The Non-Existent Tourist’s Guide To Pakistan Wonderful article Nadeem. In addition to being funny, this article shows a great amount of introspection and self-criticism. Something sorely lacking in south asia. People seem to prefer to blame the CIA, RAW, ISI, and god knows who else for their problems. Suicide bombings in Pakistan? It must be those dastardly Indians allying themselves with the jihadis to screw us over. Anything to avoid "humiliation".

"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Swat: Can the deal work? "the government "fail(ed) to step in"? according to this eyewitness account i mentioned, the ex-MP who was killed was desperately calling all his contacts (including modi) for help. there are pictures i have seen of police standing by doing nothing as mobs do their dirty work."

Not sure but did not my comment embody what you have said? That government failed to stop mob violence against a minority (i.e. the govt did nothing while the mobs did their dirty work).

Anyways enjoy the weekend.

"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Swat: Can the deal work? Re: # 35

TKhan,

I would agree. My point is that we should not be overly focused on income equality per se. There seems to be anathema to people getting wealthy among the progressive community. There is nothing wrong with that especially if you are contributing something to society (e.g. taxes). Such wealth benefits the whole of society by stimulating job creation as the newly rich demand goods and services. However, in the interim there will be greater inequality. The rich have gotten richer but the poor are not any poorer (actually they are better off than before just not as much as the rich or middle class).

"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Swat: Can the deal work? Re: # 46

I would disagree there tahmed. The violence in Gujurat was instance of communalism, sparked by a specific incident but due to many complex reasons, wherein the govt failed to step in and prevent violence against a specific minority thus nearly 2500 people, both muslims and hindus, died.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1856049.stm

The Holocaust on the other hand claimed 6 million lives and was not an incident of communalism. Rather it was the Nazis using the institutions of the state, mainly via the Schutzstaffel (SS), to exterminate an entire ethnicity.

The Gujarat govt did not set up concentration camps for muslims nor was it out to exterminate muslims.


"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Swat: Can the deal work? Re: # 9 TK,
Your link appears broken. I tried to cut and paste with no luck. I would disagree with you that income inequality is a primary cause of poverty. India's income disparity is not much different than most west european countries and is signifcantly less that the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gini_since_WWII.gif

The problem is the lack of wealth generators, although this being remedied by the rapid expansion of the middle class (e.g. IT,engineering services, pharma, etc.) to allow for the trickle down of such wealth to those in poverty when the middle class demand goods and services thereby creating jobs. I don't mean to say that having many wealthy people neccessarily helps in poverty reduction. If you are wealthy because you are adept at gaming the system then you are not a wealth generator but merely a parasite.

"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Swat: Can the deal work? Have any of the previous deals worked? The Pakistani army/government will learn a hard lesson that dealing with militants will only lead to disaster. Will Pakistan countenance a major city (e.g. Peshawar etc.) being de facto controlled by these militants?

http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1184614595/bctid1640 106821



"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

A Journey Interrupted: Being Indian in Pakistan by Farzana Versey Re: # 65

"on the one way mudslinging - i am not kidding, you are kidding yourself. if you find this hard to believe, check out the posts on this board starting from post 1 from the nutcase laddu who is obsessed with islam and pakistan, followed by arjun who is obsessed with islam and pakistan, and so on."

So what are you saying that since there are Indian posters that mudsling there are no Pakistani posters that mudsling? I did not differentiate between the two. See posts 24 and 37 for example at http://www.chowk.com/interacts/14316/1/0/a

Even Senora Qureshi recognizes this in her post 54 in that interact.

"on BJP you kid yourself again when you say BJP has been long gone from power. Historically, BJP has been the second largest party after Congress, was in power in the cen ter, remains the second largest party after Congress. Known criminals No, sir. We dont have anything close to this in Pakistan."

This sounds confusing the BJP are not part of the government but they are in power? Furthermore the religious parties that supported Musharraf up to this point may yet again be a force to reckoned with. Besides the BJP today is far more centric and less Hindu nationalist than it was before.

"Pakistan going down the shithole thank you for your good wishes. i dont know why so many indians are so spiteful, but i can only thank God we have to put up with people like you on the internet only."

When did I say I wished any ill will on Pakistan? My statement was that Pakistan was going down the shithole of religous zealotry thanks to a bunch of fundo-freaks, it is a statement of fact not of want or desire. To the contrary i think it is sad that all the religious BS is butchering Jinnah's vision of a secularist pakistan. If you want to ascribe underlying motives to my comments that fit your worldview that is your business, but as for me I say what mean and mean whay I say.

"Maybe one day Indians will realize that there is a better way to live than by holding on to 60 year old grudges and 1000 year old grudges, with spite rather than goodwill towards others. But I wont hold my breath waiting for that day!!"

