The Wrong Mix

The Wrong Mix

The Wrong Mix

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 126
HP sahib, First of all I would like to thank you for your eloquent comments since you maintain a yourself in a manner that even if someone differs from your opinion he/she does not feel bad, I wish we can have a larger number of such people around who can discuss issues and matters without resorting to the lingual deficiencies often noticed here.

“Assuming Musharraf goes, then what next? Will NS and others continue to uphold the law?”

Nothing is guaranteed. In politics when you have stronger institutions, chances of leaders breaking laws are tremendously reduced. A strong Court system, active lawyers, and energized political workers can keep any wayward politician straight and in check.

A strong system and further progress of a disciplined society who isn't always looking for "chacha" "mama" or use of other methods prevailing conventionally shall lead to lead very much needed to a strong future for Pakistan.

Unless we the Pakistani people give up the, might is right practices and learn to discuss with each other with due regard even if there is a difference of opinion with each other, as long as we cannot convey ourselves with regard and fail to follow a system (once it is there) no matter what Pakistan will not gain it's right place.

With regards to the Executive, Judiciary and Legislature we all know how sincere and loyal most of them have been in carrying out their responsibilities thus far, at this point there are several who appear to be working hard to put it all together once again and lets see if the hard work of those performing with sincerity and loyalty pays off, or we as a nation are going to prove to be our biggest enemy once again.
Wasalam
Best regards.

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 115
Toppling of Judiciary by the Executive branch is exemplary, it was then and it is now.
It was by Executive's choice then and that does not make them any more credible regardless of the reason.
To hate a legislation on the books does not permit one to topple the judiciary under any circumstances, or does it?
Zeemax this is where the ignorance prevails where the entire nation is falling victim to ignorance by supporting a character who himself resorted to unlawful means implying that he/she could take it upon themselves to remove a sitting judge.
Two wrongs dont make a right and when the nation recognizes a "wrong doer" they need to be sent to the corner.
The choice of ignorant individuals to lead a nation to ignorance. Now its upto those who make such choices of leadership which camp they place themselves under.

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 112
Peons can hate as much as they want, I dont carry the word hatred in my vocabulary.
In as much as your use of the word "muttarwa" is considered you idiots don't understand that Punjabis alone do not represent Pakistan. I know your level of illiteracy and ignorance which compels your kind to conclude all your conversations inflicting indignities on non-Punjabis however be assured that this attitude will not be taken quietly and shall be encountered in kind with full force.
It would be very kind of you to refrain from indulging in matters that are beyond your intellect, it is people like you that we have a Bangladesh today but your dream of creating a Punjabistan is guaranteed to never come true.
Scratch your bald head and go to sleep.

Mohajirs Are People Too Honor of the Judiciary, now we want it; now we don't; it was all cool & dandy when the Not-so-sharief felt its OK but this time around it is the only issue that is to be settled to proclaim restoration of democracy

The attack on the Supreme Court

Pakistan grappled with its worst-ever constitutional crisis when an unruly mob stormed into the supreme court, forcing Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah to adjourn the contempt of court case against Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. Hundreds of Pakistan Muslim League supporters and members of its youth wing, the Muslim Students Front (MSF), breached the police cordon around the courthouse when defence lawyer S.M. Zafar was arguing his case.

A journalist rushed into the courtroom and warned the bench of an impending attack. Whereupon, the chief justice got up abruptly, thanked Zafar and adjourned the hearing. While judicial members left the courtroom soon after, the mob entered it shouting slogans, and damaged furniture.

The unruly mob, led by ruling party member from Punjab Sardar Naseem and Colonel (retired) Mushtaq Tahir Kheli, Sharif's political secretary, chanted slogans against the chief justice. The mob also beat up Pakistan Peoples Party senator Iqbal Haider. The police managed to restore normalcy after baton charging and teargassing the mob, both inside and outside the courthouse. The court which assembled at 9:45 a.m., could continue the proceedings for only about 45 minutes.

Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah requested President Farooq Leghari to take steps to post army or paramilitary soldiers in the Supreme Court building, and at the residences of the chief justice and other judges hearing the contempt case against Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

In his letter Justice Sajjad Ali Shah narrated the incidents which took place in the court. He stated that during the hearing of the contempt case against the prime minister and others, certain advocates stooped to rowdiness. He said some of the intruders were overheard saying that they wanted to take the CJ hostage.

