yes, so speaks the great sage

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Kaal Bhayya,
If you are trying to highlight similarities between the Jahaliya Arabs and today's Hindus, of course one can find many. First of all, let me clearly state that Jahaliya Arabs were not completely evil people and, considering their contemporaries, could have been considered "moderate."
Examples of the Jahaliya Arabs include Abdul Muttalib, Abu Jahal, and even Abu Talib - grandfather and uncles of our Holy Prophet (PBUH).

The Jahaliya Arabs, and to some extent the "modern" Hindus, suffer from the same traits of weak belief, emphasis on rituals, and a keen eye on the commercial enterprise of religion. When this contraption of "popular" religion runs into faith-based and determined onslaught of divinely inspired righteousness, it's easy to predict the outcome.

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Kaale Khan,

Negative stereotyping of Jahaliyat was a propaganda by Mohammad. Mohammad was the most un-civilized, illiterate and brutal . His character was of a rapist, pedophile, liar, bandit and a charlatan- and it is real sad that every momeen wants to be like him.
On the contrary, the pagans were the most virtuous - the proof being that they kept their part of the truce - but mohammad kept on breaking them. Pagans of mecca only forced mohammad out and ostracized him - but mohammad out of his viciousness killed them in return .

The pagans were more virtuous than Mohammad and his cult that he created to push slaves. Pagan women were powerful - the proof being Khadija who was powerful and made Mohammad work under her. It was mohammad who actually brought the REAL JAHALIYAT as the cult of death and murder in the name of Islam!
Such jahaliyat is evident when the PAki 'moderates' send their jehadis to india to kill innocent - and they all praise their allah for killing the kufr-

Thook!!!

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"problem with islam is 'ex-communication' by people like yourself; that is what people get afraid of, being alone in the world; nothing whatsoever to do with personal belief sir"

Yes, that is an integral part of Islam and Islamic system. This is a simple and effective way of controlling error.

(Raw_dust had described something similar.)

It's probably late for you, and late for me as well.

Goodnight and bye to everyone. See later, zee.

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nb,

PPP Isn’t Convinced!
Posted by hamidm2 May 8, 2008 12:04 am
Re: # 70

ana,

..... now you are tarnishing the poor atheists !...... that is the problem with you religious types - mohammedans, christians and jews - you think atheists are worse than hindoos and even lower that mirzaees ...... no wonder nobody wants to fess up to being an honorable atheist .....

...... by the way, i was born a moslem and will die a moslem ..... whether i believe in all that nonsense about men and angels conversing in dark caves, is another story ..... like tahmed, i have my own interpretation of islam which transcends the koran and sunnah .....

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yes zeemax if you must know.

i am a human being with feelings, family values and virtues; we have already been down this path so no point going down there again.

point i am trying to make is that i am part of that network, through family. Even though i don't share that ideology, still means i enjoy popping over to my mum's on eid day for a family gettogether and the like; it is part of the wider culture that brings some focus in our lives.

btw, this is not exclusive to islam; why do you think when 45% of British pop doesn't belive in a god, almost 100% would celebrate christmas with their families?

problem with islam is 'ex-communication' by people like yourself; that is what people get afraid of, being alone in the world; nothing whatsoever to do with personal belief sir

i am beyond caring on this subject; my family(albeit begrudgingly) accept me for who i am; we are an extremely close family, no different to yours perhaps. all us siblings have a laough and a joke, my parents are the same..perfectly norm,al people....maybe if i am the only person left, i'd care even less

we discussed Faiz before; he was an avowed atheist (which you'd never admit...quote 'ana'al-huq'!); but that is how these intellectuals survive in that part of the world

just remember though, the world is changing fast..

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"all say different things and in some areas are lightyears apart from one another."

Cheema ji, you should genuinely give a chance to what zee and I have been saying all along.

Islam requires NO INTERNAL AGREEMENT on anything except some totally political commitments regarding boundaries.

Bhai, I am a Hindu right winger. I don't know what the confusion is, if that is important.

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No, Zee. I did not miss that, and wondered at the absolute power and political focus of Islam.

If you recall, once there was a discussion on whether to join in the durbar of echodada or in the court of hamidm sahib.

I love hamimdm sahib. His real beliefs are almost Hindu.

But only a moron would join him politically. I rejected him as feckless then, and reject him, lovingly, as feckless now.

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hamidm
zeemax, i don't think akcheema is confused at all
akcheema, once again we should be in our respective beds..g'night all

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Haha Eklavya, now you've managed to confuse akcheema Sahib as well!

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atheists can be given other menifestos the same as anyone can be given other menifestos, muslims included.

we, in pakistan, have had out fair share of 'menifestos', not least by the islamists

there are many here that beat this drum; all claim islam as the foundation for their convictions; all say different things and in some areas are lightyears apart from one another.

this will NEVER be discussed, mark my words

i am all for the muslim world to retain 'the core' as it were; same as other cultures do. But it should, and Insa'allah will be, confined to the sphere of personal rather than political life. However, a lot of blood (muslim blood, that is) will be spilt (at the hand of muslims, mind you) before that happens.

I am refering to a timespan of perhaps one to two hundred years here so perhaps not in our lifetimes!

PS: Eklavya, you are either an Islamist or something very much the opposite; i know where my bet is placed

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akcheema,

I read somewhere on one of the threads re someone wondering why atheists do not want to be considered apostates. I add here, they actually HATE being called apostates.

Even hamidm2, to everyone's surprise (ask ana) declared on FP the other day that he is a born Muslim and will die one. It's just that his version of Islam transcends Qura'an and Muhammad (hope you didn't miss that KaalChakra - it was quite a landmark)

akcheema Sahib ever wondered why is that?

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CA,

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My guess is that Islam in any case needs just a few 'Jihadis.' A relatively tiny number.

The rest of its adherents have to be Sufis, mod muslims, munafiqs, murtids.

Someone may correct me, but that has always been the case, and will always be so.

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cheema ji, an important point that santani made was a certain similarity between atheism and (existing/Hindutva) Hinduism.

Both are 'empty' categories, arrived at by negation.

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Atheists themselves might not have killed people or even been inspired by to kill them, under any manifesto.

But they can easily be given other manifestos.

Communist manifestos in each case that sanatani mentioned (I think).

And communist manifesto is a bloody manifesto.

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