance in understanding the concept of God or divinity and this makes it necessary for a believer of Islam to have a firm believe in the unseen authority also referred to as "Ghayb" in Arabic terminology.

Your application of the term Parochial which primarily relates to Christian institution happens to be comparable and not offensive enough to be considered silly.

With regards to Einstein and Newton there behavior as you mention falls within the scope of Research after having conceived an imagination, likewise when the believer of Islamic faith has concluded the imagination and entered the real world upon embracing Islam as his/her faith becomes involved in a life long Research by submission to in quest of seeking the pleasure of Creator of universe and all it's systems.

Such Research consists of acts beyond ritual worship such as to care for a family, play appropriate roles of being a spouse,father, mother, son, daughter, neighbor and much more. This is what the struggle/"Jihad" of life is all about where one should feel and act with a level of social responsibility.

As you refer to another comment about "Krishna spoke to Arjuna about Dharma. Many regards those words in Gita to be written by "Vedavyasa" the writer of Mahabharat. There is nothing "Godly" or "Prohetic" about those words." taking you for your words that those words are not Godly or Prophetic, this must however be understood that it is not so in the Islamic faith and the only words Muslims have are the words of God revealed to and conveyed through the Final-Prophet and Messenger PBUH and contained in Quran-e-Majeed which specifies

2:256: Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

If one takes into account the modern science and technology where satellites are used for looking at any territory of the world from distant places, one being a believer and in proper senses cannot doubt the capabilities of the divine authority to be able to know all that goes on in this little corner of the vast universe. While it is God/Allah who declared HIS creation the Human entity as, "Ashraf-ul-Maklooqat" Most honorable of all other creations.

Thus the imagination is limited and dependent upon the principal of the given mind and his/her ability to be able to imagine and forward his/her imagination into a research while without being enslaved billions have concluded that yes "God is" and "will be" while all else is mortal.

Regards

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 600
Tahir sahib
Sorry to have missed out, just like you mentioned it did happen, and with upsurge of interacts on this topic I do miss out a few every now & then.
These naies with their blunt ustaras cant substantiate beyond rhetoric, the more I read all there rhetoric the more my belief becomes fortified in what translates or interprets to:
"you come towards me one step and I will bring myself closer to you"
"those who opt to be munafiqs shall be donned with thicker drapes over their sight/vision"
also described in common slang "to be losing vision due to thickening drapes of porcine fat over their eyes".
May Allah bless those who seek accurate vision and remove these earlier Dajjals from the path of innocent ones who seek the truth and are misguided by these Dajjals.
In no manner their actions are less than Dajjal except that they don't have the strength of final anti-christ who will kill and bring alive to prove to weak ones that he is the one who deserves to be worshipped.
However, the least of the act of struggle is to continue to face-off these munafiqs in all manners that it can be done.
Jazakallah Khair.

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 542
Tahir sahib these Q's without kamar also use the word khatim in another sense, i.e. khatim=diamond/nageena and they say we consider Prophet Mohammed PBUH to be a nageena among all prophets, and they try to run away from finalization of prophethood.

They play with words and terminology, they can run but they can't hide.

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 570
Khalifa i.e. hajam..i.e. naee =barber the head of nizam-e-hajamat

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Re: # 583
The chutney walay Ahmed has nothing to do with Ahmediya jamat or qadianis

Twenty Three Students Expelled From Punjab Medical College, Faisalabad Perhaps he tried that too, who knows if he was looking for Guru Ghantaal for his copyright permission and failed to find him.