The case was adjourned and the judges were taken to the chamber of the chief justice under police escort. He said after Thursday's rowdy scenes in the court room, he had directed the registrar to issue passes only to people concerned as usually government supporters jam-packed the court. The chief justice further said several people had informed him over telephone that a BBC report about the attack showed policemen doing nothing to stop the mob.

He said when court officials present at the gate asked the police as to why they were not preventing the crowd from entering the premises, they replied that since most of the protesters were government supporters, they were helpless.

Justice Sajjad said films were available with court officials to show how big the crowds were and how they broke into the court room. He further said court officials told him that when the mob was dispersing, they heard announcements that arrangements had been made for lunch at the Punjab House.

Mohajirs Are People Too Another Judicial account:
As Chief Justice of Supreme Court When Dr. Nasim Hasan Shah retired as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in 1994, Justice Saad Saud Jan should have rightly taken his place. But Ms Benazir Bhutto threw tradition overboard when she by-passed two senior judges and appointed Sajjad Ali Shah as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Later she was dismissed by President Farooq Leghari on charges of corruption and Sajjad Ali Shah along with 6 other members of the Supreme Court upheld this decision. Reading from a 12-page short order, Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah said

The presidential order contained enough substance and adequate material had been provided to conclude that the government could not be run in accordance with the provisions of the constitution and that an appeal to the electorate had become necessary.

Mohajirs Are People Too What restoration of Judiciary and what reinstatement of CJ, all these politicians have been lying all along and will continue to do so for their personal benefits.
A salute to those who look beyond personal interests and for collective interest of the nation, read all about it

"Our problems are peculiar to us, and we need to handle it our way. The only solution is accountability."

By: Tashbih Sayyed

According to independent observers, Mian Nawaz Sharif has an autocratic streak in his character that is maintained by his vengeful mentality. When Chief Justice Sajjad Ali Shah ordered the release of some civil servants who were arrested by order of the Prime Minister, Mian Nawaz Sharif, they automatically assumed that the Chief Justice was his rival. This became the starting point of a long tussle that culminated in an attack on the Supreme Court on November 28, 1997. Mian Nawaz Sharif took it upon himself to punish Justice Sajjad Ali Shah for his just and principled stand. This led to the establishment of special Courts, which were established in contravention of the Chief Justices judicious advice. These special courts, which were established to benefit the PM’s allies and supporters, eventually proved to be a humiliating blot on the face of justice in Pakistan. Later on when the Chief Justice wanted to fill the five vacant positions of judges to be able to carry out the business of dispensing justice in a speedy manner, the Prime Minister not only refused to grant the request but went ahead and abolished those vacancies altogether. He had to restore the positions under pressure but refused to fill them up.

The heavy mandate that Nawaz Sharif received from the people of Pakistan became his undoing. Thinking that because of an absolute majority in the assembly, he could get away with murder, he showed his true colors. One of the weapons that he employed extensively to disadvantage those he felt threatened by was creating rifts and dissension in their camps. In his self-imposed war against the Chief Justice he succeeded in dividing the judges into two camps. The group of judges that sided with the Prime Minister said openly that if Justice Sajjad Ali Shah give up trying cases against Mian Nawaz Sharif, they will accept him as the Chief Justice.

During this whole crisis, Justice Sajjad Ali Shah came out not only to be an extraordinary judicious mind but also a man of character that refused to compromise on principals in the face of extreme state pressures. He did not allow himself to be blackmailed by these moves. Justice Sajjad Ali Shah is credited for starting Judicial Activism in Pakistan. The legal experts are of the opinion that during this whole period when the Prime Minister was trying to humiliate him professionally, he remained within the framework of law. He did not lose his cool even when the government started trying to amend the constitution just to favor Nawaz Sharif. Mian Nawaz Sharif is not the only one who misunderstood him, but the other corrupt Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto was also misguided by his sense of duty and responsibility, thinking that he was partially in her favor. Her misguidance is explained by factors that led to the appointment of Mr. Justice Sajjad as chief justice by her, as narrated by a political commentator, “ The main reason appears to be the short-sighted, narrow-minded and parochial approach of Benazir and her government. She was perhaps carried away by his two dissents, every time apparently in favor of the PPP. In Ahmad Tariq Rahim's case, in which the dismissal of the Benazir government by President Ghulam Ishaq Khan in 1990 was challenged, Justice Sajjad was one of the two dissenting judges who held in his dissenting opinion that the order of the President to dissolve the National Assembly was invalid. He observed that the purpose of dissolution was to get rid of the government of the PPP.