I hold no grudges. In fact, being in my mid twenties, I honestly could not care less what happened 30 years ago let alone 60 years ago. Same goes for many of my atheist/agnostic Pakistani friends who rant far more than me agianst this religious plauge that is turning their motherland into a shithole. Sorry we prefer to pay attention to problems of the world instead of deluding ourselves into believeing otherwise in order to avoid painful truths.
"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

A Journey Interrupted: Being Indian in Pakistan by Farzana Versey Re: # 59
"from chowk it would seem the mudslinging is one way" -

You have got to be kidding me, one has to be blind to not see the numerous mindless and pointless anti-India or anti-hindu posts on this forum.

"from hindu extremists. and voters vote for hindu religious nuts of BJP in India"

I am often amused at how often the word hindu extremists are thrown around. I have never heard of suicide bombers killing people in the name of Hinduism nor militants fighting insurrections in the name of forming a Hindu state.

"while they give muslim religious nuts the boot in elections in pakistan."

So what are you saying? They are some voters in India who voted for the BJP but Pakistan is somehow different because the religious parties have been voted out of power? I am sure you are aware the BJP has been out of power for many years.

"so - it seems that rather than using your own intelligence you are merely repeating the propaganda of Indian governments from 1947 on"

What propoganda is that? That Pakistan is going down the shithole of religious zealotry thanks to to a bunch of fundo-freaks (a la Zia)? That is not propoganda that is seeing the writing on the wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYKacRc-Hjc
http://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=Pevce0WXfJI
"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Muslim Ghettoisation Re: # 446

Actually its pretty clear she is trying to pretend to be an american soldier, at 0:43-0:55 she states that she knew the other couple that broke in, that he was her Lieutenant and another person from his bridgade.
"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Democracy is the Best Revenge? "Pakistan does not need a fractured democracy – what is needed is justice and fairness. Rest will follow. Democracy is an outcome of a "just" society. Until then, we are only chasing an elusive dream."

"Just" socities are most certainly not formed from embracing a warped quasi-theocracy as unfortunately Pakistan has. Every theocracy or quasi-theocracy that is out there today (e.g. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Sudan) has had notorious issues with corruption.
"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

A Journey Interrupted: Being Indian in Pakistan by Farzana Versey Wow alot of meaningless mudslinging. So typical for Chowk. I for one thought it was a good article exposing the narrow tribalism of religious identity hardliners (Islamic or Hindu). The last thing India needs is it to turn from secular country to some quasi-religous state that Pakistan has become.
"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Muslim Ghettoisation Re: # 364 to Mureed

That 14 year old white girl you mention apparently is in the US army according to her comments. Obviously it is a joke. Unless you believe young girls like that serve in the armed forces.
"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Yet Another Immigrant Story Re: # 59

Thanks for the adivce. Will definitely have to go see the Mughal exhibit with some of my buddies. This city is definitely the best city in the world, lol. They spend gobs of money on making it look nice to impress everyone. When you are the air and space museum at Dulles don't forget to stop by the Enola Gay. It is the bomber that dropped the atom bomb on Hiroshima.
"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Yet Another Immigrant Story Re: # 54

"Anyway, at the risk of sparking further anti Immigrant-India/Pakistan-America rants, will end this with thanking all those also-immigrants who've warmly welcomed me."

But how can my life have meaning if i can't put other people down? :P

Anyways, welcome to the DC area...tis a lovely place. Make sure to check out the Udvar Hazy Air and Space Museum, my personal favorite, out near Dulles Airport.


"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Muslim Ghettoisation Re: # 213
“Thus far over a million have been butchered in Iraq...”

Yes but butchered by whom? As far as I can see it most of the violence against the Iraqis is committed by the insurgents.

“all the so called religo-ethnic violence you cite in Iraq was caused by the US invasion, not before, most of it is contrived.”

Contrived, you have to be kidding me. Sunni/Shia violence is not contrived its been around for over a thousand years. Pre-2003 Iraq was merely a totalitarian state that exsited for the benefit of a single ethnoreligous minority (Sunni Arabs) at the expense of all others. In that context such hatred and violence is not surprising.

“Suicide bombings in Pakistan are a post 9/11 US WOT phenomena.”

Your point? Does this along with Darfur, Lebanon, etc. change the fact that these guys behave like barbarians?

“Regarding the US global domination that has reduced half of the known world to an sub human existance of less than $1 a day, anyone can see what kind of results it produces.”

Again this is so typical, blaming everyone else for ones problems. How did countries like Japan, South Korea turn themselves into developed countries? They certainly did not do it by bitching at the West. The biggest problems for these countries is a population that sits on their asses and complains instead of actually trying to improve themselves.
"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler

Muslim Ghettoisation Re: # 245

"what is so great of being a hindu?"

Well, I think not being muslim is quite enough these days. At least Hindus are not heading toward being pariahs of the modern world due to the behavoir of fundamentalists.

http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=419121&Category=14 &subCategoryID=
http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=419121&Category=1 4&subCategoryID=


"I much prefer the sharpest criticism of a single intelligent man to the thoughtless approval of the masses."-- Johannes Kepler