In the Nawaz Sharif case, when the dismissal of his government by President Ishaq came under challenge, Justice Sajjad was the lone dissenter out of eleven judges on the bench. He, in his dissenting opinion, upheld Ishaq's order as valid and expressed disapproval of the way the then CJ (Dr. Shah) had announced at the very beginning of the proceedings that the nation would hear good news. He also made a very pungent remark at the end of his judgment saying that when two PMs from Sindh were removed under the discretionary powers of the president, the Supreme Court did not restore them but when the turn of a PM from Punjab came, the tables had been turned. These remarks/observations of Justice Sajjad in these cases must have rankled Benazir's mind while she was deciding on his appointment. She might have thought that he, being a Sindhi and a sympathizer of the PPP (as it appeared to her from these judgments), would go along and protect the interests of her government.

Subsequent events have repelled this impression and established Justice Sajjad as a man of his own. His remarks in those judgments reflected his own thinking and not a bias in favor of the PPP, as was perhaps assumed. The assumption must have been based on myopic thinking that has lately developed in Pakistan's political circles that if someone disagrees or opposes one major political party, even out of his honest belief, he is believed to belong to the opposite camp. It was in such mistaken belief that the PPP government took the fateful decision of appointing Justice Sajjad on June 5, 1994.” Today, when it is so difficult for the masses to find even one person in whom they can put their trust in, Justice Sajjad’s personality seems a life-saver. Pakistan Today, in this exclusive interview with him, tried to assess his views on the current situation in Pakistan after the proclamation of the state of emergency by Chief Of Army Staff, General Pervez Musharraf.

Pakistan Today: The present military chief executive is under a lot of pressure by the US especially to restore the civilian government, what is your comment?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: We have internal problems in the country, and they are of such a nature, that they have to be treated and solved first. Our main problem is corruption. Our economy has gone down because of deep rooted corruption in society. ..from bureaucrats and others. Eliminating corruption is crucial...any change to be brought about in the country, it must address corruption and accountability. Some time should be given to address these issues in great detail, so a recovery could be made to allow Pakistan to stand on its own two feet.

Pakistan Today: Are you in favor of a caretaker government?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: Yes, a caretaker government is very essential right now. A caretaker government or whatever they (Chief Executive) have in mind, and they have announced now will continue until all corruption is eliminated.

Pakistan Today: Even in caretaker governments, the same faces (corruption) seem to arise again. How can you prevent that?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: This is the main purpose of accountability. If accountability is done, and their is proof of corruption, then on that charge they can be disqualified, room will be made for new faces. This can only happen when accountability process is taken and applied to all without any discrimination. So, some time is required. We need to be able to stand on our own two feet. We have to be self-reliant. We need time for that. We need sympathy and support from other countries that are our friends. So we can be in a position to do something for our country. Our problems are peculiar to us, and we need to handle it our way. The only solution is accountability.

Pakistan Today: Do you feel that the actions of General Musharruf are justified?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: He is justified because this is the need of the hour. Otherwise, this country would disintegrate. The system needs to be reformed, without reform I do not think the country can survive.

Pakistan Today: Do you think that the Supreme Court can justify the General’s action?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: On the principle of doctrine of necessity, I think the changes in government can be justified. If there is no other alternative, no other way out, and this is the only solution available, then I think it is better to save the country, save the system then not.

Pakistan Today: If you are offered a position in the new government, will you take it?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: I am prepared to make any contribution or sacrifice that is offered to me to help save my country.

Pakistan Today: Can Pakistan withstand all the external pressures, if the IMF and the World Bank withhold money for example?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: I think if there is unity, and the intentions before us are lofty and noble, and we want an economic revival on the basis of self-reliance, there will be difficulties which we must withstand through coordination within our ranks, cooperation and good understanding.

Pakistan Today: What kind of ideas do you have for the new government?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: I hope that this government has good intentions in their reforms. If there is rule of law in the system, and people are treated without discrimination, and corruption is also eliminated through accountability, I think we will be able to succeed in our objective and we can attain self-respect in the community of nations. Pakistanis abroad should help their homeland by molding opinion abroad to support us. They need to foster help, and understanding, otherwise the country is going to break up. The time has come to reform our system. This malady can be cured only through cooperation from all others who are our friends.

Pakistan Today: Now, I would like to divert your attentions to comments to made by Benazir Bhutto, who has asked that elections be held within the next 90 days. What are your feelings on that?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: If elections are held within the next 90 days, then the reforms cannot be put into effect. Corruption cannot be eliminated. Real reforms can only take root through accountability which requires a longer period than 90 days. Naturally, politicians would not like to support accountability, because most of them will be found guilty. So, they want elections in the shortest amount of time so reforms cannot take place.

Pakistan Today: When you were the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and it came under attack by the Muslim League, there were at least three or four references against Nawaz Sharif pending in your court. Do you have any comments about their credibility?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: Yes, my anxiety at that time was, that the complaints contained allegations of corruption, and the cases should be looked into according to the law. Nawaz Sharif thought, because he was Prime Minister, the cases should not proceed against him. And, you see, the anxiety was that all should be treated equally under the law. He did not want those cases to be heard. That is because he did not believe in the rule of law. If there is no rule of law, then the system would collapse. This is what has happened in the country. there is no rule of law, no respect for it.

Pakistan Today: Your removal was illegitimate, do you think they should offer you your position back?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: It is too late. Unless they amend the constitution. And the constitution should not be amended for one person. I want my country to be saved. Pakistan is a great country. I want the country to survive. For that I am prepared to offer my services in any capacity because I want the system to be saved.

Pakistan Today: What problems do you foresee in the way for General Pervez Musharruf?

Justice Sajjad Ali Shah: I think a lot of pressure will be placed from other countries to return to democratic government in the shortest amount of time. Some more time will be required though, so they should be patient, because we want to solve our problems first with their cooperation.

Copyright © 1997 Pakistan Today

National Reconciliation Order Here you go read about some of the beneficiaries of the NRO Democracy Pakistan style. http://www.paktoday.com/shah.htm

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 83
Its definitely pleasing to understand that some of those mentioned are relevant to the readers/interactors here right on the Chowk.

Yes and I wish that my generation could have served the homeland of Pakistan like our elders did without ever having to resort to discussing division along ethnicities, like one solid lead wall adhering to each other as we are supposed to.

Had I attempted to mention each and everyone of those who acted for the cause of Pakistan I believe I would still be writing.

I thank you for taking the time to read through and mention the relevance.

Hakim Saeed(marhoom) when he operated a Matab in downtown I think it was on Bandar Road, he displayed his old shoes and sherwani in a showcase, when people inquired from him as why he displays those, he responded by saying that, one should never forget or be shameful of his past, this is where I began my career and I take pride in those things that I used in the days when it was hard to make a living; May he be blessed with the highest place in Janat-ul-Firdous, ameen.

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 95
There you go again, Punjab Bank and that too by a Mohajir Mian, his family was a prominent merchant family in the Kashmir (Shopian District) valley. His father, Muhammad Sharif, migrated in 1947 to Pakistan proper during the partition. Yet another Mohajir.
No matter what anyone says, money talks, specially in this context. While the term "baniya" principally refers to chamri jaye damri na jaye class specially the hinuds"
as such I maintained a difference of opinion and since you appear to "concur" we agree to disagree, but on an overall basis I found your article worth reading.

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 81
"And then there's the banya mentality that was brought along by the mohajirs..."
Well of course you quite accurate in your use of term Banya, a term which usually refers to Marwari Hindus, unless you are using the term to describe the successful career businessmen who were earnestly requested by the founder to become a Mohajir and they complied in the name of founding a seperate nation for the Muslims of India. From the first banker Habib of Habib Bank, to, Dawood, Adamjee, Bawany & Valike the most successful industrialist to Hakim Saeed a tabeeb and an intellect of international fame.
As such the burden of proof lies with you Janab Shobig_sifar as to which dictionary you look up before you inject this new term of Banya and associate it with Mohajirs?
Come clean Mr. Sifar

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 65
"Atif: when inviting guests to your rooh afza party, you may wish to stop referring to "mohajirs" as an ethnicity. Mohajirs is a bogus label created by mqm to create the us-vs-them mentality among its followers. A simple "Pakistani" should be enough. Unless you wish to extend your largesse to others and simply have an open house rooh afza party."
There we go again Tahir sahib, Mohajir as a term by used by our beloved Prophet to identify those who left their homes and all in Mecca and migrated to Madina, but, there were Ansar in Madina and you are wise enough so I dont have to repeat the entire story here, MQM a political party was born over 40 years after the Hijrat took place while Muslim League migrated with them twice, once when it was founded as the All India Muslim League and then it became Pakistan Muslm League as it laid the foundation for a separate homeland for the Muslims of India, knowing your intellect I can understand your throwing around that monkey wrench to overshadow the passion you carry for MQM in good humor, but, you know and a lot of people know that MQM just appeared on the horizon somewhere in the 80's, while the attempts to sabotage the original MQM by certain perpetrators who created the "MQM-Haqiqi" unfortunately while people take an aim at the MQM either they are not aware of the Haqiqi that was created to ghost the MQM original and all that the MQM-Haqiqi did so they can carry out all the negative acts which the people now blame on MQM.
As we discussed in the past I am neither a MQM loyalist nor have an urge to participate with them however I feel that before anyone blames a certain party or group of people one should educate themselves thoroughly in all aspects so that no injustice is committed in their speech or actions.
Mohajirs together comprise of all the people who migrated from various portions of India to establish a separate nation for the Muslims of India, their common medium is Urdu since they came together for a given cause that I am sure is also supported by you in the same spirit, as such the combined ethnicity of those Muslims who in all practical terms took the step to migrate to Mumlikat-e-Khudadad-e-Pakistan came to be known as Mohajirs, it was, is and will be, and should be so recognized by other ethnicities in Pakistan with regard as there is no reason to feel bad having Mohajirs around and those who feel they should conduct the so-called ethnic cleansing to exterminate the ethnic group of Mohajirs, should give up this dream as it will not serve anyone's interests in a positive manner and will only hurt none other than "ourselves".
Here Aatif wrote a beautiful account of supposedly a travel encounter that he experienced while he is the only one who knows if it is fact or fiction I take him on his word for his lovely experience and don't speculate as well as I appreciate his courage to come out and write his feelings as he observed although many on the Chowk may not appreciate his unbiased article as each individual has a different angle as to how they perceive while my in my perception Aatif has done a great service by his article and I request you to continue to write with the same true spirits as you didregardless of how bad some people feel your appreciation of your brief encounter with Karachi.

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 65
"tif: when inviting guests to your rooh afza party, you may wish to stop referring to "mohajirs" as an ethnicity. Mohajirs is a bogus label created by mqm to create the us-vs-them mentality among its followers. A simple "Pakistani" should be enough. Unless you wish to extend your largesse to others and simply have an open house rooh afza party."
There we go again Tahir sahib, Mohajir as a term by used by our beloved Prophet to identify those who left their homes and all in Mecca and migrated to Madina, but, there were Ansar in Madina and you are wise enough so I dont have to repeat the entire story here, MQM a political party was born over 40 years after the Hijrat took place while Muslim League migrated with them twice, once when it was founded as the All India Muslim League and then it became Pakistan Muslm League as it laid the foundation for a separate homeland for the Muslims of India, knowing your intellect I can understand your throwing around that monkey wrench to overshadow the passion you carry for MQM in good humor, but, you know and a lot of people know that MQM just appeared on the horizon somewhere in the 80's, while the attempts to sabotage the original MQM by certain perpetrators who created the "MQM-Haqiqi" unfortunately while people take an aim at the MQM either they are not aware of the Haqiqi that was created to ghost the MQM original and all that the MQM-Haqiqi so they can carry out all the negative acts which the people now blame on MQM.
As we discussed in the past I am neither a MQM loyalist nor have an urge to participate with them however I feel that before anyone blames a certain party or group of people one should educate ourselves thoroughly in all aspects so that no injustice is committed in their speech or actions.
Mohajirs together comprise of all the people who migrated from various portions of India to establish a seperate nation for the Muslims of India, their common medium is Urdu since they came together for a given cause that I am sure is also supported by you in the same spirit, as such the combined ethnicity of those Muslims who in all practical terms took the step to migrate to Mumlikat-e-Khudadad-e-Pakistan came to be known as Mohajirs, it was, is and will be, and should be so recognized by other ethnicities in Pakistan with regard as there is no reason to feel bad having Mohajirs around and those who feel they should conduct the so-called ethnic cleansing to exterminate the ethnic group of Mohajirs, should give up this dream as it will not serve anyone's interests in a positive manner and will only hurt none other than "ourselves".
Here Aatif wrote a beautiful account of supposedly a travel encounter that he experienced while he is the only one who knows if it is fact or fiction I take him on his word for his lovely experience and don't speculate as well as I appreciate his courage to come out and write his feelings as he observed although many on the Chowk may not appreciate his unbiased article as each individual has a different angle as to how they perceive while my in my perception Aatif has done a great service by his article and I request you to continue to write with the same true spirits as you didregardless of how bad some people feel your appreciation of your brief encounter with Karachi.

Mohajirs Are People Too Re: # 59
Ahaan! windows that are framed elsewhere other than a PC, I cant think of broken windows or I wont be able to reach out to the lovely gang at Chowk